PostGame Thread Official Post Game Thread- Pats beat the Texans

[DaBruinz]

Exactly. Shows how little the OLine coach and oc know about talent eval that Karras sat for 4 weeks while durant played

Too bad that Karras and Durant play different positions,..

 

[DaBruinz]

Since Thanksgiving'19 this is a team with a 11-16 record. These are a different Patriots. The staff around BB isn't very good.

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Gotta love when you choose arbitrary times in a pathetic attempt to prove a point.. Too bad you completely stink at it. You failed, yet again.

So, where is your proof about O'Brien and Reese? Still waiting.

 

[DaBruinz]

Too much dancing behind the LOS from the backs at times - particularly Stevenson. Need more punch.

You should watch the games more because "dancing" is the least of Stevenson's problems. In fact, none of the RBs have had this problem to this point.. Their problems have been they're over-aggressive. Running into the backs of their O-linemen and allowing themselves to get swallowed up. They aren't being patient enough. Except for Harris.

 

[DaBruinz]

Whatever you say, Steven.

I'll take his evaluations over your highsight 20/20 garbage.

 

[DaBruinz]

For 3. The original OL coach was let go due to refusal to take COVID vaccine.

This is false. Cole Popovich and Carmen Bricillo were CO-OLine Coaches after Dante left. And, according to the Pats website, Popovich is still employed by the team, though he's not participating this year due to the ridiculous f'in Covid BS.

Now, I did ask whether or not the lack of Popovich's presence was having an effect. There is no way anyone outside the organization can say for certainty because we don't know how the tasks were broken down between the two.

 

[DaBruinz]

This is a really good post. Thank you.

Yeah the team has fallen off a cliff since the 2nd half of the 2019 season. And losing a lot of quality staff people is certainly a factor.

I think looking at this team which has been 11-16 since Thanksgiving'19, it shouldn't be controversial to say the staff around BB is not good.

1. front office drafting has been bad for several recent years except for the last 1-2 drafts. Ziegler is in over his head. Giving away Gilmore and spending $300M in free agency (164M guaranteed) seems like there isn't an overall strategy. Elevate Eliot Wolf and also Groh.
2. offense has averaged under 20 points per game since Thanksgiving'19. 31st in red zone offense now and 31st in run offense. 24th in scoring. This looks way too much like the Denver'10 loser offense and league-worst St Louis'11 offense. I'm all for bringing back O'Shea or O'Brien at offensive coordinator. Daboll is too hot as an oc and is a HC candidate, we can't get him now.
3. The Oline coach shouldn't even be in the NFL, going from Youngstown State to coaching the Patriot OLine? gtfo of here, who hired him? Stop with the oc's subIQ ohio/indiana connections, they make the organization way worse.

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At least your consistent in posting your unintelligent idiocy.
1) WRONG. Ziegler isn't over his head. They didn't "give away" Gilmore. They got all they were going to get for an 32 year old INJURED CB who may only play 8 games this season.

2) Math isn't your strong suit. They've scored 555 points in 27 games since Thanksgiving 2019. That's 20.5 points per game including the 1 play-off game. It's amazing how you bastardize the team by going back across 2 seasons when there is hardly anyone left from that 2019 team.. Or did you miss that the Pats have 24 new people on the roster just from last year to this one.

3) The O-line Coach? Carmen Bricillo? You mean the guy that Scarnecchia hand-picked to coach with Popovich? You're also ignoring that Bricillo spent a year with the Pats as a offensive coaching assistant in 2019 before moving to the O-line last year. I guarantee you that Bricillo's Football IQ is gigantic compared to yours. Which isn't hard since yours is zero. So, for you to crap on him is pretty laughable. BTW, He had ZERO connection to McDaniels and John Carroll.

Still waiting for your proof that O'Brien was responsible for all the great Offensive players from 2008-2012 and Reese all the great defensive picks from that same time frame.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't.

He'll likely draft for other positions, but you know that. WRs will be mostly mid-tier veterans that have shown their capabilities to lessen the risk of busts, later round development guys or trades, but again you know that too.

And the fact that once Mac was upright and not eating the opposing defender's shoulder pad or the turf (i.e. seeing it's not the WRs, it's the OL that's the issue) , the non-weapon having Patriots passed the ball extremely successfully.

But that doesn't fit the narrative of only #1 WRs win football games and make QBs good.

They have Bourne, Agholor, and Harry under contract going into next year. They have control of Meyers and Olszewski via RFA tenders. The likelihood of them going out to get anyone other than back of the roster guys is slim to none unless they dump Agholor, which isn't likely.

They're going to focus on the O-line, DT, LB and CB in all likelihood. I wouldn't be surprised to see them switch Winovich inside. He's the only one with the size, ability to be like Bruschi at ILB. Losing Van Noy won't be a big deal, imho. He's been mediocre to this point. Collins will be addition by subtraction. Hightower will be he biggest loss. They're gonna need to find a LEADER type player who can take over at LB.

I think that they'll bring Phillips back to help whomever takes over at FS. Wouldn't be surprised if it's Bledsoe. The irony of that isn't lost on me. But, developing some CBs to line up opposite Jackson and to eventually take over from Jon Jones is definitely imperative.

 

[DaBruinz]

I cant read the whole thread but does anyone know how they could have overturned that Harris touchdown? They would need clear evidence and they didnt show any good replays but the ones I saw it looked like he was over the line bfore it was fumbled.

@dreighver posted a still shot that he believes shows that the ball was loose prior to crossing the end zone. The problem is that you can't tell if the ball is actually loose in that angle or just shifted. All the other shots I saw, you couldn't see whether the ball was loose prior Harris crossing the plane with it.. And Crossing the plane only has to be less than 1/10th of a mm to count. And with the original call being a TD, the ref over-turning it even based on the shot @dreighver posted is laughable, imho

 

[DaBruinz]

The angle doesn't matter if you take into account the defender's body position. He is standing on the goal line and bent in half as he reaches around and punches out the ball. The ball is seen coming out with the two players in the position. It doesn't look like that ball crossed the line with that defender standing on it, leaning forward and punching the ball out.

To be clear, I was really upset when they overturned that TD and I didn't want to see that picture but once I did, it's pretty clear that the ball was out before the goal line.

The problem is that the the defender wasn't "bent in half" per your claim. He was leaning forward. However, what you're ignoring is that the ball was in Harris' LEFT arm only when it was hit by the Texans' player LEFT hand. The problem with that snap shot that @dreighver posted is that you can not tell what's going on with Harris' left arm. All you see is the ball and the right arm. IF that is the shot they used to over-turn the play, they screwed up because you can't tell what's going on with the left arm.

Also, if you look at the Texans' player's left foot, it's fully behind the goal line.. That means his left shoulder, at best is in line with the goal line. The problem is that in the replays, it shows the Texans' player's LEFT HAND hitting the ball. Not his right. For that to happen, he has to hit the end of the football that is by Harris' left elbow. And you can't tell when that happens from ANY of the angles shown. Not even the one posted by @dreighver.

Claiming that it's "pretty clear that the ball was out" is making things up. Because you can't tell what's going on at that point with Harris' left arm and the ball.

 

[Nehalem]

The problem is that the the defender wasn't "bent in half" per your claim. He was leaning forward. However, what you're ignoring is that the ball was in Harris' LEFT arm only when it was hit by the Texans' player LEFT hand. The problem with that snap shot that @dreighver posted is that you can not tell what's going on with Harris' left arm. All you see is the ball and the right arm. IF that is the shot they used to over-turn the play, they screwed up because you can't tell what's going on with the left arm.

Also, if you look at the Texans' player's left foot, it's fully behind the goal line.. That means his left shoulder, at best is in line with the goal line. The problem is that in the replays, it shows the Texans' player's LEFT HAND hitting the ball. Not his right. For that to happen, he has to hit the end of the football that is by Harris' left elbow. And you can't tell when that happens from ANY of the angles shown. Not even the one posted by @dreighver.

Claiming that it's "pretty clear that the ball was out" is making things up. Because you can't tell what's going on at that point with Harris' left arm and the ball.

Yeah that is what I saw in the replays.

The defenders left arm looked to be in the end zone. And it looked like the defenders left arm caused the fumble. So that would mean that the ball also had to be in the end zone.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Really? The Pats won't be able to fix anything via the draft? When did you become Ms. Cleo? SMH. Statements like yours are beyond ridiculous. You sound like DKF..

I think a must for EVERYONE is more consistency on both sides of the ball.

So you think we can get at last 3/4 year 1 starters to replace our Free Agents via the draft next year ? This would be a Perfect scenario

 

[PScottman]

They're gonna need to find a LEADER type player who can take over at LB.

The clutch gene is a rarity that HT has/had...more than athletic ability it was big plays at big moments. Going to be difficult to replace.

 

[bresna]

The ball is out here. The ball has not crossed the line here. Maybe his helmet did, but that is not where the ball is as Harris is leaning forward, as is the defender. Here we see Harris's helmet maybe crossing the line.

Having seen this and -to me- agreeing with the call, there is no $#@$ way that those bozos in New York saw this in the 30 seconds it took for them to overturn it. So while it hindsight, it looks - again, to me - like they got it right, I don't think they got it right live. I still think the TD should have stood.

 

[Lavictoire]

@dreighver posted a still shot that he believes shows that the ball was loose prior to crossing the end zone. The problem is that you can't tell if the ball is actually loose in that angle or just shifted. All the other shots I saw, you couldn't see whether the ball was loose prior Harris crossing the plane with it.. And Crossing the plane only has to be less than 1/10th of a mm to count. And with the original call being a TD, the ref over-turning it even based on the shot @dreighver posted is laughable, imho

Totally agree. They had no business overturning that. The call on the field should have been upheld. I watched the replay slo-mo and the angle does not allow them evidence to change the call. It seems to me he made it to the line and it was a TD.

 

[Lavictoire]

View attachment 36611
The ball is out here. The ball has not crossed the line here. Maybe his helmet did, but that is not where the ball is as Harris is leaning forward, as is the defender. Here we see Harris's helmet maybe crossing the line.

Having seen this and -to me- agreeing with the call, there is no $#@$ way that those bozos in New York saw this in the 30 seconds it took for them to overturn it. So while it hindsight, it looks - again, to me - like they got it right, I don't think they got it right live. I still think the TD should have stood.

The nose of the ball could have touched the line. They had no business overturning that TD because whenever the Pats get screwed the announcers always lecture us how it has to be totally clear, slam dunk, indisputable, courtroom worthy evidence to overturn a call on the field. No lecture about evidence this time.

 

[doesntmatter1]

Just to chime in I thought Harris' fumble was clear in real time and the replay. Ball was moving before he crossed imo and I was angry at Harris and only Harris. Harris put the refs into the equation by being careless literally at the finish line.

 

[DaBruinz]

View attachment 36611
The ball is out here. The ball has not crossed the line here. Maybe his helmet did, but that is not where the ball is as Harris is leaning forward, as is the defender. Here we see Harris's helmet maybe crossing the line.

Having seen this and -to me- agreeing with the call, there is no $#@$ way that those bozos in New York saw this in the 30 seconds it took for them to overturn it. So while it hindsight, it looks - again, to me - like they got it right, I don't think they got it right live. I still think the TD should have stood.

How can you say that the "ball is out" when you can't see his left arm? Which is the arm that was holding the football at the time it was hit. Sorry, but you can't. And claiming you can is a crock..

 

[DaBruinz]

So you think we can get at last 3/4 year 1 starters to replace our Free Agents via the draft next year ? This would be a Perfect scenario

ROFLMAO. Seriously. Could you change what you ACTUALLY SAID any more than this crap? Nice pathetic attempt at spin there.

You stated:

We won't be able to fix anything via draft so i hope we nail on a FS signing like we did with Phillips." (note that the bold was done as part of my response to your ridiculous post).

You said we won't be able to fix ANYTHING via the draft. Do you understand the word "Anything"?

I fully expect the Patriots to draft 3-4 players who will end up playing significant amounts of time during their rookie season. Player who will end up stepping in and replacing the players that leave/retire.

Maybe you should pay attention to your ridiculously exaggerated posts and what you actually say instead of trying to pin things on others that weren't remotely said or implied.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

ROFLMAO. Seriously. Could you change what you ACTUALLY SAID any more than this crap? Nice pathetic attempt at spin there.

You stated:



You said we won't be able to fix ANYTHING via the draft. Do you understand the word "Anything"?

I fully expect the Patriots to draft 3-4 players who will end up playing significant amounts of time during their rookie season. Player who will end up stepping in and replacing the players that leave/retire.

Maybe you should pay attention to your ridiculously exaggerated posts and what you actually say instead of trying to pin things on others that weren't remotely said or implied.

Ok my bad, i did mean everything instead of anything. I think my Second Post made that clean.

 

[archstanton543]

View attachment 36611
The ball is out here. The ball has not crossed the line here. Maybe his helmet did, but that is not where the ball is as Harris is leaning forward, as is the defender. Here we see Harris's helmet maybe crossing the line.

Having seen this and -to me- agreeing with the call, there is no $#@$ way that those bozos in New York saw this in the 30 seconds it took for them to overturn it. So while it hindsight, it looks - again, to me - like they got it right, I don't think they got it right live. I still think the TD should have stood.

This screenshot is at an angle so you can't really tell where the ball is really. If you had an overhead shot or a straight down the goalline shot then you could say for sure. Parallax error is the fancy term for it.