DRAFT DAY DISCUSSION OFFICIAL 2021 NFL DRAFT - ROUND 1 - Discussion Thread

[mgteich]

I'll be very brief.

I was right and @Ring 6 was wrong. It wasn't even close.

It was very close. If one of the teams that was trying to move up succeeded in trading with MINN, then we wouldn't have a QB. You don't seem to care. All you care about is winning an argument with Andy. Do you buy insurance. That's what it would have been to trade up after Fields was picked.

Andy's argument was that we need to do whatever it took to get a QB in the first round. Things went well. SF set the stage by drafted Lance. As long as there were 2 QB's out there, THERE WAS NO NEED to give up a huge amount of assets. However, for me, one Fields was picked, the gamble was on.

 

[Deus Irae]

Listening to BB's conference: Pretty much every player they consider draftable got one or more zoom calls from the team.

 

[long distance]

It was very close. If one of the teams that was trying to move up succeeded in trading with MINN, then we wouldn't have a QB. You don't seem to care. All you care about is winning an argument with Andy. Do you buy insurance. That's what it would have been to trade up after Fields was picked.

Andy's argument was that we need to do whatever it took to get a QB in the first round. Things went well. SF set the stage by drafted Lance. As long as there were 2 QB's out there, THERE WAS NO NEED to give up a huge amount of assets. However, for me, one Fields was picked, the gamble was on.

Ok, thats it, im taking you off my poker team..

 

[NormZauchin]

Well, for the record I'm really excited about the Jones selection for the Pats.

I admit, that in the modern era, despite being the clear GOAT Brady may not be the prototype of the most successful MODERN prototypes, he may simply be one of a kind. Many of the most successful modern quarterbacks have strong running skills as a dual threat.

And, who knows if he will be successful, there is only about a 50% "success" rate (meaning not totally being out the the league after a few years) for first round quarterbacks.

But is is clear why they selected him with his similarities to QBs like Brady and Brees:

* A fanatical competitor, although not really someone that (currently at least) worries about looking like a super hero at the combine (note the similarities between the shirtless pictures of the two at the same stage).
* Unbelievable confidence.
* Not an amazing running or jumping athlete but someone with great hand eye coordination and GREAT pocket footwork perhaps learned from another sport (for Brady it was baseball, for Brees and now Jones it was tennis).
* Very hard worker and a fabulous leader of his team.
* Super smart.
* Super fast at football decisions and intelligence.

The main differences as far as I can tell are: He was great at other sports (tennis) but not quite at the level of Brady (who could have been an all-pro catcher) and Brees (who could have been a tennis star). He is a very hard worker but I'm not sure if he has the level of seriousness that someone like Brady has (he is a bit of a joker with teammates, he likes practical jokes and so forth).

Honestly apart from everyone assuming the new five star recruit would take his place last year (which he definitely did not let happen) he probably hasn't had the same level of character-building adversity as someone like Brady.

So, who knows? .....But, I'm still excited

Jones better not try playing a practical joke on Bill.

 

[Joker]

It was very close. If one of the teams that was trying to move up succeeded in trading with MINN, then we wouldn't have a QB. You don't seem to care. All you care about is winning an argument with Andy. Do you buy insurance. That's what it would have been to trade up after Fields was picked.

Andy's argument was that we need to do whatever it took to get a QB in the first round. Things went well. SF set the stage by drafted Lance. As long as there were 2 QB's out there, THERE WAS NO NEED to give up a huge amount of assets. However, for me, one Fields was picked, the gamble was on.

His argument was , for MONTHS, that we had to give up three #1 picks, a couple of #2's and players or the draft was a total catastrophe...he spent all that time hitting anybody that opined different possibilities with "disagrees"...every single day, day after day. He was WRONG. Don't play that "it was close!!! Almost real bad!!!" crap. What occurred is ALL the is important. I can what if this and what if that into us getting ten first rounders but it's completely meaningless. There is ONLY what happened. In this case, as in the case of the Orchids of Asia fiasco...he was 100% W-R-O-N-G yet he will NEVER admit it

 

[Jim Beankie]

Great work, ESPN. Worldwide Leader stuff right there. I had recorded the ABC broadcast and just watched the Pats portion, and at least the puff piece version got it right (and showed that Pats picked in 17 seconds?!). Should've gone with that, instead.

 

[NormZauchin]

I was very happy with the Jones pick. Given Belichick's friendship with Saban, I cannot believe that BB would have made this choice without the full endorsement of the best college coach in the nation and someone who has sent more players to the NFL in the past decade than any other coach. Saban knows what it takes for a college player to excel in the big leagues and he likely told Bill that Jones has the right stuff. My only concern is that Jones won't have elite wide receivers to target like he had at Alabama.

 

[Ring 6]

It was very close. If one of the teams that was trying to move up succeeded in trading with MINN, then we wouldn't have a QB. You don't seem to care. All you care about is winning an argument with Andy. Do you buy insurance. That's what it would have been to trade up after Fields was picked.

Andy's argument was that we need to do whatever it took to get a QB in the first round. Things went well. SF set the stage by drafted Lance. As long as there were 2 QB's out there, THERE WAS NO NEED to give up a huge amount of assets. However, for me, one Fields was picked, the gamble was on.

Exactly. The job was to get a QB and do whatever it took. As it turned out it took staying at 15. I wouldn’t have gambled and ultimately in hindsight, I would have overpaid but the need was so severe overpaying was much more acceptable than missing out.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I was very happy with the Jones pick. Given Belichick's friendship with Saban, I cannot believe that BB would have made this choice without the full endorsement of the best college coach in the nation and someone who has sent more players to the NFL in the past decade than any other coach. Saban knows what it takes for a college player to excel in the big leagues and he likely told Bill that Jones has the right stuff. My only concern is that Jones won't have elite wide receivers to target like he had at Alabama.

He actually could dish on at least four QBs in this draft—Jones, Fields, Mond, and Trask.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Exactly. The job was to get a QB and do whatever it took. As it turned out it took staying at 15. I wouldn’t have gambled and ultimately in hindsight, I would have overpaid but the need was so severe overpaying was much more acceptable than missing out.

One thing we don't know is this: how much did those other teams want to move down? It's quite possible the quoted prices were high enough for Belichick that he assumed that they wouldn't be willing to trade down further/other teams wouldn't trade up.

 

[Ring 6]

His argument was , for MONTHS, that we had to give up three #1 picks, a couple of #2's and players or the draft was a total catastrophe...he spent all that time hitting anybody that opined different possibilities with "disagrees"...every single day, day after day. He was WRONG. Don't play that "it was close!!! Almost real bad!!!" crap. What occurred is ALL the is important. I can what if this and what if that into us getting ten first rounders but it's completely meaningless. There is ONLY what happened. In this case, as in the case of the Orchids of Asia fiasco...he was 100% W-R-O-N-G yet he will NEVER admit it

My argument was we had to do whatever it takes to get a QB. I felt it needed to include a trade up and would have done it to not get left out. Hindsight is great, but if someone had traded up in front of us to take jones we would have been screwed.

 

[Bill Lee]

Well, for the record I'm really excited about the Jones selection for the Pats.

I admit, that in the modern era, despite being the clear GOAT Brady may not be the prototype of the most successful MODERN prototypes, he may simply be one of a kind. Many of the most successful modern quarterbacks have strong running skills as a dual threat.

And, who knows if he will be successful, there is only about a 50% "success" rate (meaning not totally being out the the league after a few years) for first round quarterbacks.

But is is clear why they selected him with his similarities to QBs like Brady and Brees:

* A fanatical competitor, although not really someone that (currently at least) worries about looking like a super hero at the combine (note the similarities between the shirtless pictures of the two at the same stage).
* Unbelievable confidence.
* Not an amazing running or jumping athlete but someone with great hand eye coordination and GREAT pocket footwork perhaps learned from another sport (for Brady it was baseball, for Brees and now Jones it was tennis).
* Very hard worker and a fabulous leader of his team.
* Super smart.
* Super fast at football decisions and intelligence.

The main differences as far as I can tell are: He was great at other sports (tennis) but not quite at the level of Brady (who could have been an all-pro catcher) and Brees (who could have been a tennis star). He is a very hard worker but I'm not sure if he has the level of seriousness that someone like Brady has (he is a bit of a joker with teammates, he likes practical jokes and so forth).

Honestly apart from everyone assuming the new five star recruit would take his place last year (which he definitely did not let happen) he probably hasn't had the same level of character-building adversity as someone like Brady.

So, who knows? .....But, I'm still excited

I think Mahomes is a unicorn, someone who could be an excellent pure pocket passer but also can run as well as any QB ever which makes him really dangerous. Hmm, TB12 just took him down in the last Super Bowl, and took him down on his way to winning it all in 2018 as well. +2 for the pocket passer who can't run.

I worry about running QBs as they age. I know the NFL does everything they can to protect them, but strange things happen when you are on the move. Cowboys stank last year because Dak Prescott injured his leg on a running play. Now we'll see how willing and able he will be to run this season. If he can't run any more, can he adapt to being a pure pocket passer?

I think the league is going more run heavy because a lot of the college programs just find it easier to implement a running offense. Passing requires a lot of coordination, timing and intelligence, all of which takes a lot of coaching talent and time. Since we have so many QBs leaving school early, they can't invest as much in each of them.

In short, I'm not worried because the rest of the league is getting QBs that can run.

 

[Joker]

My argument was we had to do whatever it takes to get a QB. I felt it needed to include a trade up and would have done it to not get left out. Hindsight is great, but if someone had traded up in front of us to take jones we would have been screwed.

yeah, that's why you gave up after the 4th pick. There is an archive here...you get this right? YOU gave up...it was a disaster in your opinion at that point. You were ...here it comes again...W-R-O-N-G. Now you're trying to act like Belichick agreed with YOU all along...holy krist, YOU had ZERO to do with any decisions being mulled by BB or the staff but now you're claiming YOU were right all along. Do you remember ANY of the posts you make or does everything that exists flow from the mind of Andy Johnson? Tell everyone now...what's YOUR take tomorrow? and what will be the next disaster if BB doesn't pick the players YOU want?

 

[Deus Irae]

I admit, that in the modern era, despite being the clear GOAT Brady may not be the prototype of the most successful MODERN prototypes, he may simply be one of a kind. Many of the most successful modern quarterbacks have strong running skills as a dual threat.

Non-running pocket passers who have either been to SBs or been considered top level QBs in the Brady era.

Peyton
Eli
Brees
Rivers
Ryan
Warner
Goff
Johnson



I may be missing one or more, but the point is that the non-running pocket QB has been the most successful style in the modern game.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I’m in the Bay Area and the local sports shows followed the draft. Watching Lynch and Shanahan take a victory lap while every slobbers over this “steal” is truly nauseating. The appropriate story is how long you give Lance to prove these two didn’t make one of the worst trades in memory.

 

[Bill Lee]

I'll be very brief.

I was right and @Ring 6 was wrong. It wasn't even close.

I'll be very brief.

@Ring 6 will NEVER admit you were right and he was wrong.

The sun will go supernova before that will happen.

 

[Deus Irae]

Some reality about those young "modern QBs...


Brady:




Mayfield:




Mahomes:

 

[jmt57]

God, Vikings fans are such dorks.

I have met many likeable people from Minnesota, but I have to admit that I cannot remember a single person from that state that was not a dork.

 

[Ring 6]

yeah, that's why you gave up after the 4th pick. There is an archive here...you get this right? YOU gave up...it was a disaster in your opinion at that point. You were ...here it comes again...W-R-O-N-G. Now you're trying to act like Belichick agreed with YOU all along...holy krist, YOU had ZERO to do with any decisions being mulled by BB or the staff but now you're claiming YOU were right all along. Do you remember ANY of the posts you make or does everything that exists flow from the mind of Andy Johnson? Tell everyone now...what's YOUR take tomorrow? and what will be the next disaster if BB doesn't pick the players YOU want?

I said they have to get a qb. I’ve said it for months. I said if they didn’t it would be a terrible decision. When the 4th QB went because someone else traded up and we were down to 1 QB and 3 picks in front of us, then, only then did I make a negative comment.

Provably the only time I have ever been adamant about a decision and criticized in advance the potential decision was this time. And guess what, I wasn’t criticizing belichick at all as it turns out because he did what I said he needed to. So ultimately I was criticizing the people who wanted belichick to do what he didn’t.
I know even you consider yourself a clown but at least try to follow along a little.

 

[Ring 6]

One thing we don't know is this: how much did those other teams want to move down? It's quite possible the quoted prices were high enough for Belichick that he assumed that they wouldn't be willing to trade down further/other teams wouldn't trade up.

But he could have traded with giants to make sure he secured the QB and Dallas traded back for peanuts.
We don’t know and ultimately it worked out. I would have traded up because missing out would have been a bigger disaster than trading up without having to.
Most people expected 4 QBs in the top 5 and those sand people are acting like they knew what would happen all along.