Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Bucs beat the Pats

[Rob0729]

We'd have a better ability to figure out the blame pie if the OL had started the season playing well and then declined (as with the OL in 2019). Because it's been a struggle from the start, we're left trying to read the tea leaves of both what we see on the field and what we see/don't see from the coaching.

You seem to be basically making it 0% Jones. I don't. We might as well just leave it there.

I am not giving Jones 0% of the blame. People have pointed to individual plays where he was more responsible for the QB pressure than the o-line. But he gets a very small piece of the blame pie.

And obviously the Patriots coaching staff puts a lion share of the blame on the o-line because most of the starters and some of the back ups have been benched (at least one player a game) for poor play. If the coaching staff thought it was on Jones, they wouldn't bench the linemen for his mistakes.

 

[catent]

I assumed that his left elbow was down in this frame. Really tough to tell whether it's down or whether Brady's still in the air from this shot. If you compare Brady's elbow to Van Noy's Helmet, which is clearly on the ground, it looks like the elbow hadn't touched the ground yet.

The elbow doesn’t matter - the down by contact rule states “any part of the arm above the wrist”. We saw this years ago when AHern was down by contact before fumbling but his elbow hadn’t touched yet. Brady was 1/2 yard short of the 1st down, I have little doubt.

 

[Deus Irae]

I am not giving Jones 0% of the blame. People have pointed to individual plays where he was more responsible for the QB pressure than the o-line. But he gets a very small piece of the blame pie.

And obviously the Patriots coaching staff puts a lion share of the blame on the o-line because most of the starters and some of the back ups have been benched (at least one player a game) for poor play. If the coaching staff thought it was on Jones, they wouldn't bench the linemen for his mistakes.

Leave the benching stuff of it, because it's a non-starter. In the NFL, it's easy to bench an OL for a couple of penalties, and you can put him back in without a problem. It's not so easy to bench a QB for a couple of bad plays. If BB had benched Jones for blowing a couple of plays, this board, and the entire New England region, would be focused on nothing else.

If they thought the kid was ready for more downfield throwing, they'd be doing more downfield throwing. We can be sure of that, because we saw it in 2019. You're blaming the line. I'm saying that it's probably much more of a combination, and that the play calling reflects that. So there's no need to continue on, because there's no way for us to come to a resolution without further information.

 

[Guts]

It was great seeing his old teammates showing him love and respect. I'm glad this game is over and we can put all the nonsense behind us. It was a cathartic experience for all involved. Pretty sure his old team doesn't view him as a traitor.

Not one teammate of him has ever said anything bad about him always praise and gratitude towards him. Even infamous AH wrote in a letter in jail that he loved TB

 

[Guts]

Next test for Mac, put up 30 points. This need to happen at some point. 20 point a game won't get you far, heck you could have that same production with Newton.

Not with the current state of our offensive line

 

[captain stone]

Say what you please about what Brady has done re: business over the last few years, especially the last year-1/2, but that post-game sequence shows once again that he still has more class than 95% of the jocks in pro sports.

 

[Rob0729]

If they thought the kid was ready for more downfield throwing, they'd be doing more downfield throwing. We can be sure of that, because we saw it in 2019. You're blaming the line. I'm saying that it's probably much more of a combination, and that the play calling reflects that. So there's no need to continue on, because there's no way for us to come to a resolution without further information.

And leave the benching stuff of it, because it's a non-starter. In the NFL, it's easy to bench an OL for a couple of penalties, and you can put him back in without a problem. It's not so easy to bench a QB for a couple of bad plays. If BB had benched Jones for blowing a couple of plays, this board, and the entire New England region, would be focused on nothing else.

I thought you were talking about the o-line issues.

I am sure the Pats' coaching staff confidence in Jones four games in and wanting to bring him along has some to do with it and possibly he isn't confident to throw down field whether he doesn't think he has enough time or he doesn't trust his receivers or he doesn't trust himself. But I see it being a lack of confidence in his down the field abilities since he did throw deep in Alabama (Trent Dilfer who has worked with all the rookie QBs for years says Jones has the best deep ball of all the rookies) and he has a significant amount of confidence in his ability.

All that said, I think it is at least 90% the players around him. The guy has had 32 QB pressures the last two games (a few were on Jones). I can't remember the last time I saw a QB be so much under pressure by the pass rush without imploding. And you had Jonnu Smith drop like four or five passes right into his hands last week. And I am not sure any receiver is getting open with any consistency.

Bedard made a good point today that Jones doesn't have a fast slot receiver like Edelman or Welker and probably desperately needs one. Meyers is a good receiver, but isn't fast like Edelman or Welker were. He suggested maybe Bourne could be in that role.

 

[Tbone7112000]

Next test for Mac, put up 30 points. This need to happen at some point. 20 point a game won't get you far, heck you could have that same production with Newton.

I, for one, am glad I don't have to watch Cam Newton (of the 8 Touchdown passes for a complete season) ever take a snap for this team again. Mac looks the part of a franchise QB and will only get better.

 

[DaBruinz]

Anyone watch the post game interview with Brady. IMHO, he made some very interesting comments. Including about how New England is still home and how they'll be back to watch games..

 

[DaBruinz]

Bedard made a good point today that Jones doesn't have a fast slot receiver like Edelman or Welker and probably desperately needs one. Meyers is a good receiver, but isn't fast like Edelman or Welker were. He suggested maybe Bourne could be in that role.

The problem is that neither Edelman nor Welker were "fast" slot receivers. Fast implies SPEED. Edelman and Welker had agility or quickness, not speed. They had the ability to change directions on a dime and their route running/ timing was precise. Because they could change direction like that, many times they were able to lose whomever was covering them by a half step or more. Which was more than enough for Brady to find them and get them the ball.

Meyers might be half a step behind Edelman or Welker in the quickness area. But he's still getting open. And, most of the time, if he's the target, he's catching the ball.

From what I've seen, they've used Bourne more outside than they have inside. Which is perplexing since being in the slot was supposed to be his bread and butter.

I am still perplexed as to why we're not seeing more back shoulder fades in the Red Zone. With Henry, Smith, Meyers, and Bourne, you have 4 receivers over 6'2. This was a problem last year with Cam as well. Not that I believe Cam could throw it, but the offense misused the players it had in the Red Zone.

 

[Deus Irae]

Bedard made a good point today that Jones doesn't have a fast slot receiver like Edelman or Welker and probably desperately needs one. Meyers is a good receiver, but isn't fast like Edelman or Welker were. He suggested maybe Bourne could be in that role.

Bedard was talking quicks, not speed (I know you get that, but someone casually glancing might have missed it, so I'm repeating it), and I absolutely agree with him.




The rest is just going to lead to more wheel spinning, so have a great night.

 

[PScottman]

It's tough. I came here for all the great draft posters, some of the best posters on the site and they never came back. I've been thinking about my time here as well. We'll see what happens I guess.

Used to belong to a Celtics site/list serve which was content-wise like this one - it actually died on a somewhat similar line regarding GM execution - one faction was Ainge sucks and is destroying the team (it actually started with Pitino...which I think is ironically "funny cuz its probably true") while another faction was more patient that it would take time for the old regime purge and then rebuild before that analysis could be best accomplished.

Ultimately the "Fellowship of the Miserable" (ultimately Pitino was right about one thing...) drove away all of the content posters (balanced both positive and negative with varied viewpoints) with wave after wave of "the team sucks", "if they only had so and so", "Ainge cant draft", and the site ended up defunct surprisingly right before the Cs won in 08.

Choice is a great thing, sometimes the best of things, but it cuts both ways. When all that's created is an echo chamber of constant negativity, ultimately those choices made by others can make the end result a pretty lonely place.

 

[VectorPrime]

Anyone watch the post game interview with Brady. IMHO, he made some very interesting comments. Including about how New England is still home and how they'll be back to watch games..

It means he won’t pull a Peyton and barely acknowledge he was ever a Colt.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

The elbow doesn’t matter - the down by contact rule states “any part of the arm above the wrist”. We saw this years ago when AHern was down by contact before fumbling but his elbow hadn’t touched yet. Brady was 1/2 yard short of the 1st down, I have little doubt.

Usually, Ernie Adams tells Bill when to challenge...

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Anyone watch the post game interview with Brady. IMHO, he made some very interesting comments. Including about how New England is still home and how they'll be back to watch games..

He said he'll be part of the area, but not in what capacity...it's interesting he said those things after the 20-minute conversation with Bill.

 

[DaBruinz]

It means he won’t pull a Peyton and barely acknowledge he was ever a Colt.

It sounded to me like he had plans to be back in New England post-career..

 

[DaBruinz]

Wow. What a dumb play. Kudos for the find.

Van Noy has been underwhelming to say the least. Only four pressures & 1 sack. Let’s Kamara score rather than attempting to cover him because bracket coverage wasn’t there. Commits a DPI on a RB not known for his receiving skills. Throw in this play & he hasn’t been playing disciplined.

Hard to keep Uche off the field for Van Noy if this continues IMO.

There have been other plays in other games where Van Noy has looked bad as well..

 

[ralmat55]

Greg Bedard , after looking at some film of the Bucs game, thought the Collins move was more about Hightower than anyone. Said High was wearing a knee brace and not moving very well in Bucs game

 

[Rob0729]

The problem is that neither Edelman nor Welker were "fast" slot receivers. Fast implies SPEED. Edelman and Welker had agility or quickness, not speed. They had the ability to change directions on a dime and their route running/ timing was precise. Because they could change direction like that, many times they were able to lose whomever was covering them by a half step or more. Which was more than enough for Brady to find them and get them the ball.

Meyers might be half a step behind Edelman or Welker in the quickness area. But he's still getting open. And, most of the time, if he's the target, he's catching the ball.

From what I've seen, they've used Bourne more outside than they have inside. Which is perplexing since being in the slot was supposed to be his bread and butter.

I am still perplexed as to why we're not seeing more back shoulder fades in the Red Zone. With Henry, Smith, Meyers, and Bourne, you have 4 receivers over 6'2. This was a problem last year with Cam as well. Not that I believe Cam could throw it, but the offense misused the players it had in the Red Zone.

Yeah, I meant quick. Of course neither of those guys are fast.

But the fact that they are not doing fade routes with Jones tells me that they are just managing him. Because fade routes are usually relatively low risk throws. Most of the times when those throws are off the ball either goes out of bounds or to a spot where no one can catch it. The interception rate on fade routes are low. So even if they didn’t trust Jones, it wouldn’t stop them from throwing fades.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Yeah, I meant quick. Of course neither of those guys are fast.

But the fact that they are not doing fade routes with Jones tells me that they are just managing him. Because fade routes are usually relatively low risk throws. Most of the times when those throws are off the ball either goes out of bounds or to a spot where no one can catch it. The interception rate on fade routes are low. So even if they didn’t trust Jones, it wouldn’t stop them from throwing fades.

Jakobi (7.07 3-cone) and Welker (7.09 3-cone) are not especially quick. I never understood how Welker looked so quick when his 3-cone is not especially quick like Edelman.

I agree on the wades. I think back shoulder throws too. Maybe they are working the center and shorter areas of the field and then will expand to wider and deeper parts of the field over time? Seems like over management to me but maybe I don't understand what they are doing.