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NFL to propose to improve a team's draft position if it hires a person of color as HC or GM

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DO you like this idea

  • Yes

    Votes: 9 5.5%
  • No

    Votes: 146 89.6%
  • Maybe, not sure

    Votes: 8 4.9%

  • Total voters
    163
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I’m surprised so many people seem to think a team would hire a coach they don’t want just to move up six slots. I can’t see that happening.

I wonder if the league is polling players and minority coaches and asking for feedback, is there lack of interest and mentoring? Is it the coordinator position that maybe is a big hurdle?
 
Actually isn’t it dictionary racism too? Treating people differently solely based upon race.
No. Racism is literally the belief that you think people are better or worse at things based off solely their race.
 
Just hire the best suited candidate.
 
I don’t think people on this board know what racism is if people think this is racist. Racism is inherently believing one race is better or worse than the other.

Giving incentives to businesses to hire minorities in positions that traditionally are given to one race of people to bridge the equality gap isn’t racist.

Maybe it’s bad policy, but it don’t racism
If your view of what constitutes racism is extremely narrow, what you said would be accurate. Those with such narrow definitions or racism almost always have strong tendency towards racist belief and action. Your perspective is a good example of that.
 
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They never did. So I don’t know why people are upset now
Neither does anyone else, everywhere else. What IS the best candidate? Are black coaches the only good coaches being looked over? Is Tony Dungy on TV or in the HOF because he was a good coach?
Most opportunities come from some form of social connection. This is the same everywhere. Maybe they should work on programs to help people, all people, create those connections. Or let people work hard and rise to the top.

Edit: And before you say black coaches do work hard and aren't rising, the same can be said for many other coaches of all races. The connections some coaches have bypass all of them, not just minorities.
 
If your view of what constitutes racism is extremely narrow, what you said would be accurate. Those with such narrow definitions or racism have a almost always have strong tendency towards racist belief and action. Your perspective is a good example of that.
Translation: The commonly accepted and long standing translation isn’t accurate according to Galen because it doesn’t fit well within his narrative. Why? We can only speculate
 
No. Racism is literally the belief that you think people are better or worse at things based off solely their race.

I mean in some cases, evidence would suggest that race does matter for some things. Such as the evidence that suggests white people swim faster than black people and black people run faster than white people because of their bodies.

that’s not racism.
 
Translation: The commonly accepted and long standing translation isn’t accurate according to Galen because it doesn’t fit well within his narrative. Why? We can only speculate
Making rules that favor one group over another for a position is racist. If you can't see that, you'll not be able to add anything constructive to this conversation.

The idea is to create a climate of equal opportunity, not enforcing equal outcome. Look at some of my other posts in this thread. There are ways to achieve this without enacting racist policies.
 
Neither does anyone else, everywhere else. What IS the best candidate? Are black coaches the only good coaches being looked over? Is Tony Dungy on TV or in the HOF because he was a good coach?
Most opportunities come from some form of social connection. This is the same everywhere. Maybe they should work on programs to help people, all people, create those connections. Or let people work hard and rise to the top.

Edit: And before you say black coaches do work hard and aren't rising, the same can be said for many other coaches of all races. The connections some coaches have bypass all of them, not just minorities.
And here’s the problem with this. Let’s say there is an occupation where nepotism runs rampant and well connected people like Jeff Fisher keep getting opportunities they don’t deserve. Therefore due to that and the limited positions in the vocations, many deserving people unfairly get blocked out.

Yes it’s entirely fair to say there are white coaches who are not jobs in lieu of someone in the club. But the way things are set up now, a white person is still most likely to benefit from it.

Also sidebar: Dungy is a bad example. He won a SB largely off his defense and special teams carrying Peyton. He coached 13 years, had 10 double digit win seasons, 11 overall winning seasons, 1 8-8 season and one losing season (which was his first year), he went to 3 conference championship games, he went to the playoffs 11 times in 13 years including every year from 1999 until he retired in 2008. He has 9 playoff which is tied with Johnson, Lombardi?, Madden, Shanahan, Flores. His run from 2002-2008 largely made the Colts the second best team of the 2000’s next to the Patriots. If we were going to argue who the best coached from 2000-present are it would be Belichick, Reid, and then Dungy would be in the argument for the next best amongst maybe Harbaugh and Carroll, Dungy just retired earlier
 
Making rules that favor one group over another for a position is racist. If you can't see that, you'll not be able to add anything constructive to this conversation.

The idea is to create a climate of equal opportunity, not enforcing equal outcome. Look at some of my other posts in this thread. There are ways to achieve this without enacting racist policies.

You probably shouldn’t talk about who is adding anything constructive to the conversation if you can’t even stick with widely accepted meanings of words because they don’t line up with your feelings.

Making rules that favor people based on race is not inherently racist. You have to look at intention and reasoning. The Rooney Rule is literally a rule that benefits some races over others because it mandates minorities definitely get an interview while whites people don’t necessarily have to. That’s mostly because that particular branch positions has longstanding history of boxing people out and mostly benefiting those who are well connected or related and that usually extrapolates to “some white people have their foot in the door for these roles and minorities who didn’t come up being related to these guys or close to these guys don’t”. So they mandate teams give some consideration to a minority candidate so they aren’t blindly going with some preordained person with no other consideration.

Even this rule, it’s not even forcing anyone’s hand. The Rooney Rule actually mandates action. This is an incentive that quite frankly most teams won’t take because a head coach or GM is infinitely more valuable than moving up a few draft spots (see all the bottom feeders with good picks every year).

Saying “listen minorities are traditionally shut out of these roles, we’d like to fix that, so we are offering an incentive if you do hire a minority” is not inherently racist. It’s recognizing an existing problem and giving benefits for people who take action to help with it. It doesn’t make anyone do anything. If anything the current nepotism and well connected people that keep getting these opportunities are still wildly benefiting white people. Whether it’s giving a Shanahan or Ryan an opportunity to play nice with their dads.... this is adding a benefit the other way.

It would be racist if everything was equal and this was just an attempt to give someone an advantage. However the rationale behind this is that certain people already have an inherent advantage so we are making up the gap by adding our own to equalize it.

Is this the perfect way to do it? No. Anything like this is going to be difficult. It’s also far from the worst thing they could propose either. Trust me I know. There’s plenty of companies that do a wink wink “hey we only have white guys in here, try to hire a woman or minority with the next open position”.

And like I said before, it would be one thing if people were losing their minds over the current structure that is inherently unfair already. However, they aren’t. So now an imperfect action to correct an already imperfect system is being called racist because it might give a minority who traditionally was blocked out from a job a better chance at landing it
 
The NFL has completely lost its way the last 10 years or so.
I love the Pats and love the game but I truly hate the league.
 
I mean in some cases, evidence would suggest that race does matter for some things. Such as the evidence that suggests white people swim faster than black people and black people run faster than white people because of their bodies.

that’s not racism.
Actually a lot of people would argue that it is racist and it ignores a number of no non racial factors. Aka white people are more likely to take up swimming competitively. A lot of poorer predominately black countries are bigger in track because it’s one of the least expensive sports you can get into (same with boxing). Or that Kenya where track is a big pastime is all well suited for training because of altitude. Or that white people generally succeed at golf more because they frequent gold institutions more because country clubs and access to golf courses is more socio economic based. Or that in America in inner cities or poor rural areas you have kids more likely to aggressively pursue sports because those are some of the only opportunities those communities are offering. Or better yet by influence a lot of white kids see themselves in Gretzky or Joe Montana so they play hockey or try to be quarterback and black kids see themselves in Michael Jordan or Barry Sanders/Randy Moss so they take up basketball or go for skill positions. Or how baseball exploded in Puerto Rico so there has been an influx of talent there. Or we could talk for years about why Eastern Europeans excel at gymnastics.

Also the fact is you don’t have an equalized system to account for it. You would need to take hundreds or thousands of people, give them the same coaches, make them devote the same amount of hours from early childhood on to get an accurate understanding of where differences are.

Overall point, there’s so many different factors from what country you are from, whether you grew up rich or poor, where you trainers, who you grew up watching and idolizing before you can even say “you are better at this because of the color of your skin and nothing else”
 
You probably shouldn’t talk about who is adding anything constructive to the conversation if you can’t even stick with widely accepted meanings of words because they don’t line up with your feelings.

Making rules that favor people based on race is not inherently racist. You have to look at intention and reasoning. The Rooney Rule is literally a rule that benefits some races over others because it mandates minorities definitely get an interview while whites people don’t necessarily have to. That’s mostly because that particular branch positions has longstanding history of boxing people out and mostly benefiting those who are well connected or related and that usually extrapolates to “some white people have their foot in the door for these roles and minorities who didn’t come up being related to these guys or close to these guys don’t”. So they mandate teams give some consideration to a minority candidate so they aren’t blindly going with some preordained person with no other consideration.

Even this rule, it’s not even forcing anyone’s hand. The Rooney Rule actually mandates action. This is an incentive that quite frankly most teams won’t take because a head coach or GM is infinitely more valuable than moving up a few draft spots (see all the bottom feeders with good picks every year).

Saying “listen minorities are traditionally shut out of these roles, we’d like to fix that, so we are offering an incentive if you do hire a minority” is not inherently racist. It’s recognizing an existing problem and giving benefits for people who take action to help with it. It doesn’t make anyone do anything. If anything the current nepotism and well connected people that keep getting these opportunities are still wildly benefiting white people. Whether it’s giving a Shanahan or Ryan an opportunity to play nice with their dads.... this is adding a benefit the other way.

It would be racist if everything was equal and this was just an attempt to give someone an advantage. However the rationale behind this is that certain people already have an inherent advantage so we are making up the gap by adding our own to equalize it.

Is this the perfect way to do it? No. Anything like this is going to be difficult. It’s also far from the worst thing they could propose either. Trust me I know. There’s plenty of companies that do a wink wink “hey we only have white guys in here, try to hire a woman or minority with the next open position”.

And like I said before, it would be one thing if people were losing their minds over the current structure that is inherently unfair already. However, they aren’t. So now an imperfect action to correct an already imperfect system is being called racist because it might give a minority who traditionally was blocked out from a job a better chance at landing it
Your perception about the widely held belief of racism is completely off. In fact, many, especially among minority communities have vastly wider definition of racism.

If this is the first you've ever heard of equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome, it would serve you well to do some research on the topic. Understanding the difference between the two is fundamental to this subject.

Your approach is clearly trying to enforce equality of outcome. It addresses the symptoms, but not the root of the problem. To address the root, you can't just look at the surface and base all your future perspective on that first impression. You must look deeper. Always try to solve problems at the source. If not, the problem will continue to manifest in different and unexpected ways.

I agree that there is a problem, and it is similar to what you describe. I simply choose to address the source of the problem and as fairly as is practical. There are far more effective methods that are much more fair and carry far less negative consequences than your preferred means.
 
No. Racism is literally the belief that you think people are better or worse at things based off solely their race.
That definition is too narrow.
For example it leaves actions such as hiring only one race because you think they “fit in” better, or only renting to whites people because all of the other people in the building are white and they would feel more comfortable, or many other ways of treating someone differently solely because of their race, such as giving favorable competitive treatment based upon the race of who you hire.
 
One guy lasting a long time doing so-so with a franchise and getting a second job isn’t exactly proof of an old boys network.
Look at recent hirings kinsgbury, Flores, Rhule, Taylor just to name a few. There really is no evidence that there is an old boys network.
Also good to note that Marvin Lewis lasted longer than anyone thought he should.
 
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