OC Bill O'Brien news, speculation & opinions thread

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Bill O'Brien is staying with the Patriots

Umm, what about continuing to give Sandusky access to the facilities, etc. after that incident and after he had "retired"? Everyone's cool with that? And with bringing teenage boys to bowl games as a VIP?

That's a straw-man argument. It is possible to NOT be OK with what happened AND to NOT be in favor of lowering the boom on Penn State football.

If you look, most cases in which teams get punished involve issues that could, in theory, create a competitive imbalance (i.e., schools landing players they might not have, using ineligible players, etc.). And even then they're inconsistent (see: Newton, Cam).

 

[Garbanza]

I think O'Brien is "meh." He could stay, he could go, don't think there would be a drop off or a trend up either way. What I do find interesting is why anyone - besides money and ego? - would want to be the Head Coach of Pedophile/Rapist U.

 

[ProudestRyno]

I think O'Brien is "meh." He could stay, he could go, don't think there would be a drop off or a trend up either way. What I do find interesting is why anyone - besides money and ego? - would want to be the Head Coach of Pedophile/Rapist U.

Your opinion is inconsistent. How can he be "meh" but there be no room for improvement if he goes? Or in your words "no trend up".

 

[The Brandon Five]

Re: Bill O'Brien is staying with the Patriots

That's a straw-man argument. It is possible to NOT be OK with what happened AND to NOT be in favor of lowering the boom on Penn State football.

If you look, most cases in which teams get punished involve issues that could, in theory, create a competitive imbalance (i.e., schools landing players they might not have, using ineligible players, etc.). And even then they're inconsistent (see: Newton, Cam).

I mean the NCAA. I don't expect them to be OK with it. Your choices are your own.

 

[QB12]

Re: Bill O'Brien is staying with the Patriots

Before you read the following, and dismiss it out of hand, consider that BB must have been in the loop somehow before this interview was planned.

The college recruiting period directly conflicts with the NFL playoffs, especially the closer a team gets to February and the Super Bowl. What do you think are the chances that, as BB was being informed of, or gave permission for BOB to interview, that he has made contact with Josh McDaniels regarding his rejoining the team NOW, ASAP, in case BOB bolts now for Penn State?

 

[Maker's Muppet]

Re: Bill O'Brien is staying with the Patriots

I think this is the most telling statement right here, and the 100% sole reason why the University will be punished in some form.

They failed to report a very serious offense that involved the physical and mental well-being of a student.

PSU police was notified by one of the parents of the alleged victims.

As a current PSU student majoring in Criminal Justice, I bet we could go back and forth all night with this one; but out of respect to the forum and thread, let's just say that I respectfully disagree but certainly hope you're correct.

You have your information totally confused.

1. There is no law in Pennsylvania requiring you to report. There is no failure to report. Some states have it, PA doesn't. That's why there is no charge of failure to report by the prosecutor.

2. The kid raped in the showers was not a PSU student. he was 10 years old.

3. The case we are talking about in 2002 did not involve a parent informing PSU of anything. 2002 involved the eyewitness testimony of Mike McQueary who saw Sandusky raping the kid. You are thinking of a 1998-1999 case. In that case, the parent and head of campus police (the same guy who is currently being charged with perjury, his name is Schultz) called the State College police, the Centre County district attorney, and the state children protection services. They conducted a sting operation on Sandusky as police and agents hid in another room as they recorded a confrontation between the parent and Sandusky. Even though the confrontation was incriminating, the state child protection services and the district attorney chose not to proceed.

This is a matter of agreeing or disagreeing between the two of us.

I'm just trying to set the facts straight so at least we know what is being discussed here.

 

[Maker's Muppet]

Re: Bill O'Brien is staying with the Patriots

Umm, what about continuing to give Sandusky access to the facilities, etc. after that incident and after he had "retired"? Everyone's cool with that? And with bringing teenage boys to bowl games as a VIP?

And what would you have them do? Emeritus status is granted to longtime employees in good standing. After he retired and was cleared by the State Child Protection Services and District Attorney, then what?

After 2002, he was banned from bringing children to campus and, please tell me, how can Sandusky be prevented from going to a bowl game? He was a coach at the time of the bowl game. That happened back in 1998-1999 prior to his retirement. And the kid went to the bowl game with him and stayed in the same hotel suite WITH Sandusky's wife and all his children. So, saying that PSU allowed Sandusky to go to a bowl game with a child and the team AFTER they found out about him is not true. He took the kid to the bowl game back when he was still a coach at PSU. Not after.

 

[Maker's Muppet]

i dont think that program is going to get any good prospects for some time, i cant see any coach wanting that job or any kid wanting to play football there

Here's their commitment list: Yahoo Sports: Rivals.com 2012 Penn St. Commitments

They have four top level recruits and a QB that many people think very highly of.

These are 5 coveted players. They have options, they have scholarship offers from schools like Oregon, Wisconsin, Alabama, Florida, Iowa, North Carolina, Michigan and Notre Dame, among others.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Re: Bill O'Brien is staying with the Patriots

And what would you have them do? Emeritus status is granted to longtime employees in good standing. After he retired and was cleared by the State Child Protection Services and District Attorney, then what?

So every retired employee has access to the locker rooms, etc? Cool story.

After 2002, he was banned from bringing children to campus and,

That was four years overdue.

please tell me, how can Sandusky be prevented from going to a bowl game? He was a coach at the time of the bowl game. That happened back in 1998-1999 prior to his retirement. And the kid went to the bowl game with him and stayed in the same hotel suite WITH Sandusky's wife and all his children. So, saying that PSU allowed Sandusky to go to a bowl game with a child and the team AFTER they found out about him is not true. He took the kid to the bowl game back when he was still a coach at PSU. Not after.

Incorrect. Victim 4 went to two bowl games. One in Jan. 1998 (while he was a coach and before any of this came to Paterno's attention) and one in Dec. 1999 (after it was reported and after the "retirement").

Penn State Scandal Timeline: Key Dates In The Jerry Sandusky Sex Abuse Case

Jan. 1, 1998 – Victim 4 is listed, along with Sandusky's wife, as a member of Sandusky's family party for the 1998 Outback Bowl.

1998 – Victim 6 is taken into the locker rooms and showers when he is 11 years old. When Victim 6 is dropped off at home, his hair is wet from showering with Sandusky. His mother reports the incident to the university police, who investigate.

Detective Ronald Schreffler testifies that he and State College Police Department Detective Ralph Ralston, with the consent of the mother of Victim 6, eavesdrop on two conversations the mother of Victim 6 has with Sandusky. Sandusky says he has showered with other boys and Victim 6's mother tries to make Sandusky promise never to shower with a boy again but he will not. At the end of the second conversation, after Sandusky is told he cannot see Victim 6 anymore, Schreffler testifies Sandusky says, "I understand. I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness. I know I won't get it from you. I wish I were dead."

Jerry Lauro, an investigator with the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, testifies he and Schreffler interviewed Sandusky, and that Sandusky admits showering naked with Victim 6, admits to hugging Victim 6 while in the shower and admits that it was wrong.

The case is closed after then-Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar decides there will be no criminal charge.

June 1999 – Sandusky retires from Penn State but still holds emeritus status.

Dec. 28, 1999 – Victim 4 is listed, along with Sandusky's wife, as a member of Sandusky's family party for the 1999 Alamo Bowl.

What does it mean that the kid was listed as a member of Sandusky's family party?

 

[ProudestRyno]

Is there a good reason why this thread no longer has anything to do with BOB?

 

[The Brandon Five]

Is there a good reason why this thread no longer has anything to do with BOB?

Because he is thinking about coaching at Pederast State?

 

[Maker's Muppet]

Re: Bill O'Brien is staying with the Patriots

So every retired employee has access to the locker rooms, etc? Cool story.

Every retired tenured/emeritus professor, YES. Which Sandusky was. They have access to old offices and the campus. They are given an office inside their old department. That's why you see emeritus professors maintaining offices on campus after they're retired. Some even continue to teach on a part-time basis.

. Victim 4 went to two bowl games. One in Jan. 1998 (while he was a coach and before any of this came to Paterno's attention) and one in Dec. 1999 (after it was reported and after the "retirement").

You're quibbling now. The point is, this happened prior to the rape in 2002. 1998 was reported to the authorities. The authorities said there was nothing there. You made it seem as though he continued to bring kids to bowls after the eyewitness reported a rape.

url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/penn-state-scandal-timeline-jerry-sandusky_n_1084204.html]Penn State Scandal Timeline: Key Dates In The Jerry Sandusky Sex Abuse Case[/url]

What does it mean that the kid was listed as a member of Sandusky's family party?

What do you mean what does it mean? If he brings a kid to stay in his suite with his wife and all their children, what do you want the PSU coaches to do? I should think my point is rather obvious.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Re: Bill O'Brien is staying with the Patriots

Every retired tenured/emeritus professor, YES. Which Sandusky was. They have access to old offices and the campus. They are given an office inside their old department. That's why you see emeritus professors maintaining offices on campus after they're retired. Some even continue to teach on a part-time basis.

Then I question the wisdom of giving him emeritus status. His "retirement" came after Joe told he would not be the head coach. Given that it was widely assumed that Sandusky was the head-coach-in-waiting, why the change of heart in the Spring of 1999? If he had concerns that led to that, why continue to give him special treatment and grant him Emeritus status?

You're quibbling now. The point is, this happened prior to the rape in 2002. 1998 was reported to the authorities. The authorities said there was nothing there. You made it seem as though he continued to bring kids to bowls after the eyewitness reported a rape.

No, the point is that people continue to look the other way after the first incident brought this to everyone's attention. No, Paterno couldn't stop Sandusky from attending the Alamo Bowl or booking a hotel but I assume he has control over who gets to roam the sideline.

This Dec. 28, 1999 photo shows Penn State defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky on the sideline during the first quarter of the Alamo Bowl game against Texas A&M, in San Antonio, Texas. (AP Photo/Harry Cabluck)

Penn State's Sandusky arrested on new sex abuse charges | Minnesota Public Radio News

Was he still a coach at this point? How is that possible if he retired at the end of June?

What do you mean what does it mean? If he brings a kid to stay in his suite with his wife and all their children, what do you want the PSU coaches to do? I should think my point is rather obvious.

I mean what does it mean that the boy was listed as part of the family party? What list? I assume this means some kind of VIP list- i.e. those invited to special events or given special access.

This is important, because it was at this second bowl game where Sandusky allegedly threatened to send the kid home if he didn't put out.

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Philly-San-Antonio-Police-Launch-Preliminary-Inquiry-Into-Jerry-Sandusky-133684838.html

Victim 4 was listed along with Sandusky's wife as a member of Sandusky's family party for the 1999 Alamo Bowl. Victim 4, now age 27, told the grand jury Sandusky threatened to send him home from the Alamo Bowl when he resisted the coach's sexual advances.

 

[ProudestRyno]

Because he is thinking about coaching at Pederast State?

No. This thread seemed like it was about BOB and possibilities surrounding the PATRIOTS if BOB were to leave his spot as OC for the Pats. This thread isn't about everything that happened at Penn State and the legal ramifications of everything.

Don't try to combine the two, because you and both know they are two COMPLETELY different topics.

Get this thread back on track or go to the actual Penn State, Sandusky, Paterno thread. I'm SUUURRRRE there is one.

 

[The Brandon Five]

No. This thread seemed like it was about BOB and possibilities surrounding the PATRIOTS if BOB were to leave his spot as OC for the Pats. This thread isn't about everything that happened at Penn State and the legal ramifications of everything.

Don't try to combine the two, because you and both know they are two COMPLETELY different topics.

Get this thread back on track or go to the actual Penn State, Sandusky, Paterno thread. I'm SUUURRRRE there is one.

:welcome:

Don't tell me what to do. I say what I want. Mmkay?

 

[ProudestRyno]

:welcome:

Don't tell me what to do. I say what I want. Mmkay?

Cool......

 

[Maker's Muppet]

Re: Bill O'Brien is staying with the Patriots

Then I question the wisdom of giving him emeritus status. His "retirement" came after Joe told he would not be the head coach. Given that it was widely assumed that Sandusky was the head-coach-in-waiting, why the change of heart in the Spring of 1999? If he had concerns that led to that, why continue to give him special treatment and grant him Emeritus status?

Again, what would you have him do? Go against university protocols? Have you ever worked for a big organization. If you take retirement privileges away, what's your basis for doing that? Are you going to make charges and open yourself up to a defamation lawsuit? First, this is a university decision, but say Paterno strongly disagreed with how the university handled Sandusky (that's what came out in the grand jury testimony, and why the DA absolved Paterno), so let's focus on the university. Emeritus status is given to fully vested tenured retirees like Sandusky, and often given to Associates (who are below Sandusky's rank). Sandusky is found rubbing a nude child's back in the shower. They investigated it. So then the university takes away his retirement privileges? You honestly think a big organization would do that after an investigation absolved Sandusky?

, the point is that people continue to look the other way after the first incident brought this to everyone's attention. No, Paterno couldn't stop Sandusky from attending the Alamo Bowl or booking a hotel but I assume he has control over who gets to roam the sideline.

And what is known at that point in 1999? Do you think they knew he was molesting the kid that was part of the family party? There's no evidence that anyone knew what he was doing to that kid in the party. You're also assuming a lot about why Sandusky retired. You assume it had something to do with the kid he was showering with. Whereas Paterno even told Tom Bradley that he would not be succeeding him at PSU, and it's for this reason that Bradley started interviewing for coaching jobs in recent years, such as the one at Pitt. You might be right, but there's no evidence that Paterno putting a stop to Sandusky's promotion at PSU was any different than Paterno putting a stop to Bradley's promotion. In fact, it's possible that the Sandusky decision was even more logical since Paterno coached for another 12 years after that decision. He might have let Sandusky know that he had absolutely no plans of stepping down for Sandusky to take over. And it's for this reason that Sandusky interviewed at U. Virginia that year to take over the head coaching job from the previous assistant (Welsh) that Paterno had cast aside. That's 3 different top assistants who Paterno turned away. Maybe they were all pedophiles?

This is important, because it was at this second bowl game where Sandusky allegedly threatened to send the kid home if he didn't put out.

Again, this is before the rape charge. That happened in 2002. In 1998-1999, Sandusky had been investigated for showering with a boy and rubbing his back. And the authorities including child services did not proceed.

 

[Maker's Muppet]

No. This thread seemed like it was about BOB and possibilities surrounding the PATRIOTS if BOB were to leave his spot as OC for the Pats. This thread isn't about everything that happened at Penn State and the legal ramifications of everything.

Don't try to combine the two, because you and both know they are two COMPLETELY different topics.

Get this thread back on track or go to the actual Penn State, Sandusky, Paterno thread. I'm SUUURRRRE there is one.

It's entirely relevant. We're not discussing the whole Sandusky thing. I'm sure all of us agree that Paterno and the whole administrative staff should have been fired. What we're discussing is whether PSU did anything legally wrong or operationally wrong for the NCAA to issue sanctions and therefore kill the career of any coach who takes that job.

That's directly relevant to BOB.

No one here is defending PSU.

 

[Garbanza]

Your opinion is inconsistent. How can he be "meh" but there be no room for improvement if he goes? Or in your words "no trend up".

The offense has been fairly consistent over the years. It's the talent level (READ: TIGHT ENDS) that has gotten better. Since they promote from within....the philosophy, scheme, etc doesn't change much...maybe some of the "creativity" but even that is marginal.

Therefore, "meh"

The thing O'rien has going for him is the televised pissing match he had with God's nephew.

 

[BritPat]

Can we talk about, you know, Bill O'Brien?