Now Tim Tebow wants out!

[PatriotSeven]

even with the gifs and all with the breakdown...tebow is by far the worst QB in the league...it's between him and gabbert

Are we not grading him on the same stats as all the other passers? Because if we are then...

In 2011 he was :
9th in Int%, 2.2%
13th in TD%, 4.4%
And had a 2.0 TD/Int ratio, which is at least good for top 15 in the NFL.

You CAN win football games with a quarterback that is that good in those 2 categories even if his completion % is right around 50%. And that's not counting what he gives you with his legs.

You CAN'T win football games consistently with turnover machines like Sanchez, Vick, Gabbert, Skelton, Weeden, Fitzpatrick who have those numbers flip flopped where they turn over the ball more than they score for you. Seriously you just can't. If your QB has more turnovers than touchdowns, he just isn't very good. So I say he's better than those guys. He's probably more like top 20.

 

[Joker]

The last game Tebow quarterbacked for the full 4 quarters, he was 9 for 26 for 136 yards and zero TD's against what was widely considered the weakest playoff defense in league history. Tim Tebow led the Broncos to a 45-10 franchise apocalypse.

You keep nannering on with these other stats. THAT game line is the stat base Elway saw and promptly used to jettison the Chosen Wun from his Denver Broncos.For absolutely good reason...never mind Elway BEING a HOF QB who damn sure has forgotten more football than YOU will ever know.

In the biggest game of his pro career, Tim Tebow SHAT THE BED....end of story.

now....carry on with your fictional story about the exploits of your super Timmy...

 

[Jackson 2]

Anyone taken a close look at Tebow lately? Spare me the pictures of him running shirtless in the rain earlier this season. He looks like he ate the Statue of Liberty. Ten more pounds and he can play nose tackle.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Anyone taken a close look at Tebow lately? Spare me the pictures of him running shirtless in the rain earlier this season. He looks like he ate the Statue of Liberty. Ten more pounds and he can play nose tackle.

Child please! The guy's outstanding football shape.

 

[Jackson 2]

Child please! The guy is outstanding football shape.

See my second sentence. That's not Jesus today.

 

[PatriotSeven]

The last game Tebow quarterbacked for the full 4 quarters, he was 9 for 26 for 136 yards and zero TD's against what was widely considered the weakest playoff defense in league history. Tim Tebow led the Broncos to a 45-10 franchise apocalypse.

You keep nannering on with these other stats. THAT game line is the stat base Elway saw and promptly used to jettison the Chosen Wun from his Denver Broncos.For absolutely good reason...never mind Elway BEING a HOF QB who damn sure has forgotten more football than YOU will ever know.

In the biggest game of his pro career, Tim Tebow SHAT THE BED....end of story.

now....carry on with your fictional story about the exploits of your super Timmy...

One game? Your logic makes no sense when you realize....

Brady's game against the Ravens:

22/36 239 61.1% 0TD 2Int 57.5rat

Or Andy Dalton:
27/42 257 64.3% 0Td 3Int 51.4rat

And how about this one? Joe Flacco's game against the Pats in the playoffs(they won):

J. Flacco 4/10 34 yards 40% 0TD 1Int 0-0 10.0


You think Elway gave up on Tebow because of 1 game? If he did he's an idiot. Tebow's not the only QB to have a bad game in the playoffs. Matt Ryan sucked too. No he gave up on Tebow because of Peyton and because his coaching staff did not believe the spread option was a viable NFL offense.

There's actually something I saw in Tebow I liked in that game. Despite all the pressure, despite being down as much as he was, despite still attempting 26 passes he never threw an interception. He didn't throw a pick at all in the post season.

And how about the game before?

10/21 316yards 47.6% 2Td's 0Int 97.5 125rat

In OT? Against the #1 D? Why does his one bad game count, but his good game doesn't?

And I disagree we had a bad playoff D as I did before everyone else caught on and were surprised. That proved false. We were the #2 most efficient defense all year last year in yards per point. People just keep looking at yards as if it's actually a meaningful stat to rank anyone or anything by.

 

[Raymond]

Heard on EEI today, Tom Curran was talking many points and when on the subject of Tebow, he believes BB could possibly want him, as an H back or special teams type player. He'd want to do it to show the world, he could be a useful player.

Anyone else believe in this pile?

 

[Joker]

obviously you are a brainwashed Tebowite, Seven...and that's fine...printing Brady being 22-36 against the Ravens and then using THAT as an explanation for an ABOMINABLE 9 passes completed in 4 quarters with 25 attempts as being comparable and then extrapolating THAT out to some kind of inference that Tebow is on Brady's level, since Brady had a subpar playoff game is ludicrous.

It is your right to bang the drums of your favorite Patriots players...but when you obtusely continue on with this farce about some college clownboy and his exploits on the NFL level, I have to believe you are first and foremost a Florida Gators fan and then, way down the scale, a Patriots fan. That is trolling IMO. Keep up the fight though...perhaps you'll find some allies here.

 

[PatriotSeven]

Heard on EEI today, Tom Curran was talking many points and when on the subject of Tebow, he believes BB could possibly want him, as an H back or special teams type player. He'd want to do it to show the world, he could be a useful player.

Anyone else believe in this pile?

I still say it will be to run our scout team against spread option QB's. That will be his only job and will be cut repeatedly and re-signed in the weeks when he is not needed without any worry of someone picking him up. And there will be a Tebow press conference every time we do this. In fact BB might have Tebow run his press conference too

Oh yeah...and we'll use him to score against the Jets in both games.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Heard on EEI today, Tom Curran was talking many points and when on the subject of Tebow, he believes BB could possibly want him, as an H back or special teams type player. He'd want to do it to show the world, he could be a useful player.

Anyone else believe in this pile?

I rather doubt BB cares what other people think, so no. IF he actually is interested in Tebow it's because he thinks Tebow can help him win games.

 

[PatriotSeven]

obviously you are a brainwashed Tebowite, Seven...and that's fine...printing Brady being 22-36 against the Ravens and then using THAT as an explanation for an ABOMINABLE 9 passes completed in 4 quarters with 25 attempts as being comparable and then extrapolating THAT out to some kind of inference that Tebow is on Brady's level, since Brady had a subpar playoff game is ludicrous.

It is your right to bang the drums of your favorite Patriots players...but when you obtusely continue on with this farce about some college clownboy and his exploits on the NFL level, I have to believe you are first and foremost a Florida Gators fan and then, way down the scale, a Patriots fan. That is trolling IMO. Keep up the fight though...perhaps you'll find some allies here.

I pointed out other quarterbacks have had atrocious games and to use one game as some sort of ultimate indictment is just plain silly. And please don't put words in my mouth.

My point isn't Tebow is anywhere near Tom's level. It's that one bad game is meaningless. Is completion % or attempts everything to you? What is your explanation for Flacco's 4 out of 10 attempts?

And for the record, I have never watched a Florida Gators game. I am a football fan first and foremost, and I'm interested in a lot of players, but that goes hand in hand with the Pats because they are the first football team I have ever watched. If there was no Snowbowl, I would probably not even be a fan of football. Panthers fan second, just because I'm originally from Europe and we are wired to pull for the home team. Reason I like Tebow is John Fox. I got interested in Denver because that's where John Fox was. That's how I was introduced to Tebow. I actually thought he would make a good back up for Newton initially when I found out he got demoted to 4th string, and Carolina would be running the spread option but had Derek Anderson as our back up.

My interest in him is because even when he was winning, I thought there could be better explanations for what was going on rather than what was being spread around the media. People are bat **** crazy when it comes to this kid. He has strong fundamentals when it comes to being a quarterback. He doesn't turn over the ball. He throws it away. He scores touchdowns. He keeps it simple stupid. Oh and because like Brady, Jake Delhomme when they first came onto the season he's a huge underdog. I'm a sucker for them. And like Fox, or BB, have high characters. Guys with fiery leadership quality who I feel are big time team players. It's just the type of players and people I like.

Half the NFL QB's don't have those down.

 

[Joker]

heh...with all your study how did you ever miss the FACT that Timmuh has an anti-passer throwing motion?...that long wind-up, erratic throwing motion...you MISSED this? You missed all the throws in the direction of WIDE OPEN receivers that either sail 5 feet over the heads of or five feet into the ground before the feet of these players?

yeah Flacco was 4-10 in a playoff game...and the Ravens WON that game. I saw Tebow last season in that playoff game versus the Pats.Every single Pats fan in my section was talking the next game at the end of the 1st quarter...THAT is how bad Tebow looked and in my 5 decades of watching the NFL I've never seen such an unqualified QB at the helm of a playoff team.

Keep inventing more reasons for the resurrection of the Chosen Thud, though...it's riveting reading.

 

[PatriotSeven]

heh...with all your study how did you ever miss the FACT that Timmuh has an anti-passer throwing motion?...that long wind-up, erratic throwing motion...you MISSED this? You missed all the throws in the direction of WIDE OPEN receivers that either sail 5 feet over the heads of or five feet into the ground before the feet of these players?

yeah Flacco was 4-10 in a playoff game...and the Ravens WON that game. I saw Tebow last season in that playoff game versus the Pats.Every single Pats fan in my section was talking the next game at the end of the 1st quarter...THAT is how bad Tebow looked and in my 5 decades of watching the NFL I've never seen such an unqualified QB at the helm of a playoff team.

Keep inventing more reasons for the resurrection of the Chosen Thud, though...it's riveting reading.

As I said earlier, Tom Martinez disagreed. I'll take his word for it.

So your argument is Ravens won the game in spite of Flacco's ****ty play so Flacco was not as bad? Ok...

You must have not watched the Ravens game, cause Flacco was certainly worse than Tebow was last year against us. Not even sure how you can defend that one. At least Tebow put up 140 yards of offense. Flacco had 39 yards, 4 completions and 1 interception.

 

[Joker]

No...my point is that Tim Tebow is a horrible NFL QB, with horrible mechanics and one who I thought put up the worst performance I'd ever seen by a QB in the NFL playoffs..and then I thought about it, and thought about Joe Kapp, who I've always thought was the worst QB to ever play in the the NFL playoffs, but even HE passed the Vikes to the Championship game.

I am only going on what I've seen. I didn't bring up any straw men experts like Tom Martinez.I have no idea what Martinez's motivation is to state what he does but it has to be agenda driven. That's OK...everyone has a dog in the hunt and can say whatever they want...just don't tell me it's raining when a Chosen Twerp is urinating all over the field.

It seems this Tebow topic really has you heated...first it was others in this thread and now me that you seem intent on brainwashing. Here is my irrevocable stance...Tebow, nice person,good luck wherever he lands...KEEP THIS WALKING MEDIA WHIRLWIND CREATOR as far away from Foxboro and the Patriots dressing room as possible...amen.

 

[Joker]

You must have not watched the Ravens game, cause Flacco was certainly worse than Tebow was last year against us. Not even sure how you can defend that one. At least Tebow put up 140 yards of offense. Flacco had 39 yards, 4 completions and 1 interception.

I was AT that game...it was so cold my electric socks froze. Flacco didn't HAVE to play any better than he did ...his team won...HANDILY. Brady also had a horrible day passing. Having seen that game in person, and having seen Tebow in far better climatic conditions last year, yes, I can easily say that Tebow is far worse than Joe Flacco as a QB, even on a day when Flacco is 4-10.

 

[PatriotSeven]

I was AT that game...it was so cold my electric socks froze. Flacco didn't HAVE to play any better than he did ...his team won...HANDILY. Brady also had a horrible day passing. Having seen that game in person, and having seen Tebow in far better climatic conditions last year, yes, I can easily say that Tebow is far worse than Joe Flacco as a QB, even on a day when Flacco is 4-10.

Ok he didn't have to, but he still played worse in that game. He did nothing for his team but made it worse and gave them terrible field position. And that's fine that you think Flacco is better overall as a quarterback. I do too. My point, once again, is you are clinging to 1 game to make your point. So you are using a double standard.

Oh and furthermore on his motion...it wasn't just Tom Martinez who didn't see a big issue with it.

Neither did our current offensive coordinator, you know...the guy who organized 2 of the best offenses in NFL history....else he wouldn't have drafted him. What, you think he didn't take it into consideration when he drafted him?

He didn't care about it, and if I had to guess it's probably because unlike most mediots who have no clue what they are talking about, he was aware that super quick releases are more of a quality needed for pocket passers in the WCO and he likely had no intention of doing that with Tebow who can buy time with his legs.

Joe Montana said to stop messing with it too. Both him and Martinez said they didn't believe in the guys who were trying to fix his motion.

Where are you getting your expert analysis and criticism on his motion from? ESPN?

Personally I'll stick with those three. Their words are more than good enough for me. And so are my own eyes who never saw it as the main culprit for his passing problems.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

John Elway disagrees with you. So does Rexy. Who are we to believe - NFL coaches working with him or you?

Here's a fact about your fact: His wins were not only razor thin with a great defense but they came before the league figured him out. He was effective because of novelty. He was like the Wildcat before it got figured out. But he got figured out and then what happened?

The Patriots game was a microcosm of that: The novelty of what he was doing fooled the Patriots for a quarter or two. Then the Patriots lowered the boom on him and his myth died right there on that Invesco Field.

Several established football people having an opinion on how successful a player will be is proof that football people have opinions. If football people with the stature of the Rexs and Elways had certainty within their thought process, Tom Brady wouldn't have been drafted in the 6th round (or fill in the umpteen amount of passed over players that became successful in the NFL).

However, the question you decided to answer has little to do with what I was speaking of. The question: would Tebow taking over for Sanchez have helped the Jets qualify for the playoffs. The answer I disagreed with was 'he has done nothing to show he could have helped the Jets qualify for the Playoffs'. Tebow, in his one stint as a starting QB, achieved a W-L record that allowed that team to qualify for the playoffs. Feel free to dissect his skills to the Nth degree, it will not change the absolute proof regarding his record and the clear implication that that IS something to suggest (not would, simply suggest) he would have helped the Jets in their quest for qualifying for the playoffs.

As far as your dissection of Tebow's 'ways', I don't have any major problems with it. I am personally not a fan of Tebow the QB. I do like that he is a stand up guy (way to many "me" players - he kind of reminded me of Curtis Martin in a way). I did like how he laid it all on the line/showed a lot of heart and competitive drive....and that quality appeared to make the team (Denver) rally around him (something I suspect the Jets lacked with Sanchez). But I believe his ability to lead a team to a SB victory is shaky (based solely on what I saw on TV during the 2011 season). Regardless, and to an ad nauseum degree, he did QB that team to the playoffs. That is, unarguably, proof that he could (not would) aid the Jets in their now failed quest for a playoff spot/lead another team to a playoff bid. If you (or Rex Ryan or John Elway) have issue with the fact that past performance suggests future results, your argument is with reality not me.

 

[1960Pats]

well, nobody ever said he was dumb.......

The only one I heard accuse him of that was a Jest fan.

I wonder if he could help the Pats in some way.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

What you are stating is no fact.

I've seen him release the ball quickly enough when he needs to, and I will take Tom Martinez's(R.I.P.) word over any one else's when it comes to mechanics, who said he can fix Tebow in 2 weeks. He obviously didn't think that there's something seriously wrong with his throwing if he made that statement.

So what happened? Didn't use his quarter? I bet Martinez believed he could fix any QB's throwing motion/mechanics. That doesn't mean much. It's all about the QB's ability to embrace that change to the point it becomes second nature. Because unless they can they revert to form under pressure.

And I will take Johs McDaniel's word who saw enough potential to draft Tebow, has closely worked with the Gators before and currently has the Patriots once again as one of the best offenses in the history of the NFL ....over John Elway's any day of the week.

Josh McDaniels may or may not be an offensive genius. Apart from his performance with a GOAT he inherited...in an offense he inherited...who knows. He didn't fair nearly as well with Kyle Orton or Sam Bradford. And before you hold Matt Cassel up as his shining example, Charlie was able to pull off the same trick.

But I don't think you can fairly say Elway saw no potential, let alone list it as a fact. Not that I put so much weight on what he says anyway. Michael Jordan runs the Bobcats too.

Elway not only saw no potential, he ran screaming from lack of it because he knows what it takes at minimum to be an actual contender in this league at this time. Every GM wants to win every game. Elway visibly recoiled at Tebow's ability to pull a win out of his ass randomly. Because he understood the randomness of it. And the fleeting nature of random. Kind of like Rex and Jets fans didn't.

I think Elway simply saw the type of coaching staff he had in Fox and McCoy, the type of offenses they liked to run and believed in and he understood the type of quarterback Manning is. He's also a new GM and wants to be successful, and he made a no brainer decision. As a GM how much safer can it be than hiring Peyton Manning to be your quarterback.

Yeah, coming off multiple neck surgeries at 36 that was a no brainer...

Heck if Tom becomes a free agent tomorrow nobody's job is safe. Maybe not even Manning's. I actually question Elways intelligence if he wants rings, considering Manning's playoff record. Other than Farve I can't think of too many guys who missed the big game as often as Manning despite so many chances.

You probably also can't name too many QB's who consistently won as many regular season games or got to two Superbowls in 3 seasons, which is the kind of scenario Elway was brought in to Denver to recreate...after more than a decade of randomness in the Shannahan post Elway/Jake the Snake/Cutler/Orton/McDaniels eras.

PS: Using Rex doesn't bolster your argument. This is a coach who thinks Mark Sanchez gives him the best chance to win. He believes playing football with a guaranteed negative turnover margin gives a football team the best chance to win

Rex believes in random. At least on offense which he has no affinity for. That's why they took a shot with Tebow. Just on closer inspection found he was no less random than Sanchez. So he stuck with the random (devil) he thought he knew and could work around. Kinda of like what your idol John Fox did in Carolina with Delhomme...who one night I recall nearly randomly won a Superbowl...nearly. He just happened to have the misfortune of being matched up against a QB and HC who are the antithesis of random.

It's the nature of the beast that is the 32 team NFL that random gets a shot and sometimes more because there simply aren't remotely enough consistently solid let alone elite performing QB's available in the market to fill everyone's need for one. While there are a plethora of HC'ing candidates who believe they can win and know they must try because throwing your hands up and quitting gets you fired faster than does your backing your underperforming QB. Had Rex opened up his last two pre season pressers by proclaiming he was screwed because of the decision he signed off on 4 years ago, even Woody would have bailed on Rex the HC long ago. Same deal that forced Fox to continue to back Delhomme beyond what appeared to be any reason to. No more viable alternative than the guy they once randomly managed to succeed with at least enough to remain employed as a HC.

 

[Jackson 2]

The only one I heard accuse him of that was a Jest fan.

I wonder if he could help the Pats in some way.

Actually, Scott Zolak on his 98.5 show fairly regularly mocks Tebow's perceived lack of intelligence by pretending to be Tebow and speaking like Forrest Gump. I'm not a Tebow fan, but I'm not sure Zolak should be making fun of anyone's intellect.