PostGame Thread Official Post Game Thread- Pats beat the Texans

[50-yard-line]

2004 2014 2016 2018 so 4. that’s a lot of sb wins. Has any team woj the Súper bowl Since 2003 without a pro bowl talent on offense?


a lot of “good receivers”. ok name them on our team?

meyers - average nfl wide receiver
bourne- average nfl wide receiver
aghlor- average nfl wide receiver
harry- below average nfl wide receiver

has any team since 2003 made the Súper bowl with worse receiving talent?

We had a chance to rebuild our offense and we spent all our money on Jonnu smith Hunter Henry kendrick Bourne and Nelson Agholor. We drafted only NKeal Harry and Damian Harris. Is this an acceptable offense?

2001 Troy Brown, David Patten WR. Jermaine Wiggins and Rod Rutledge TE. Atowain Smith JR Redmond, Patrick Pass, and Kevin Faulk RB

2003 Givens, Brown, Branch, Bethel Johnson, Patten WR, Graham and Fauria TE, Smith, Faulk, Mike Cloud, and Patrick Pass RB
2004 Add Dillon and Ben Watson (rookie)

2014 and 2016: the only superstar on those teams was Gronk, who didn't even play in the 16 (17 by date) Superbowl.
2018 Had Gronk.

Those 6 championships, and the only Offensive guys going to Canton are Brady, of course, and Gronk, who played in two Superbowls, didn't get a 100 yards receiving in either (but of course, played a huge role) and didn't lead the team in receiving - Edelman did, in both. Edelman was never considered "elite" around the league, never got an elite contract, and personifies exactly what BB built here with Brady as much as any other player ever. It took Edelman many years to become the guy who was so instrumental in that last run, and he was just one cog in their offense.

Your claim is completely off-base.

After reading your drooling display in the Hunter Henry thread when we signed them, I don't know why anyone should take you seriously with your doomsdaying now.

Go and bathe with the merchants of misery.

 

[Pats2000]

meyers is about to set an nfl record for most catches without a TD...that’s embarrassing. That speaks of his inability to have any type of YAC skills and he possesses 0 tools in the red zone

Bourne “Possession guy”...which does nothing to help our offense score more points. too many possession guys equals field goals no touchdowns

agolor is severely overpaid and overrated. What has he done so far at 11 million per year? Macs longest air yards completion according to next gen stats is 37.2 yards which is second lowest in nfl only to Andy Dalton. agolor has done nothing as a deep threat...nothing. Separation? if he gets good separation how come he doesn’t produce? Corey Davis bigger stronger faster much better hands was available for a few million more.

harry...at least u admit that

”rookie” everyone here says Mac is the real deal. Is he the problem or are his WRs holding him back? Macs YPA 6.5 is very very poor and does not correlate with winning a lot of games

lol, your expectations are out of this world. He's playing the best out of all the rookies. He's not being asked to push the ball down the field a lot. They aren't going for high risk, high reward type plays.

Was Newton a good QB helping his WR's last year, or was he throwing off target and balls right into the dirt?

Is Mac a rookie that has just played his first 5 NFL games ever?

You're acting like these guys all have several years in a system with a veteran QB. Enjoy the process and stop stressing to the point of having an aneurysm

 

[condon84]

Read the whole thread. Someone posted a screen grab that clearly showed the defender's feet on the goalline, his body bent over into the field of play and his arm punching out the ball before the goalline. I had not seen that view clearly during the replays but once I saw that screen grab, yeah, unfotrunatley, it was a fumble.

Even with that shot it still doesn't show that it was conclusive because of the angle. The 'down the line' angle was blocked and that would have conclusively showed a fumble or not. I thought the play should have stood.

 

[Ollie]

meyers is about to set an nfl record for most catches without a TD...that’s embarrassing. That speaks of his inability to have any type of YAC skills and he possesses 0 tools in the red zone

Bourne “Possession guy”...which does nothing to help our offense score more points. too many possession guys equals field goals no touchdowns

agolor is severely overpaid and overrated. What has he done so far at 11 million per year? Macs longest air yards completion according to next gen stats is 37.2 yards which is second lowest in nfl only to Andy Dalton. agolor has done nothing as a deep threat...nothing. Separation? if he gets good separation how come he doesn’t produce? Corey Davis bigger stronger faster much better hands was available for a few million more.

harry...at least u admit that

”rookie” everyone here says Mac is the real deal. Is he the problem or are his WRs holding him back? Macs YPA 6.5 is very very poor and does not correlate with winning a lot of games

Mate calm down. Your dismissive labelling of Bourne as Possession guy says it all. He is proving to be a really effective player IMO who looks great with the ball and pops up with important catches. Meyers and Agholor i think are victims of an offense that had Cam at qb with only 8tds last year and a rookie and an offense this year that is finding its feet slowly. We weren't pushing the ball downfield at all. It's hardly Agholors fault we aren't utillising him a a deep threat which he proved he can be last year.

 

[bresna]

Even with that shot it still doesn't show that it was conclusive because of the angle. The 'down the line' angle was blocked and that would have conclusively showed a fumble or not. I thought the play should have stood.

The angle doesn't matter if you take into account the defender's body position. He is standing on the goal line and bent in half as he reaches around and punches out the ball. The ball is seen coming out with the two players in the position. It doesn't look like that ball crossed the line with that defender standing on it, leaning forward and punching the ball out.

To be clear, I was really upset when they overturned that TD and I didn't want to see that picture but once I did, it's pretty clear that the ball was out before the goal line.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

2001 Troy Brown, David Patten WR. Jermaine Wiggins and Rod Rutledge TE. Atowain Smith JR Redmond, Patrick Pass, and Kevin Faulk RB

2003 Givens, Brown, Branch, Bethel Johnson, Patten WR, Graham and Fauria TE, Smith, Faulk, Mike Cloud, and Patrick Pass RB
2004 Add Dillon and Ben Watson (rookie)

2014 and 2016: the only superstar on those teams was Gronk, who didn't even play in the 16 (17 by date) Superbowl.
2018 Had Gronk.

Those 6 championships, and the only Offensive guys going to Canton are Brady, of course, and Gronk, who played in two Superbowls, didn't get a 100 yards receiving in either (but of course, played a huge role) and didn't lead the team in receiving - Edelman did, in both. Edelman was never considered "elite" around the league, never got an elite contract, and personifies exactly what BB built here with Brady as much as any other player ever. It took Edelman many years to become the guy who was so instrumental in that last run, and he was just one cog in their offense.

Your claim is completely off-base.

After reading your drooling display in the Hunter Henry thread when we signed them, I don't know why anyone should take you seriously with your doomsdaying now.

Go and bathe with the merchants of misery.

i like Hunter Henry but not at the money he’s getting and not at the expense of failing to go after a big time playmaker at WR in the draft

like I said patriots have never been to a super bowl since rule change in 03 without a pro bowl talent on offense

 

[NG Pats Fan]

lol, your expectations are out of this world. He's playing the best out of all the rookies. He's not being asked to push the ball down the field a lot. They aren't going for high risk, high reward type plays.

Was Newton a good QB helping his WR's last year, or was he throwing off target and balls right into the dirt?

Is Mac a rookie that has just played his first 5 NFL games ever?

You're acting like these guys all have several years in a system with a veteran QB. Enjoy the process and stop stressing to the point of having an aneurysm

So what’s your expectations of this team?

we are in the second year of a rebuild and are 9-12 since

 

[NG Pats Fan]

2001 Troy Brown, David Patten WR. Jermaine Wiggins and Rod Rutledge TE. Atowain Smith JR Redmond, Patrick Pass, and Kevin Faulk RB

2003 Givens, Brown, Branch, Bethel Johnson, Patten WR, Graham and Fauria TE, Smith, Faulk, Mike Cloud, and Patrick Pass RB
2004 Add Dillon and Ben Watson (rookie)

2014 and 2016: the only superstar on those teams was Gronk, who didn't even play in the 16 (17 by date) Superbowl.
2018 Had Gronk.

Those 6 championships, and the only Offensive guys going to Canton are Brady, of course, and Gronk, who played in two Superbowls, didn't get a 100 yards receiving in either (but of course, played a huge role) and didn't lead the team in receiving - Edelman did, in both. Edelman was never considered "elite" around the league, never got an elite contract, and personifies exactly what BB built here with Brady as much as any other player ever. It took Edelman many years to become the guy who was so instrumental in that last run, and he was just one cog in their offense.

Your claim is completely off-base.

After reading your drooling display in the Hunter Henry thread when we signed them, I don't know why anyone should take you seriously with your doomsdaying now.

Go and bathe with the merchants of misery.

Edelman in his prime is far better than Bourne meyers or agolor could dream of becoming.

you sound like another team bill apologist.


“What bb built here”. What can he build without Brady? You say the patriot way Regarding Edelman not taking more money elsewhere. So brady takes Hometown discounts for years while belichick botched the drafts to win more super bowls, then BB leaves Brady high and dry when it comes to deflate gate

 

[Pats2000]

So what’s your expectations of this team?

we are in the second year of a rebuild and are 9-12 since

We are in our first year of a rebuild. Let's be real, Cam was a stop gap until they could figure out their QB situation.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

We are in our first year of a rebuild. Let's be real, Cam was a stop gap until they could figure out their QB situation.

you and i both sat through last year. 7-9 counts.

 

[borg]

Edelman in his prime is far better than Bourne meyers or agolor could dream of becoming.

It took Edelman 5 years to prove himself catching passes from a 13 year vet/All-World QB.
But....after 5 games catching balls from a rook QB operating on a tight leash, the new WRs have been tried, judged, and sentenced.

This place never disappoints

 

[NG Pats Fan]

It took Edelman 5 years to prove himself catching passes from a 13 year vet/All-World QB.
But....after 5 games catching balls from a rook QB operating on a tight leash, the new WRs have been tried, judged, and sentenced.

This place never disappoints

these new WRs have flashed no potential for YAC ability which caps the ceiling of this team imo

 

[condon84]

What the Texans did leading up to this botched punt was hilarious -





It reminded me of the Colts epic punt play against us years ago -

 

[Pats2000]

you and i both sat through last year. 7-9 counts.

I dont count it. You can if you want. It doesn't really matter

 

[NG Pats Fan]

I dont count it. You can if you want. It doesn't really matter

So Bb gets a free pass for last year?

 

[slash83]

these new WRs have flashed no potential for YAC ability which caps the ceiling of this team imo

Bourne has looked pretty damn shifty after the catch making people miss.

 

[Pats2000]

these new WRs have flashed no potential for YAC ability which caps the ceiling of this team imo

The Pats are middle of the pack in YAC. Number 18 of 32 teams. Part of that is having a rookie QB.

 

[Pats2000]

So Bb gets a free pass for last year?

The guy who has been a part of teams that win 8 superbowls, 6 with the Pats and 9 appearances gets a pass, yes

 

[jdlboot14]

So everybody is in here whining today?

Supposedly everyone knew about this rebuild the team is in. Accepting a mediocre year, like 8-9 or 9-8.
But soon as it plays out that way - where an ENTIRE new offense isn't busting the league people start hating on BB's pickups, and glorifying the guys who once were. Isn't that the way it goes. If we did that in 2000, we'd have fired Bill and never seen Brady become the goat.
Give these guys a chance. There's talent all over the place, but it takes time and coaching to turn it into a winning team.

 

[Gumby]

This is a really good post. Thank you.

Yeah the team has fallen off a cliff since the 2nd half of the 2019 season. And losing a lot of quality staff people is certainly a factor.

I think looking at this team which has been 11-16 since Thanksgiving'19, it shouldn't be controversial to say the staff around BB is not good.

1. front office drafting has been bad for several recent years except for the last 1-2 drafts. Ziegler is in over his head. Giving away Gilmore and spending $300M in free agency (164M guaranteed) seems like there isn't an overall strategy. Elevate Eliot Wolf and also Groh.
2. offense has averaged under 20 points per game since Thanksgiving'19. 31st in red zone offense now and 31st in run offense. 24th in scoring. This looks way too much like the Denver'10 loser offense and league-worst St Louis'11 offense. I'm all for bringing back O'Shea or O'Brien at offensive coordinator. Daboll is too hot as an oc and is a HC candidate, we can't get him now.
3. The Oline coach shouldn't even be in the NFL, going from Youngstown State to coaching the Patriot OLine? gtfo of here, who hired him? Stop with the oc's subIQ ohio/indiana connections, they make the organization way worse.

.