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Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Vikings beat the Pats


THIS IS OUR LIVE GAME DAY THREAD:

This is where we gather to follow things on Game Day. Obviously, emotions tend to be high so if anyone gets a little crazy, the use of the “Mute” button is encouraged on anyone who may be annoying to you to control your experience and to allow the moderators to also enjoy the game.

At the same time, please take a deep breath before over-reacting for the sake of making this a pleasant experience for everyone.

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You said if we cut sacks down in half (6 to 3 check), reduced # of penalties (8 to 6 check) and won TO battle (+1 check) we would win this game. That & the dozen of posters that assured me Cousins couldn't perform in Primetime & that we had a Top #5 elite defense, gave me enough comfort to bet big on the Pats.

I feel duped.

Offense:
1. Mac played better against the #31st ranked Pass D w/ a decimated secondary. Though, Rham being #1 in targets 3 weeks in a row & #1 in receptions (again), no bueno.
2. OL played much better than expected (incl. Ferentz).
3. 3-10 on 3rd downs, 0-1 on 4th downs, 0-3 in RZ, more of the same inefficiency.

Defense:
1. My concerns with our much vaunted D once they faced better QB/skill player teams, are confirmed: >50% 3rd down conversions allowed, >300 passing yds, 3-5 RZ TDs allowed. This theme keeps happening since 2019. Are they frauds? We shall see.

ST:
1. Live by ST play one week, die by ST play the next.

Rookie Coaches:
1. Bill is 0-3 against rookie coaches this season (0-2 in Primetime). Is he slipping?
2. O'Connell did an excellent job of preparing his team on a short week after the drubbing by the Cowboys. Seems to be a good coach (9-2, wow).

We're on to the Bills.
Yes BB is slipping. Creativity, innovation, vision and willingness to occasionally take a risk are sorely needed.
However Kraft will stick with BB until he passes Shula.
 
I figured this would be a thread full of whining.

Since none of us are on the field, we do not run the risk of endangering future outcomes by admitting that we did well by hanging with a now 9-2 team that had a huge chip on its shoulder.

Just like the real team has to have mental toughness to compete, though, we need a little more mental toughness when a game is still being played.

Can we not compete to try to be the first guy to say "It's over"? I keep seeing that. When I was a kid if you were a real fan, you'd hold on to any shred of possibility. Hell, forget the Patriots, I was a Red Sox fan in the 20th century. Now? People don't understand that games ebb and flow. Everything that doesn't go their way is some reason to be a big baby. The refs screwed us. This player should be fired. That player should be fired. Why didn't Bill go out and get that guy? (PS, the moment Justin Jefferson moons the crowd he is OURS.)

I had our GDT open during that Atlanta SB, and it was really obvious who was a real fan. A bunch of guys wanted to just sit around, stay in the chat room, and lament about how "it's over" and how horrible the Patriots REALLY were.

Don't get me started on the Playcalling Fallacy, formerly known by the phrase Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc. Yes yes, you're brilliant, you woulda coulda shoulda got that call right on the unsuccessful play call. I never see anybody saying "I love that play call" when a play IS successful. When I see that even out, I'll know it's not just a reflection of some sports media trope up there.

Okay enough about everybody else. For me, the offense was playing well all night but lost that ability to sustain the drive and punch it in. It didn't run out of gas to rack up the yards, it ran out of the secret sauce that led to TDs, especially RZ TDs.

The ST just had what I hope were all its F-ups in one game. Giving up the big return TD right after Mac came out and put together that drive in the beginning of the second half was bad, and the running into the kicker penalty that took away possession was worse. Those were big swings.

We're not alone in being unable to cover Justin Jefferson, but it would have been nice if we were the rare team that could do so. That said, his performance loomed huge in my mind, then I looked up his actual numbers. I would have guessed high-100-200 yard range. And it just FELT like he caught at least 2 TDs. But no, 139 and 1... that's still plenty. That said, he can cut your heart out in one quick throw and he reeks of WR dominance. We're going to be hearing that name a lot. Just looked... 1232 yards on the year, 5 TDs. That's 11 games, by the way. "WAHHHH why don't WE have that guy?" I dunno you got 25 million a season lying around to buy one in FA? No? Back to the crap shoot then. Still, he's going to be their Gronk for a while... and right now I believe it's still on his rookie deal.

As often happens when you're playing from behind, Mac Jones demonstrated that yes, he can rack up the yardage. It's just unwise to try to do so against the better secondaries in the league. This Vikings team will be outdueled by another high-octane offense; they gave up 382 yards to a Mac Jones-led team, and that wasn't all (or mostly) in garbage time. In a NE win he would have gone for over 300. And yes, that includes catch & runs.

We, on the other hand, got a dose of reality. yeah we look big and bad holding the JETE to 3. But we had not yet confronted the concentrated evil that is Kirk Cousins.

I'm putting this one in the category of "no moral victories BUT..."
- I was hoping for but not counting on a W; it certainly wasn't one I would have circled on the calendar as an easy win

- It felt good for Mac's development, and/or the development of the O-line, and/or the evolution of our offensive coaching. I am particularly proud of calling the use of HH as a scoring threat rather than an ornament. Mac was crisp, efficient, and downright deadly at times last night against an admittedly porous MN secondary. It's not a real test. I've seen sharper corners on bowling balls. But it's good to see him doing it and scoring points. To his credit, lately he's been doing it just not scoring points.

- The downside is, characteristically, what we notice first and what we'll carry around with us as a fan base. We had a ST meltdown, and it will take a couple games for me to believe that was a one-off. We played like JAGs on defense, and curiously, we didn't get pressure against a team that can be had in their own backfield. I am sure we'll argue all that.

- Edit (I almost forgot): Stevenson is ridiculous. I called that one his rookie preseason. The MN fans would be whining about how they had no answer for him all night if the score went the other way. "Wahhh how come we didnt get that Rhamondre Stevenson and we only have this Cook guy..."

- So, Bills next, and it's not going to let up much this regular season. Given what this team's shown so far, we have to play out of our minds to even back into the playoffs. On the other hand, we have seen both the defense and the ST that were missing yesterday. We found an offensive groove that we can hope to revisit or OMG improve upon.

Time to see whether we go "oh nooooo this is so harrrrrd" or whether we say "we're here, we belong in the conversation, [etc.]"

This game really felt like Mac10 can make that statement. So far he's just cleared his throat to speak, but I'd be elated to see him (re-) emerge.
 
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The people complaining about the refs have a right to. They were garbage last night. The people saying the game is fixed should just stop watching football and stop posting since they won’t be watching football anymore. Why watch a fixed contest?

In any event, this is just distracting from one of the very real problems on offense that healthy bodies on the OL won’t fix - the fact that the offense can still be played as if it is in the red zone all over the field with 0 consequences. Minnesota realized it later in the second half and we were dead in the water until they went into prevent on the last drive. None of our receivers put the fear of God into a defense, so we will see teams continue to just make every attempt to choke off everything underneath and dare the team to beat them deep… and we won’t be able to do it consistently enough. This has been a problem for years - going back to the final two years Brady was here. We got away with it one time then, but I don’t think we can get away with it with Mac guiding the offense now.

Hopefully, Thornton turns into that guy. He and Agholor on the field together (assuming Agholor doesn’t miss time) at flanker and split end stresses the defense in ways that Parker and Agholor just can’t. You can’t play Cover-1 unless you have a shutdown corner on the outside that doesn’t need a safety shaded his way. That said, Thornton is a rookie and, to date, he hasn’t been able to do that. It’s a need, and a big one.

Thornton is having trouble eluding jams at the LOS. He needs to get more physical, a tall order for a guy with a frame made from toothpicks. Not that I think Bourne is "the answer" but his MIA status is troubling to say the least.

It's mystifying. I look at this WR crew and feel there's enough talent to do well if used properly despite lack of an elite Jefferson or Chase type. Same with the tight ends.
 
And for the whiners who need us to have a "True number 1" - maybe that's true. We had 5 guys with 60+ yards though. Why is it so important to have 1 guy over 100? (which, by the way, we didn't have)

Seems like it would be another reason to complain about how the playcalling is sooooo predictable.
 
Thornton is having trouble eluding jams at the LOS

Watch the All-22 Thornton gets open. He just hasn't been Jones 1st or 2nd read and with how the OL has played the few weeks before last night Jones hasn't been able to get to that.

Thornton should have had a TD against the colts but Jones overthrew him
 
Thornton is having trouble eluding jams at the LOS. He needs to get more physical, a tall order for a guy with a frame made from toothpicks. Not that I think Bourne is "the answer" but his MIA status is troubling to say the least.

It's mystifying. I look at this WR crew and feel there's enough talent to do well if used properly despite lack of an elite Jefferson or Chase type. Same with the tight ends.
There’s enough there if you have an elite quarterback, like Mahomes and KC this year. It’s not enough if your QB isn’t elite, which is what 2022 Mac Jones is.
 
He hit that pass to Agholor, which unfortunately Agholor didn't finish the play. He doesn't have the horses to go down the field with no timeouts. I think that's pretty obvious.
Giving any QB a better downfield weapon helps out. Isn't that why we drafted Thornton?

Oh wait he was invisible and didn't look anything like that Justin Jefferson kid. :poop:

Patriots need to realize that WRs are now important to winning football games. They have failed at finding good players for that position long enough.
 
We have Thornton but he hasn't really done anything since the Browns game!
Yeah, not getting him involved in the passing game was a Matt Patricia mistake.

Notice how well the Vikings incorporated their new TE they got from the Lions?

We’re still waiting for that with Jonuu Smith.
 
Watch the All-22 Thornton gets open. He just hasn't been Jones 1st or 2nd read and with how the OL has played the few weeks before last night Jones hasn't been able to get to that.

Thornton should have had a TD against the colts but Jones overthrew him

Mac jones misses open guys all the time. But if Thornton had really been wide open he'd have more than 0 catches and 0 yards. Are we ready to say he's a bust yet? Patriots whiff on yet another highly drafted WR, not that surprising really.
 
Mac jones misses open guys all the time. But if Thornton had really been wide open he'd have more than 0 catches and 0 yards. Are we ready to say he's a bust yet? Patriots whiff on yet another highly drafted WR, not that surprising really.
No and the fact you are calling him one is a joke.
 
Thornton is having trouble eluding jams at the LOS. He needs to get more physical, a tall order for a guy with a frame made from toothpicks. Not that I think Bourne is "the answer" but his MIA status is troubling to say the least.

It's mystifying. I look at this WR crew and feel there's enough talent to do well if used properly despite lack of an elite Jefferson or Chase type. Same with the tight ends.
He has shown flashes early on based on his speed. Could go either way, ultimately. He definitely has the speed.

Parker last night was showing how he's a good combo b/w toughness and long ball potential... again. 4 targets, 4 catches, 80 yards, for the whiners who want more yards per catch. Parker gives you that. Last night the track team was out there, Agholor, Parker, and Thornton all with lots of opportunities, because thats what you do against a team that couldn't even maintain coverage if it had Colonial Penn and 9.95 a month.

Meyers being out leaves us room, again, to see "the rest of our 2s" get some reps. Bourne was back in the "reliable" role that Meyers vacated. And we had fun with rediscovering H Henry.

But yeah, Thornton is breaking my heart, especially because at first he showed unexpectedly "physical" aspects to his game. (i.e., catches in traffic, not just go routes.)
 
There’s enough there if you have an elite quarterback, like Mahomes and KC this year. It’s not enough if your QB isn’t elite, which is what 2022 Mac Jones is.
Bingo

This team is damn good. 2001 Pats/ Tuna Giants good. There really weren't any Beast like players on those offense where you had to stop that guy to win. It was a team effort. Stevenson is the best player on this offense. If he was a sole RB on another team, everyone would know who he is.
 
While I am/continue to be a Mac believer - I must admit those citing the Viking secondary do have a point as a main reason for the improved passing stats last night. Earlier this year or even last year there were some comparisons of Mac to Cousins and I fear that another consideration may have played a part with Mac’s passing last night . - GULP - could the domed stadium and perfect passing conditions helped that beleaguered right arm of our young QB? Since the 34 year old Cousins is one of the best. “Domed” throwers, I hope we don’t regret the renovation project at Gillette do he’s not include a dome! *But*, Heaven forbid, if we do have a “Dome QB” on our hands, might I suggest an off season trade of Mac & any 3 of our current receivers (tight ends included) for that guy Justin Jefferson??!!
 
Yes BB is slipping. Creativity, innovation, vision and willingness to occasionally take a risk are sorely needed.
However Kraft will stick with BB until he passes Shula.
Who do you think we should replace him with ?
 
Unfortunately, players must maintain possession all the way to complete the act! It's a bummer Offense finally came to life, myles Bryant did myles Bryant things as usual, this knocks us out of the playoff picture, the bills soley because of allen will be the most difficult 2 games left.. therefore I have them loosing both!

Toss up against Miami as well. Patriots need to be rooting for any team that plays the jets..
No, they don't. Surviving the ground was eliminated as a rule in 2018.
 
I suggest an off season trade of Mac & any 3 of our current receivers (tight ends included) for that guy Justin Jefferson??!!
...who is going to be throwing lasers to Jefferson in this unlikely scenario?
 
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