[Old 2020 thread] NFL Free Agency/Trade Rumors:

[patsfanincleveland]

OK, please inform us.

Why would Thuney and the team agree to a long-term deal now? They couldn't agree last year.

This year is not last year.

AGAIN, the CAP is going down and teams have less money.

We have more money.

It's really that simple.

 

[skinnydog]

I showed a way that the Pats could have kept Brady last year. However, it would have required a 3 year deal and, as it turned out, BB wasn't willing to do that. Brady is going to be the exception to BB's rule of letting a player go a year early vs. years late.

I could be wrong, but weren't they $25m under the cap AFTER all the opt outs (which included Hightower at 10+)? At the time Brady made his decision, the Patriots were definitely NOT $25m under. Hell, they weren't even there a few weeks before camp when they signed Cam to $1m plus incentives. Players opted out between then and camp if I remember correctly.

Whatever moves the Pats could have made to keep Brady is one thing, but they didn't have the space to just keep him without additional moves, some of which may have cost them players, not added them.

No, the opt outs came later. They used the cap space to sign the McCourty’s and to tag Thuney. They were basically out of cap space after those signings. Then they basically didn’t make much of an effort to clear additional space cleared out some dead cap space and now have a good bit of cap space now. They could have done more last year to clear space to sign another player or 2, but chose not to.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

One thing to consider with a guy like Watson is where the cap will be after next year.

I don't know that there will be this remarkable rebound well into the 200's. The Superbowl was terribly rated.

Sports go in cycles; if the NFL is hitting a down cycle now, the cap could be more like:

2021: 180
2022: 200
2023: 210...

Just guessing here - I doubt it goes from 180 to 225 or something like that.

Which makes Watson's contract more like 20% of the damned cap! Good luck with that.

229 tabs in and 50-yard-line wins the thread.

It's not just one thing.....it's the most important thing because they ain't winning next year.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

No, the opt outs came later. They used the cap space to sign the McCourty’s and to tag Thuney. They were basically out of cap space after those signings. Then they basically didn’t make much of an effort to clear additional space cleared out some dead cap space and now have a good bit of cap space now. They could have done more last year to clear space to sign another player or 2, but chose not to.

tagging Thuney made no sense, the Pats were going to suck anyways, I guess BB knew he was already getting the maximum amount of comp picks this year, so he put Thuney's comp pick off for another year.

 

[venecol]

And Indy has more cap space than us, so that means they are out of the running. The Jags will pick Lawrence so they are all set. JETE have Darnold so it will be interesting to see what they do. With the 2nd pick I would move Darnold who will not increase in value going forward. That leaves the Pats has the highest cap space team without a QB.

Reich must really like Wentz to risk so much. Much be great at managing him.

They'll probably go after Godwin to give Wentz more weapons.

 

[skinnydog]

tagging Thuney made no sense, the Pats were going to suck anyways, I guess BB knew he was already getting the maximum amount of comp picks this year, so he put Thuney's comp pick off for another year.

I still don’t get the logic on that one. At the time it was viewed as a precursor to negotiating a long term contract. Maybe that was the plan and covid put things on hold.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Great stat from Field Yates, of the 22 QBs drafted in the first round from 2009-2016, none of them are still with the team that drafted them. So i decided to take a look:

2016 #1 Goff-traded to Det so the Rams could get out from under the contract extension they signed him to
2016 #2 Wentz-traded to the Colts so the Eagles could get out from under the contract extension they signed him to
2015 #1 Winston-Rookie contract expired with Bucs, back-up with Saints last year now a UFA
2015 #2 Mariota-Rookie contract expired, now a back-up with the Raiders
2014 #3 Bortles- Rookie contract expired, now a back-up for the Rams
2014 #32 Bridgewater-hurt, rookie contract expired, now the soon to be replaced starter for the Panthers
2013 No QBs taken in first round
2012 #1 Luck retired in 2018
2012#2 RG#- hurt, cut, now on 3rd team back-up with Baltimore
2012 #8 Tannehill- rookie contract expired, victim of Gase, now starter with Tennessee (maybe the best 1st rd QB of this period still standing)
2012 #22 Weedon, bust, out of football in 2018
2011 #1 Cam, nuf said
2011 #8 Locker, bust out of football by 2014
2011 #10 Gabbert, bust, just won a ring as Brady's back-up
2011 #12 Ponder, bust out of fooball by 2014, does have a hot wife
2010 #1 Bradford, hurt, traded a couple times, out of football by 2018
2010 #25 Tebow, everything you need to know about Josh McDaniels ability to scout NFL talent, out of football by 2012
2009 #1 Stafford, actually lived up to his billing, just traded to Rams
2009 #5 Dirty Sanchez, two words: butt fumble, out of football by 2019


So I would say out of all the QBs taken, Stafford, Newton and Luck worked out the best for the team that drafted them. the rest, eeeekkkk.

Speaking of Andrew Luck...............his wife did post he really misses the game.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Speaking of Andrew Luck...............his wife did post he really misses the game.

I won't believe it until I hear it from ......

 

[50-yard-line]

If they cut him after this year, they still owe him $15M guaranteed in 2022, which means he will have earned $40M from them for one year.

Am I reading this wrong?

Carson Wentz | NFL Contracts & Salaries | Spotrac.com

Carson Wentz contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.

www.spotrac.com

 

[50-yard-line]

tagging Thuney made no sense, the Pats were going to suck anyways, I guess BB knew he was already getting the maximum amount of comp picks this year, so he put Thuney's comp pick off for another year.

Made sense if BB wanted to field the best team he could (if Newton had played well, they would have made the playoffs), and it makes sense if they want to work a deal for him now going forward. Suppose Shaq Mason had gotten hurt and retired, for example. BB loves Thuney. The guy is always ready to play.

He's not gone yet.

 

[Sciz]

Am I reading this wrong?

Carson Wentz | NFL Contracts & Salaries | Spotrac.com

Carson Wentz contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.

www.spotrac.com

I guess it's more accurate to say that $15M of his 2022 salary will become guaranteed on March 19 of this year. It's not guaranteed yet, but it will be.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Am I reading this wrong?

Carson Wentz | NFL Contracts & Salaries | Spotrac.com

Carson Wentz contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.

www.spotrac.com

use this one

Carson Wentz Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Carson Wentz contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

if he is on the roster on 3/20/2021, $15 million of his 2021 salary becomes guaranteed. So they will complete the trade on 3/17/2021 and the COlts will have to pay him his $10 million dollar roster bonus and his 2020 (the pro rated signing bonuses have already been paid by Philly and goes onto their cap for 2021, and his $15 salary. SO if they do cut him after one year, they will still have to pay him a little over $40 (because $15 million of his 2022 salary is now guaranteed.

 

[50-yard-line]

use this one

Carson Wentz Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Carson Wentz contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

if he is on the roster on 3/20/2021, $15 million of his 2021 salary becomes guaranteed. So they will complete the trade on 3/17/2021 and the COlts will have to pay him his $10 million dollar roster bonus and his 2020 (the pro rated signing bonuses have already been paid by Philly and goes onto their cap for 2021, and his $15 salary. SO if they do cut him after one year, they will still have to pay him a little over $40 (because $15 million of his 2022 salary is now guaranteed.

Oo, ouch.

Bit of risk, but I think Indy has to take it. They're still young and playoff ready. they'll have a bunch of contracts coming off rookie deals in a couple of years.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

They'll probably go after Godwin to give Wentz more weapons.

I doubt it. PatsFans seems to love Godwin, but there will be lots of options. Tampa has salary cap room so bidding up for Godwin may not make sense after we see the final WR free agent list.

 

[venecol]

Made sense if BB wanted to field the best team he could (if Newton had played well, they would have made the playoffs), and it makes sense if they want to work a deal for him now going forward. Suppose Shaq Mason had gotten hurt and retired, for example. BB loves Thuney. The guy is always ready to play.

He's not gone yet.

Jesus, there was no way the Patriots were making the playoffs with all the key D players they lost in FA and the opt outs. The team lacked talent. New QB in a new system. No way.

Your rosy outlook and positivity is commendable though.

 

[DaBruinz]

Am I reading this wrong?

Carson Wentz | NFL Contracts & Salaries | Spotrac.com

Carson Wentz contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.

www.spotrac.com

It says that 15M of the 2022 salary becomes guaranteed on 3/19/2021. Meaning that they have to pay that regardless of whether or not he's on the team.

 

[50-yard-line]

Jesus, there was no way the Patriots were making the playoffs with all the key D players they lost in FA and the opt outs. The team lacked talent. New QB in a new system. No way.

Your rosy outlook and positivity is commendable though.

Jesus, they didn't know about those opt-outs when they franchised Thuney. And I think BB hopes to keep him.

I've been a fan of the Sox since 67, the Bruins since 67, the Celtics since the early 70's and the Patriots since Plunkett threw to Vataha. I remember when the Pats were 5-0 in 1974 and everyone was out of their minds with hope...they finished 7-7, which was still a "good" year. I know what it's like to be a Boston wait-til-next-year kind of guy.

Everything that could go wrong for the pats this year, went wrong. No money in FA, lost several key players at the last minute, lost Brady, had 8 opt-outs including several key players, Cam, COVID, COVID Cam, lost four weeks of practice mid-season, killer schedule with long road trips...

7-9 doesn't bother me. The reason they're being excoriated and assailed at every turn is because Brady won the SB. He joined a freaking all-star team and brought along a couple of guys who would never play here again in Gronk and Brown. Tampa was absolutely stacked with weapons (I knew Fournette wasn't done), and with a great D in addition. And the chips fell well - Washington in the first round; Rodgers blowing a 3rd down trot into the end zone; catching the Saints without Hill and with Brees clearly at the end, arm-wise; catching KC with a hobbled Mahomes and 3-back-ups on the OL... The chips fell well for them, and they were loaded.

Brady wasn't sniffing a trophy with the Patriots. I'm thrilled that he got it, but I won't use that against the Pats, as so many here seem determined to do.

After the last 20 years of INSANE success, yep, I have a rosy outlook. Playing with house money here. And unlike many, I don't think it was just Brady - at all. BB knows how to construct a team. He's rebuilt the Pats several times in the last two decades. He'll do it again.

I also believe that the new rule that you need a "super QB" to win has been exaggerated because of the success of the Pats organization, and because for many years, there was such a dearth of quality at that position - the colleges weren't playing a pro-game. There are plenty of good QBs coming out of college now, but many are getting wrecked because they're being thrown in over their heads and in win-now! situations.

So yep, I'll stay rosy. I've just witnessed a run I thought impossible in the NFL, with the strict salary cap and a draft designed to prevent continued success (and worse, with the Pats having picks stolen repeatedly by the cheaters in power). They owe me nothing, but I expect there's still great things to be written.

 

[Ring 6]

Actually the trades do.

First, the first excuse was he needed better protection so Houston went for broke with picks and now have a 20+ million CAP left tackle.

Hopkins wanted out because he was only making $13 M so the excuse last year was he lost his best weapon that's going to cost up to $25M.

I don't get the Hopkins thing because Nink told me this morning the NFL players will accept playing in Kolyma with an occasional cup of gruel just to play with a true franchise QB.

Didn't Houston get that note?

Let's just end it at you think he is a vastly better QB than I do and how we interpret the numbers is considerably different and move on to the next subject at hand..

What are you talking about?
Trades made by former executives has no impact on whether you place value on the an position and think the best way to build a winner is not have a qb.
If this whole bizarre back and forth was about you thinking Watson isn’t a good qb, why waste your time camouflaging it with silly arguments.

 

[Deus Irae]

Brady wasn't sniffing a trophy with the Patriots.

People continue to say this, despite all history to the contrary. It's truly fascinating to watch as the excuse makers completely ignore history in an attempt to defend the loss of Brady.

 

[Ring 6]

2020 was the perfect storm. I firmly believe the years of picking in the late 20s and early 30s finally caught up with them. Sure BB missed on high picks like Easley, Dawson, etc but everyone misses on picks and if you are always picking outside of the 20s you will miss on more picks make outside of the top 15ish. Additionally teams picking in the late 20s and 30s miss out on that blue-chip, starter-ready talent.

Additionally the Pats always had Grade A talent and it's extremely difficult for a rookie to play here because of the loaded rosters they had. The fact they've hit on UFAs (thanks to Bill and his scouting & player development) and cast-offs (Branch, Van Noy, etc) is incredible both from a production and cap standpoint. Couple that with the opt-outs there was no way in hell Bill could field a championship -caliber team with Tom at $15m or a playoff team with Tom at $30m

So rebuilding was the route he chose and nonetheless Tom did not/would not want to be part of a rebuild job or a 9-7 team.

Bill did the prudent thing. He let Tom go.

Wait, context is allowed here????

Adding to what you said, given the fact that your 1s are pretty much 2s and your 2s are pretty much 3s and you have a stocked team, taking greater risk in the draft makes sense.

Belichick really expected Brady back. And I’m sure he would have been thrilled to have him because you only have to elevate the team so far when you know you’ve got the GOAT to get them over the top in the clutch. This team wasn’t going to win a SB but with Brady you still had the chance that if you got lucky and got in position he could make the play or the drive to make the difference.
That said since it was going to end at some point soon, that point being now was not bad timing.