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OT: Bad news - "it" is back...
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Asking for your support

This is where we gather to follow things on Game Day. Obviously, emotions tend to be high so if anyone gets a little crazy, the use of the “Mute” button is encouraged on anyone who may be annoying to you to control your experience and to allow the moderators to also enjoy the game.

At the same time, please take a deep breath before over-reacting for the sake of making this a pleasant experience for everyone.

Who do you want to see OUT?

  • Mac Jones OUT! Let us see Zappe!

    Votes: 33 25.8%
  • Matt Patricia OUT! Let someone else call the offensive plays!

    Votes: 102 79.7%
  • Joe Judge OUT! He is ruining our Quarterbacks!

    Votes: 48 37.5%
  • KEEP them ALL - I have complete FAITH in the choices BB has made so far this season!

    Votes: 5 3.9%

  • Total voters
  • Poll closed .


Hall of Fame Poster
Eagles have had 2 HC since 2017

Denver has had 4 HC and 2 GM since 2015

Seattle has been better than the Pats since 2019 and is 1 game out of 1st in the division. Pats haven't won the division since 2019 and won't for the foreseeable future.

Dolphins have had 3 HC since 2016

Bengals have had 2 HC since 2015

Falcons have had 2 HC and 2 GM since 2017 (not counting Raheem Morris)

Steelers haven't had 2 seasons yet to even use them. Ben played last season.

What do all these teams have in common? Multiple HC / GMs. The Seahawks and Steelers have had less time then BB has had and Pete's winning with Geno Smith! Steelers have a Rookie QB. Let's see if the switch out their OC with a DC and also swap out their systems.
You're making our arguments for us. Thanks. Teams that go through the Coaching merry go round have decades of ineptitude.


Hall of Fame Poster
I agree with you here. The Pats would need to resolve their OT, WR and coaching deficiencies. They can splurge on the tackle position in free agency if they want to, and coaching is just a matter of doing what needs to be done. WR, I don't know. They'll lose Meyers if they spend big elsewhere, they'll probably have to turn to the draft and their younger guys. At least Garoppolo already has a connection with Bourne, they'd need to get him featured again and hope Thornton takes a big step.
The problem with FA tackles is that the only reason why Orlando Brown is even available potentially is that he has played so poorly this year.


Staff member Supporter
The problem with FA tackles is that the only reason why Orlando Brown is even available potentially is that he has played so poorly this year.
Yeah, there are a few FA tackle options but none of them are world class right now. Still… they’d be big improvements over the corpse of Marcus Cannon who is probably currently our best RT.

Maybe they can try to move Onwenu back to RT yet again next year and find a new RG? Not sure what the free agent guard market looks like.

Rob0729 Supporter Supporter
I'm with you on this one, Kontra. The coaches and OL have definitely let Mac down at times, but when he's had opportunities he's failed to capitalize.

The tackles blowing it at the goal line and almost causing a safety, yes, totally screwed him. However, plays like this where he runs around forever and has dudes wide open but doesn't throw it and ultimately chooses to just wing it to no one... or the play where he scrambles for a first down but gets scared and half-slides/half-falls a yard shy of the down marker because ?? he's scared of getting hit? And we've seen him do that more than once ... He's got a lot of work to do himself. I don't think he's at the top of the list of issues but he's in the top 5... and I have doubts that he's the long-term QB solution right now.

Jones is definitely developing some bad habits. But I see a lot of that as a result of bad coaching. Last year under McDaniels, Jones had very good pocket presence, he was very good at going through his progressions, he made quick decisions. Now some of his strengths from last year are his weaknesses this year.

This is why I give him a free pass on a lot of it and feel the Pats are ruining him.

A lot of people compare him to Tony Eason, but people seem to forget or don’t realize that Eason wasn’t a bad QB when he first started. He was actually very good in 1984 with the third highest passer rating in the league that year (also had the lowest interception percentage and 6th best TD percentage in the league that year). The problem was the o-line was awful that year and he was sacked for then an NFL record 59 times. And he was never the same after that. In 1985 he was already seeing ghosts and dived to the ground at the first sign of pressure. He never got over it and it made him have a short and unproductive career after a promising start to his career. I fear history could repeat itself with Jones.

The biggest problems with the offense right now are clearly the coaching and the o-line, but Jones is an issue. I saw one of the local writers put a list of the top 5 reasons for the offensive woes and had him as #5. I would put him at #4 since the #4 issue he had listing I would have put under coaching. But I would put receivers not getting open fast enough over Jones too.

But I feel many of Jones‘ issues have to do with the two biggest issues. I just hope Belichick fixes the those two biggest issues and it isn’t too late for Jones when he does. Unfortunately he has no coach now who can coach him out of his bad habits he is developing.


2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Bill's a great coach, and his decision to let Groh take the lead GM-wise was obviously a smart one given their overall group of players this year. But obviously, his decision on Patricia is questionable, which is clearly playing a big role in what has been a frustrating season on offense.

Would they be better under Reich or Payton? Good question, but I think Bill is a better overall game-planner than both and better in pressure situations. I also feel like that's why aside from Thursday night, the Patriots have been in pretty much every game this year with a couple of plays here or there being the difference. He's always been outstanding at that, and the players always take the field seemingly with zero question about what they need to do, especially defensively. Having watched the Saints with Brees at QB, I didn't see that overall from Payton, and I can't give a good opinion on Reich because other than the Patriots match-ups, I really didn't see or watch anything they did.

But I agree, losing Ernie was big and losing Scar was big. But clearly, losing McDaniels has probably been a little more significant than we hoped it would be.
Tbh we had a flub of a schedule for starters.

6 wins against ehlinger, z Wilson, z Wilson, trubisky, Jared Goff and brissett .

Losses against Aaron Rodger,Justin fields, tua , Josh Allen, Kirk cousins and Lamar.

We just about compete with the good ones but don't give any indication of winning. With powerhouses like buffalo and recently mii we capitulate .

Wanna see how we do against Bengals and jamarr chase


Third String But Playing on Special Teams

This outcome is perfectly normal on a well coached offense nothing to see here.

I think this play shows both problems

The blocking

But also Mac having bad instincts against pressure/blitzes

Why spin around to make a play when they send the blitz? Against a blitz you have to get rid of the ball quick. Even if it means throwing the ball away.


Third String But Playing on Special Teams
The guy went 10-7 with a rookie and aside from that has 7-9 (Newton) 11-5 (Cassel) and 5-11 (Bledsoe). One losing season so far since Brady…albeit, we could be on the verge of another :(
I look at this way

If Rex Ryan- who we've made fun of - can take Sanchez to the AFC title game, then I expect Belichick - who is supposed to be the GOAT - to go and win a super bowl with Mac

One-If-By-Sea Supporter Supporter
Well, OL has been a product of injuries and age. We have a solid starter in Andrews, and Onwenu offers some positional flexibility. Brown’s best days are behind him and Wynn is an injury machine. That group needs to be almost entirely revamped.
Not sure an entire revamp. Strange Andrews and Onwenu might be OK next year, and Hines and Russey might be OK too. Not an outstanding group but above average. No need to revamp an above average group. Now the tackles are another issue. The tackles are so bad they make the whole line look incompetent. Need both tackles redone with T Brown and Cajuste as backups.
The WRs are fine if you have a playmaker in the vein of Diggs, Hill, Jefferson, Chase, etc as the clear cut #1. You can get away with this group with guys like Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, and Allen. You can’t get away with it with Mac. The TEs have been a total waste of money. $24M in cap space for two total touchdowns is an abomination. Out of the two, Henry has been better. We can put to bed the myth that we just don’t know how to use Jonnu because he’s been almost totally useless under two different OCs, one of whom is the best in the business. The WRs seem like the most salvageable unit if you want to shed a guy like Agholor or Bourne and bring in a true #1.
Don't think we will see a #1. How good is Thornton next year? Agholor and Bourne can go and add another I agree.
I’ve never been a fan of Patricia on either side of the ball, and I would not have brought him back in the first place. His fat ass can pack his s.hit, click his cankles together three times, and f.uck off back to the all-you-can-eat buffet.
Not a dumb guy. Can't be that bad if his defense was rated #1. Maybe not great, but you are a bit overboard.
Mac? Too early to tell. I’ve given him a fair shake. I haven’t even really been critical of him until after the Vikings game. I still think the 2022 Pats are his team, and that Zappe’s time to earn the job is in TC next season. But I see some troubling signs that have put doubt into me about whether or not he’s the guy. He runs way too hot and seems to have trouble forgetting the previous play. He doesn’t seem to be THE GUY to make the tough play when we need it (sliding before the first down marker in key situations two weeks in a row instead of taking the hit and fighting for it). His field vision has been spotty all season, and that’s not something that’s ideal for a guy who is already working with limited physical traits. He can read a defense very well. His pre-snap reads are great and he can diagnose disguises. But I don’t think he has “it.” The mental issues may be a side effect of immaturity, but the physical softness isn’t something many skittish QBs overcome. Hard to say if he can be salvaged or not right now.
Unfortunately, I agree with you. Mac reads things well, and is very accurate. He is starting to move better, but for some reason he does not progress through his reads, even though he can (you call it field vision). I am not sure he is soft, but he does not look like he has "it" like you note.
Just my honest take.
Why don't you also apologize when you are dishonest?

One-If-By-Sea Supporter Supporter
If Rex Ryan- who we've made fun of - can take Sanchez to the AFC title game, then I expect Belichick - who is supposed to be the GOAT - to go and win a super bowl with Mac

It is amazing Rex Ryan took Sanchez to the AFC title game. Amazing what can be accomplished with high draft picks and a few rah rah speeches. It crashes and burns, but you can see a blip.


Pro Bowl Player
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I look at this way

If Rex Ryan- who we've made fun of - can take Sanchez to the AFC title game, then I expect Belichick - who is supposed to be the GOAT - to go and win a super bowl with Mac
Funny I kind of use the AFC championship game as the minimum I would like to see Bill accomplish before retiring. Obviously SB is the goal but I think title game should be enough to shut up his naysayers as rediculous as it is that he should still have anything to prove.


In the Starting Line-Up
I recorded the game and watching it now. I have made it to halftime ! When watching there was times when I thought there was no point in the offence being on the field as no sooner they had ran on it was time to run off again......just embarrassing. I can understand all the comments , this set up is just not working.

1960Pats Supporter Supporter
2022 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
The Brady example is what can happen when a good QB replaces a Dud at QB like Mac Jones.

Brady was not the GOAT in 2001. Simply a QB who executed the plays given from the sideline. The same plays that Bledsoe bungled and failed at.

A piece of BB and the Patriot way died last night when BB refused to play Zappe to try and win.
I'm not sure that Jones is a dud yet. He's had a lot more to deal with than Brady did in 2001. And Zappe's no Bledsoe either.

Brady was absolutely the GOAT in 2001 but we didn't know it yet because he only played in 14 regular season games (11-3) and 3 playoff games (3-0). We could see how great he was soon after though.

The biggest piece of the Patriot way died when BB chased TB away over about the same amount as he's paying Nelson Agholor now for one season.

The 5-11 Bledsoe year shouldn't even count since we were tossing out players who didn't fit and replacing them with old hold the fort guys. I mean, they gave Terry Glenn the heave-ho and replaced him with David Patten. Greg Spires was shown the door (became a perennial Pro Bowler) in favor of Anthony Pleasant.

People also tend to forget the 1996 year. Belichick was the notable addition to the team that year, we went from 6-10 to the Super Bowl.
Was that the year when Tuna Crap was smart enough to get Bill here for his defense but evil enough to stab the Pats in the back?

What are you talking about?

What top quality players?

Only Brady? Who else are you referring to? Gilmore? Gilmore was injured and is now a shell of himself. There's a reason why the team we traded him to let him go. Trey Flowers? Is he even playing football anymore? I can't think of anyone else. Who?
I was actually talking about the good players who left and went on to play more, not the stiffs or injured players that he let go. There's probably oodles of those players out there.

How far back would you like me to go? Should I go back to Seymour and Ty Law or stay more recent with Amendola and Gronk? I'm pretty sure Welker was chased away too. There may be others also.

In the end though, Brady was indeed the biggest blunder of them all. And Bill let him go for nothing and had no QB to take his place. BRILLIANT!

1960Pats Supporter Supporter
2022 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I did say last night that Allen has this thing where he looks like he's going out of bounds and then keeps going because he knows guys are going to let up and not hit him. So I think teams need to start drilling him until he eventually stops doing that.
I see other QBs doing that. Didn't Kordell Stewart do it for a big gain against the Pats in a playoff game a few years back? I see Mahomes do it once in a while also. I know it's a part of the rules that a QB can take advantage of but I'm also pulling for the big hit to stop that nonsense.
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Pro Bowl Player
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I see other QBs doing that. Didn't Kordell Stewart do it for a big gain against the Pats in a playoff game a few years back? I see Mahomes do it once in a while also. I know it's a part of the rules that a QB can take advantage of but I'm also pulling for the big hit to stop that nonsense.
I still have PTSD from that Kordell play.

I think personal fouls should be thrown for exploiting safety rules.

That said I'm not sure what the hell Wilson was doing it was still a decent distance from the sideline.

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