Game Day Thread Official Postgame Thread- Bills @ Pats

[RobertWeathers]

How long has Lazar worked for the Pats?

This year

 

[upstater1]

Was that the year when Tuna Crap was smart enough to get Bill here for his defense but evil enough to stab the Pats in the back?


I was actually talking about the good players who left and went on to play more, not the stiffs or injured players that he let go. There's probably oodles of those players out there.

How far back would you like me to go? Should I go back to Seymour and Ty Law or stay more recent with Amendola and Gronk? I'm pretty sure Welker was chased away too. There may be others also.

In the end though, Brady was indeed the biggest blunder of them all. And Bill let him go for nothing and had no QB to take his place. BRILLIANT!

Yes, 1996 was the year he brought Belichick on. People outside New England are generally unaware of a few facts about that year. One, Parcells had no faith that he could turn the Patriots around. That's why he went to Kraft in the month AFTER the end of the 1995 season and asked that Kraft remove the buyout clause from his contract and also reduce the contract length to one year. Kraft took the hint. The only reason Parcells would request that is he wanted out. This is the whole reason Parcells was not given ultimate authority over the draft. Why would anyone think they deserved final authority over franchise decisions when they were planning on leaving? It's never been revealed whether Kraft was aware that Parcells talked to the Jets about taking over PRIOR to the 1996 season. I just assume that Kraft found out.

One other thing: Kraft wanted to hire Belichick right away in 1996. Kraft and Belichick spent 4 hours talking outside the stadium in Kraft's car. Reporters wrote about it at the time. No one knows why Belichick didn't take the job, but the rumors inside the Patriots was that Belichick was offered the job. I'm assuming Belichick didn't take it out of loyalty. There was so much talent on that 1996 team that I bet Belichick would've won a Super Bowl before 2001 making all of these discussions moot.

As for the second part of your post, I thought you were talking about the last few years. I have no problems with letting those top players go. We went to 5 Super Bowls after they left and we won 3. So letting Seymour and Law go worked out for us. Gronk was totally out of football after the Super Bowl year.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

And he wouldn't win unless he went to a team with good to great players. That's what's needed to win.

At the end of August, maybe the beginning of September, NFL teams reduce their roster to 53 players by picking the better players and releasing the weaker players. The reason teams do this is because there is a higher % chance of winning with the better players. It is common around the whole league because everyone agrees better players increase their chance of winning.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yes, 1996 was the year he brought Belichick on. People outside New England are generally unaware of a few facts about that year. One, Parcells had no faith that he could turn the Patriots around. That's why he went to Kraft in the month AFTER the end of the 1995 season and asked that Kraft remove the buyout clause from his contract and also reduce the contract length to one year. Kraft took the hint. The only reason Parcells would request that is he wanted out. This is the whole reason Parcells was not given ultimate authority over the draft. Why would anyone think they deserved final authority over franchise decisions when they were planning on leaving? It's never been revealed whether Kraft was aware that Parcells talked to the Jets about taking over PRIOR to the 1996 season. I just assume that Kraft found out.

One other thing: Kraft wanted to hire Belichick right away in 1996. Kraft and Belichick spent 4 hours talking outside the stadium in Kraft's car. Reporters wrote about it at the time. No one knows why Belichick didn't take the job, but the rumors inside the Patriots was that Belichick was offered the job. I'm assuming Belichick didn't take it out of loyalty. There was so much talent on that 1996 team that I bet Belichick would've won a Super Bowl before 2001 making all of these discussions moot.

As for the second part of your post, I thought you were talking about the last few years. I have no problems with letting those top players go. We went to 5 Super Bowls after they left and we won 3. So letting Seymour and Law go worked out for us. Gronk was totally out of football after the Super Bowl year.

I heard a bit differently. In 1993 and 94 Tuna had complete player control. In 95 Kraft made Grier and Wazynczk's roles role more prominent. Kraft assured Bill he had final personnel say in 95 but Tuna saw what was evolving which is why he wanted to shorten his deal. Who knows I guess.

The whole BB for 97 thing is still confusing. In The 2 Bills Bob says he felt it was too soon for BB as he wanted to remove the Tuna stink but he clearly was interested in hiring BB back then

 

[upstater1]

Not sure an entire revamp. Strange Andrews and Onwenu might be OK next year, and Hines and Russey might be OK too. Not an outstanding group but above average. No need to revamp an above average group. Now the tackles are another issue. The tackles are so bad they make the whole line look incompetent. Need both tackles redone with T Brown and Cajuste as backups.

Don't think we will see a #1. How good is Thornton next year? Agholor and Bourne can go and add another I agree.

Not a dumb guy. Can't be that bad if his defense was rated #1. Maybe not great, but you are a bit overboard.

Unfortunately, I agree with you. Mac reads things well, and is very accurate. He is starting to move better, but for some reason he does not progress through his reads, even though he can (you call it field vision). I am not sure he is soft, but he does not look like he has "it" like you note.

Why don't you also apologize when you are dishonest?

Are people looking at Mac's unwillingness to go for running 1st down's as physical softness?

I'm not sure when he slid the 1st time in recent games, but I do know it came after he dove head first for a 1st down and took a shot to the head. There was a penalty called on that. But the announcers were wondering why Mac wasn't taken to the concussion tent.

I'm only speculating but I bet anything that the Patriots coaches told him never to do that again. Which explains why he's sliding.

I dont interpret that as physical softness

 

[upstater1]

I heard a bit differently. In 1993 and 94 Tuna had complete player control. In 95 Kraft made Grier and Wazynczk's roles role more prominent. Kraft assured Bill he had final personnel say in 95 but Tuna saw what was evolving which is why he wanted to shorten his deal. Who knows I guess.

The whole BB for 97 thing is still confusing. In The 2 Bills Bob says he felt it was too soon for BB as he wanted to remove the Tuna stink but he clearly was interested in hiring BB back then

I wish I could call up the story about Parcells talking to the Jets about becoming their HC after 1995. That would tell us a lot about the whole affair. Because it's a fact that Parcells thought he had total control going into the 1996 draft. When he realized he didn't (the Patriots decided on Terry Glenn instead of Parcells' guy [Cedric Jones]) that's when Parcells stormed out of the draft and slammed the door. He wouldn't have done that if he was under the impression that he was the one in charge of buying the groceries. So... Parcells asked out of his contract BEFORE losing control of personnel.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I wish I could call up the story about Parcells talking to the Jets about becoming their HC after 1995. That would tell us a lot about the whole affair. Because it's a fact that Parcells thought he had total control going into the 1996 draft. When he realized he didn't (the Patriots decided on Terry Glenn instead of Parcells' guy [Cedric Jones]) that's when Parcells stormed out of the draft and slammed the door. He wouldn't have done that if he was under the impression that he was the one in charge of buying the groceries. So... Parcells asked out of his contract BEFORE losing control of personnel.

Yep that aligns with my understanding. Tuna was blindsided on Draft Day when Bob overruled him as he still thought he had personal control.

The NyJ/95 rumor I don't remember. Makes sense at Rich Kotite was hired in 95.

 

[Joker]

Yep that aligns with my understanding. Tuna was blindsided in Draft Day when Bob overruled him as he still thought he had personal control.

The NyJ/95 rumor I don't remember. Makes sense at Rich Kotite was hired in 95.

I have PTSD from that entire stretch of ridiculous mis-management.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I have PTSD from that entire stretch of ridiculous mis-management.

Me too. Just a f-up after f-up.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I wish I could call up the story about Parcells talking to the Jets about becoming their HC after 1995. That would tell us a lot about the whole affair. Because it's a fact that Parcells thought he had total control going into the 1996 draft. When he realized he didn't (the Patriots decided on Terry Glenn instead of Parcells' guy [Cedric Jones]) that's when Parcells stormed out of the draft and slammed the door. He wouldn't have done that if he was under the impression that he was the one in charge of buying the groceries. So... Parcells asked out of his contract BEFORE losing control of personnel.

It wasn’t Cedric Jones as he was picked 5th and Glenn was picked 7th. So storming out and slamming the door over that doesn’t make sense. It was Tony Brackens Parcell’s wanted.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I have PTSD from that entire stretch of ridiculous mis-management.

Me too. Just a f-up after f-up.

Here. Here.

 

[upstater1]

It wasn’t Cedric Jones as he was picked 5th and Glenn was picked 7th. So storming out and slamming the door over that doesn’t make sense. It was Tony Brackens Parcell’s wanted.

His pick going in was Cedric Jones.

Tony Brackens is the guy he wanted after that, but the main guy he wanted was Cedric Jones.

Parcells Steals the Spotlight / Coach's future is as hot a topic as game

Bill Parcells, the Patriots' coach, has one of the biggest egos in football.

www.sfgate.com

I should add that the reason why Parcells was still in the rom UNTIL the Glenn pick is that Kraft overrode Grier and agreed with Parcells that they would take Cedric Jones. It wasn't until the Giants screwed up royally and took Jones that the whole Kraft-Parcells thing blew up.

The Giants themselves had a blowup over Jones because the personnel guys had Simeon Rice as their main guy and Jonathan Ogden second. Reeves demanded Cedric Jones and caused a blow-up with the Giants. In a way, Reeves allowed us to take Glenn, which lead to a Super Bowl berth. I believe Parcells was gone regardless. He wanted to take the Jets to the Super Bowl to stick it to George Young. It had nothing to do with Kraft.

 

[State]

Are people looking at Mac's unwillingness to go for running 1st down's as physical softness?

I'm not sure when he slid the 1st time in recent games, but I do know it came after he dove head first for a 1st down and took a shot to the head. There was a penalty called on that. But the announcers were wondering why Mac wasn't taken to the concussion tent.

I'm only speculating but I bet anything that the Patriots coaches told him never to do that again. Which explains why he's sliding.

I dont interpret that as physical softness

He has a habit of sliding just short of the marker when it looks like he should go for it.

 

[Twentytothree]

I see other QBs doing that. Didn't Kordell Stewart do it for a big gain against the Pats in a playoff game a few years back?

2001??

 

[Twentytothree]

He has a habit of sliding just short of the marker when it looks like he should go for it.

Maybe, but there's no doubt he would have been lit up if he had tried. I guess you're ok with Zappe taking over.

 

[upstater1]

He has a habit of sliding just short of the marker when it looks like he should go for it.

??

This is what I'm talking about in the post you're responding to. It started after he as whacked in the head

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

I can't take the rebuild comments seriously

Especially with how we've regressed this year, despite the roster actually being better than last year in many regards.

And with how much they spent in 2020

Bills were in the title game by Allen's 3rd year

We'll see what the Dolphins fo this year
Bengals were in the Super Bowl in Burrow's second year

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

Jimmy G, Bill O’brien & drafting OL would improve the team the most IMO. They could trade Mac to the saints for their 2nd round pick since they don’t have their first in this draft.

Stevenson would be an animal with a fixed OL & a return to the gap run scheme. PA off of it would be pretty good. Im with you & @Ross12 on this one.

With an extra second round pick BB could draft another tyquan thornton

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

Out of that group - OL, Patricia, WRs & Mac - Andrews, Onwenu & Strange should and will stay; however we need TWO starting-caliber Left Tackles: Lose/Lose gets a $10M kiss but there no hope in Hades that he's here next year, under Any circumstances; Trent Brown becomes our Right Tackle, if he doesn't have another tummy ache or whatever, that is... And as always, we need an actual, legitimate Center of the Future.

Phatt Matt's phinished as OC; that's Non-Negotiable.

DawgHaus Bourne's shooting his way outta town; he won't be back and neither will free agent to-be Agholor, who Just Plain Sucks.

Would love to sign Meyers to a multi-year extension averaging $10M per. Don't know how much higher than that I would go...

Mac will of course return, unless something really weird happens at the position... But he must NOT just be handed the starting role; let him fight for the right, for once.




An improved OL next year will mean an improved Mac next year; it's only logical. What I want to see happen however is a Real, Live QB competition during TC; then we'll all see who's worth salvaging...

Phatt Matt won't be scheming anything next year, at least nothing offensively-related.

DawgHaus is Gone, but we're stuck with the TEs for another year; I believe they're too expensive to cut.

Wynn leaving will be the most classic example of addition by subtraction. He has been a gutless lazy fragile zero

 

[SVN]

first two points especially - "they just run a bunch of plays" is so accurate