[Old 2020 thread] NFL Free Agency/Trade Rumors:

[patsfanincleveland]

A lot of free agents are going to be disappointed during a year when the cap is contracting by about 20%.

It's amazing how much posters are oblivious to that point. Media also seems to have that issue.

It's compounded by the fact that so many teams are in CAP hell.

The cavalier opinion that it's so easy to just extend or go bonus route is really dicey in view of what the CAP will be in a few years.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

If you have the QB position in good shape that’s the most important piece. Why would you give away the most important piece? Then you have to built the team AND solve the qb problem.

There are additional items Caserio has to consider.

The dude is miserable.

They did go 4-12. For such a difference maker, he really didn't make much of a difference.

Based on overthecap his 2021 cap hit is $15M.

Then it goes into the $40M orbit for several years.

overthecap projections are based on 2022 CAP at $226M and 2023 at $240M. Is that realistic?

What's the haul of picks that can be had?

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

There are additional items Caserio has to consider.

The dude is miserable.

They did go 4-12. For such a difference maker, he really didn't make much of a difference.

Based on overthecap his 2021 cap hit is $15M.

Then it goes into the $40M orbit for several years.

overthecap projections are based on 2022 CAP at $226M and 2023 at $240M. Is that realistic?

What's the haul of picks that can be had?

But Caserio isn't BB, right now people are looking at BB and calling him a moron for letting his QB walk. Imagine if you are a new GM, and the rest of your career will be defined by what Watson does with his new team, and that the picks you make with the picks traded for him will always be looked at as "this is what we got for Watson?".

Its a complete no wins scenario for Caserio, he has to somehow make Watson happy, may I suggest trading for DeAndre Hopkins, I'm sure Arizona will take a second round pick and a couple of fourth rounds picks for him

 

[Sciz]

Wonder if DT Jurrell Casey will be available at a decent rate, considering his age/injury last season....? He is exactly what we need in terms of a penetrating 3-tech DT.

For a lot of these older guys coming off injuries or just bad seasons, I think the biggest question is whether they can get more than the veteran minimum salary benefit or not. A team could pay him $1,212,500 (maximum of $137,500 in bonuses in addition to minimum salary) and have the cap hit only be $987,500, but if they pay him $1,212,501 then his cap hit is actually $1,212,501. It's almost like getting 5 veterans for the cost of 4, which is almost insignificant to most teams most years, but will be needed this year.

And frankly, it also wouldn't surprise me if a lot of these guys just opt for retirement rather than playing on those contracts. Casey has $70M+ in career earnings and would be 32 years old when he's looking for his next real payday in 2022, and even that is contingent on staying healthy and playing well in 2021.

(Beau Allen falls into this group too. While I hope he sticks around and contributes next season since they need multiple guys with his skill set, it wouldn't surprise me if they release him and then try to re-sign him to a contract like this in order to get the cap benefit.)

 

[upstater1]

There are additional items Caserio has to consider.

The dude is miserable.

They did go 4-12. For such a difference maker, he really didn't make much of a difference.

Based on overthecap his 2021 cap hit is $15M.

Then it goes into the $40M orbit for several years.

overthecap projections are based on 2022 CAP at $226M and 2023 at $240M. Is that realistic?

What's the haul of picks that can be had?

Think you're underestimating the impact of having a coach in meltdown mode. It happened the BB at Cleveland. Players stop playing. Can't be blamed on Watson. I really like him as a QB because he stays in the pocket and goes through his progressions.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

But Caserio isn't BB, right now people are looking at BB and calling him a moron for letting his QB walk. Imagine if you are a new GM, and the rest of your career will be defined by what Watson does with his new team, and that the picks you make with the picks traded for him will always be looked at as "this is what we got for Watson?".

Its a complete no wins scenario for Caserio, he has to somehow make Watson happy, may I suggest trading for DeAndre Hopkins, I'm sure Arizona will take a second round pick and a couple of fourth rounds picks for him

What part of 4-12 doesn't register with you? If Watson could elevate the team by himself........he's obviously keeping it a secret and to himself because he certainly doesn't show he could do it like....on the football field.

What part of a $40M CAP hit 2022 to infinity doesn't register when that contract was negotiated thinking 2023 was going to be a $240M CAP year?

Did you see the TV ratings for the Super Bowl and regular season? They should have been through the roof. Were they?


Here's something to impress me. Go talk to your boi in Tampa and tell him to get Jacksonville to forgo the #1 pick and go play there.

Let's see what happens then.

Here's a hint, if you can't build a quality, balanced team, it doesn't matter who plays QB.

Guess what? Based on where Houston is now.....that ain't happening. Especially when the CAP barely budges up. As it stands now, that contract is an albatross around their neck.

But if they trade him.....they don't have a "franchise" QB.

So f'in what? If you scout and draft, you'll find a franchise QB and have resources to build a quality football team.


As far as Hopkins goes.....do you have any idea what his CAP hits are? They are through the roof. He mouthed his way of of Houston because he was only making $13 Million.

Guess what? Arizona pays him a ballizion and their offense sucked.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Think you're underestimating the impact of having a coach in meltdown mode. It happened the BB at Cleveland. Players stop playing. Can't be blamed on Watson. I really like him as a QB because he stays in the pocket and goes through his progressions.

Unfortunately for you, your thinking is dreadfully wrong.

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

What part of 4-12 doesn't register with you? If Watson could elevate the team by himself........he's obviously keeping it a secret and to himself because he certainly doesn't show he could do it like....on the football field.

What part of a $40M CAP hit 2022 to infinity doesn't register when that contract was negotiated thinking 2023 was going to be a $240M CAP year?

Did you see the TV ratings for the Super Bowl and regular season? They should have been through the roof. Were they?


Here's something to impress me. Go talk to your boi in Tampa and tell him to get Jacksonville to forgo the #1 pick and go play there.

Let's see what happens then.

Here's a hint, if you can't build a quality, balanced team, it doesn't matter who plays QB.

Guess what? Based on where Houston is now.....that ain't happening. Especially when the CAP barely budges up. As it stands now, that contract is an albatross around their neck.

But if they trade him.....they don't have a "franchise" QB.

So f'in what? If you scout and draft, you'll find a franchise QB and have resources to build a quality football team.


As far as Hopkins goes.....do you have any idea what his CAP hits are? They are through the roof. He mouthed his way of of Houston because he was only making $13 Million.

Guess what? Arizona pays him a ballizion and their offense sucked.

Watson’s cap number after 2021 and beyond are terrible. He will start to complain again like Wilson. Again these players don’t understand that when you take a huge chunk of the cap it’s hard to get players.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Watson’s cap number after 2021 and beyond are terrible. He will start to complain again like Wilson. Again these players don’t understand that when you take a huge chunk of the cap it’s hard to get players.

A large chunk of patsfans has that exact same problem.

 

[Ring 6]

There are additional items Caserio has to consider.

The dude is miserable.

They did go 4-12. For such a difference maker, he really didn't make much of a difference.

Based on overthecap his 2021 cap hit is $15M.

Then it goes into the $40M orbit for several years.

overthecap projections are based on 2022 CAP at $226M and 2023 at $240M. Is that realistic?

What's the haul of picks that can be had?

I don’t understand. Since you were 4-12 you feel the best way to improve is to dump your best player who also plays the most important position?
Why wouldn’t you build around him instead of build without him, leaving a massive hole at the most important spot?
As far as the contract, that’s what top qbs get paid now.

 

[The Brandon Five]

I don’t understand. Since you were 4-12 you feel the best way to improve is to dump your best player who also plays the most important position?
Why wouldn’t you build around him instead of build without him, leaving a massive hole at the most important spot?
As far as the contract, that’s what top qbs get paid now.

I feel like there is another team that is in that same position but can't put my finger on it.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

I don’t understand. Since you were 4-12 you feel the best way to improve is to dump your best player who also plays the most important position?
Why wouldn’t you build around him instead of build without him, leaving a massive hole at the most important spot?
As far as the contract, that’s what top qbs get paid now.

"Now" is the optimal word.

If you think he's worth it, that's fine. I respect your opinion to believe that way.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

What part of 4-12 doesn't register with you? If Watson could elevate the team by himself........he's obviously keeping it a secret and to himself because he certainly doesn't show he could do it like....on the football field.

What part of a $40M CAP hit 2022 to infinity doesn't register when that contract was negotiated thinking 2023 was going to be a $240M CAP year?

Did you see the TV ratings for the Super Bowl and regular season? They should have been through the roof. Were they?


Here's something to impress me. Go talk to your boi in Tampa and tell him to get Jacksonville to forgo the #1 pick and go play there.

Let's see what happens then.

Here's a hint, if you can't build a quality, balanced team, it doesn't matter who plays QB.

Guess what? Based on where Houston is now.....that ain't happening. Especially when the CAP barely budges up. As it stands now, that contract is an albatross around their neck.

But if they trade him.....they don't have a "franchise" QB.

So f'in what? If you scout and draft, you'll find a franchise QB and have resources to build a quality football team.


As far as Hopkins goes.....do you have any idea what his CAP hits are? They are through the roof. He mouthed his way of of Houston because he was only making $13 Million.

Guess what? Arizona pays him a ballizion and their offense sucked.

Obviously you missed the sarcasm of my proposed Hopkins trade, that is what Houston got back in return for him.

As for Watson, trading him would save cap space in the future, but it would actually increase his 2021 cap number by @ $6 million (which coincidentally would eat up all of Houston's remaining cap space for 2021). QBs cost money, the days of Brady taking a less than market vaule contract are over. There are numerous cap tricks that can make his future numbers go down, but he is signed through 2025.

MY point was Caserio is in a no win situation, he can't trade Watson, because if he suceeds elsewhere, he is always going to be known as the guy who traded away Watson (much as BB is always going to be known as the guy who let Brady slip away). Brady is 43, Watson is 26. If Caserio trades him Watson will be in the legaue much longer than Caserio will be. Caserio needs to find a way to fix this, and trading Watson is not it.

 

[Sicilian]

Can’t be, I was assured in another thread that even though the Pats were 25 million under the cap last year they were in cap hell and had no way to bring Brady back and add a weapon or 2 for him to throw to.

I could be wrong, but weren't they $25m under the cap AFTER all the opt outs (which included Hightower at 10+)? At the time Brady made his decision, the Patriots were definitely NOT $25m under. Hell, they weren't even there a few weeks before camp when they signed Cam to $1m plus incentives. Players opted out between then and camp if I remember correctly.

Whatever moves the Pats could have made to keep Brady is one thing, but they didn't have the space to just keep him without additional moves, some of which may have cost them players, not added them.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Obviously you missed the sarcasm of my proposed Hopkins trade, that is what Houston got back in return for him.

As for Watson, trading him would save cap space in the future, but it would actually increase his 2021 cap number by @ $6 million (which coincidentally would eat up all of Houston's remaining cap space for 2021). QBs cost money, the days of Brady taking a less than market vaule contract are over. There are numerous cap tricks that can make his future numbers go down, but he is signed through 2025.

MY point was Caserio is in a no win situation, he can't trade Watson, because if he suceeds elsewhere, he is always going to be known as the guy who traded away Watson (much as BB is always going to be known as the guy who let Brady slip away). Brady is 43, Watson is 26. If Caserio trades him Watson will be in the legaue much longer than Caserio will be. Caserio needs to find a way to fix this, and trading Watson is not it.

My apologies for missing the sarcasm. That was never the intention.

He's faced with the the possibility that if he makes this trade, his skills give him the OPPORTUNITY to turn it around vs near certainty that the facts if left in place will never allow.

In the end, one always has to trust one's ability to go in a different direction and realize that's all you can control.

On the other hand, maybe he does have a plan and will keep him.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

I could be wrong, but weren't they $25m under the cap AFTER all the opt outs (which included Hightower at 10+)? At the time Brady made his decision, the Patriots were definitely NOT $25m under. Hell, they weren't even there a few weeks before camp when they signed Cam to $1m plus incentives. Players opted out between then and camp if I remember correctly.

Whatever moves the Pats could have made to keep Brady is one thing, but they didn't have the space to just keep him without additional moves, some of which may have cost them players, not added them.

I'm pretty sure it was that dude who is arguing we were $25M under BEFORE Thuney and McCourty signed.

 

[scott99]

I could be wrong, but weren't they $25m under the cap AFTER all the opt outs (which included Hightower at 10+)? At the time Brady made his decision, the Patriots were definitely NOT $25m under. Hell, they weren't even there a few weeks before camp when they signed Cam to $1m plus incentives. Players opted out between then and camp if I remember correctly.

Whatever moves the Pats could have made to keep Brady is one thing, but they didn't have the space to just keep him without additional moves, some of which may have cost them players, not added them.

This, times 1000. I am completely amazed at the complete stupidity of people, on this board and in social media/mainstream media who blame Belichick for not “keeping” Brady. The Pats had like a dollar sixty five in cap space when Brady signed with the Bucs. It’s not like they were able to miraculously come up with 25 mill in cap space to sign him at that moment. Can’t create cap space out of thin air.

Can’t believe people don’t understand that. For Christ’s sake, I’m not Einstein and I understood it.

 

[Sicilian]

This, times 1000. I am completely amazed at the complete stupidity of people, on this board and in social media/mainstream media who blame Belichick for not “keeping” Brady. The Pats had like a dollar sixty five in cap space when Brady signed with the Bucs. It’s not like they were able to miraculously come up with 25 mill in cap space to sign him at that moment. Can’t create cap space out of thin air.

Can’t believe people don’t understand that. For Christ’s sake, I’m not Einstein and I understood it.

I think they absolutely could have created the space to do it, but it wasn't going to come without cost. Could have been losing Thuney because you couldn't franchise him (which would have rightfully pissed Brady off anyway), or losing McCourty which would have been disastrous now knowing we were losing Chung too. Suddenly the backend of our secondary is like the U Mad game where we had a rookie Tavon Wilson and Nate Ebner playing S. All this to say that, if Brady was upset about the players around him in 2019, I highly doubt he was ready to sign on the dotted line (even for the amount that he got in Tampa) knowing that the team was likely going to have LESS talent on it in 2020.

 

[mgteich]

I think that he and the Pats could get a 3-4 year deal done that would keep their best O-linemen in Red, White, and Blue. He is arguably the best O-linemen they've had since Bruce Armstrong. Yes, even better than Mankins.

OK, please inform us.

Why would Thuney and the team agree to a long-term deal now? They couldn't agree last year.

 

[mgteich]

I think they absolutely could have created the space to do it, but it wasn't going to come without cost. Could have been losing Thuney because you couldn't franchise him (which would have rightfully pissed Brady off anyway), or losing McCourty which would have been disastrous now knowing we were losing Chung too. Suddenly the backend of our secondary is like the U Mad game where we had a rookie Tavon Wilson and Nate Ebner playing S. All this to say that, if Brady was upset about the players around him in 2019, I highly doubt he was ready to sign on the dotted line (even for the amount that he got in Tampa) knowing that the team was likely going to have LESS talent on it in 2020.

Are we saying that Thuney was more important to the team than Brady?