NFL to propose to improve a team's draft position if it hires a person of color as HC or GM

[Clonamery]

Kitchens started as running backs coach. Taylor's last job was a QB coach. You're really reaching trying to defend them as the best candidates.

Yeah, now he’s the Tight Ends coach for the Giants. Know how he got his job? Joe Judge hired him because Kitchens had hired him before (Judge’s first job I think). Gets along great with him. Cool, that’s important. Just an example of what really gets you hired more often than not. Giants should lose 10 spots in the draft.

 

[Galeb]

No, I don't.

If not, then you dramatically over estimate the value of echo chambers.

 

[Galeb]

Honestly I think the profession is about competition and the cream rises to the top. I think the best man gets hired and opportunities abound. I don’t think you need a finger on the scale.

If the average NFL coach wasn't so crappy, you might have a point. There already is a finger on the scale. If you're not part of the good ol' boys club, it's extremely hard to get in.

Increasing diversity in organisations is an extremely hard thing to do fairly. Quotas, giving benefits to hiring less qualified candidates based on race, on field benefits for minority hires and things of that nature cause more harm than good.

The only semi-fair means of approaching the problems would include changing culture (dismantling the good ol' boys mentality), and creating programs that find good minority candidates and spend significant time and effort developing them. The idea is to create equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome.

 

[fightingirish595]

It's settled. All they need to do is add 1 more coach and ensure 4 people of color are FO execs and we are all set.

Next, they need 6 Hispanic and 2 Asian coaches and GMs on teams to capture the country's demographics accurately.

Probably less arbitrary than any other method am I right?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Probably less arbitrary than any other method am I right?

Yep! God forbid people are hired on merit.

 

[Galeb]

Yep! God forbid people are hired on merit.

Merit needs to be the sole reason for hires. If you look at the quality of NFL head coaches over the last couple of decades, either the owners have a complete inability to judge merit, or merit isn't the most important factor in hiring.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Merit needs to be the sole reason for hires. If you look at the quality of NFL head coaches over the last couple of decades, either the owners have a complete inability to judge merit, or merit isn't the most important factor in hiring.

NFL is the classic good ole boys network which is run/owned by men who a) are ****ty business people and their trust fund saves them from eating Spam (which is very good grilled) and b) know nothing about football but think they do.

 

[Triumph]

Progress

There is more work to be done.

 

[NashuaPats]

No one: “There’s not enough racial hatred and anger out there.”

Fraudger: “I’ll take care of that.”

 

[sieglo]

Now more than ever, in this new normal, this is what our country needs. I endorse this proposal.

 

[fightingirish595]

Yep! God forbid people are hired on merit.

that’s the way it should be. That’s how players get their jobs.

African Americans make up like 70 percent of the NBA and the NFL or some number like that. Yet make up 13 percent of the population. No one says anything because it’s obviously not discrimination.

For the people that complain that there are too few black coaches. I would like to know how many they think there should be. Population wise, seems like they are justly represented

 

[Triumph]

Remember when Johnny Cochran went directly after Bob Kraft implying that he was racialist because of his hiring practices? Johnny said that he would force people like Kraft to do what Johnny deemed fair and just in regards to who got hired = skin color.

Kraft fired back asking Johnny how much he would pay him to buy the team.

Where were all the principled virtue signaling Pats fans boycotting Krafts team through all the Super Bowls and winning? I do not recall anyone taking a stand and we have some real doosies on here.

 

[RobertWeathers]

that’s the way it should be. That’s how players get their jobs.

African Americans make up like 70 percent of the NBA and the NFL or some number like that. Yet make up 13 percent of the population. No one says anything because it’s obviously not discrimination.

For the people that complain that there are too few black coaches. I would like to know how many they think there should be. Population wise, seems like they are justly represented

Let's play this out...

If we look at the demographics or "population" of the sports you mention, in theory there should be more minorities in management. Fine.

So what are the reasons why minorities are not in more management roles? Racism? Qualifications? Eligible candidates?

This is my issue with affirmative action programs like these. The default assumption is racism is the reason.

Personally I think racism plays a part in why minorities are on the outside looking in but to basically say it's THE sole reason is ********

 

[lancerman]

Fighting supposed racism with actual racism. Great idea.

I don’t think people on this board know what racism is if people think this is racist. Racism is inherently believing one race is better or worse than the other.

Giving incentives to businesses to hire minorities in positions that traditionally are given to one race of people to bridge the equality gap isn’t racist.

Maybe it’s bad policy, but it don’t racism

 

[LuRkeR1978]

I don’t think people on this board know what racism is if people think this is racist. Racism is inherently believing one race is better or worse than the other.

Giving incentives to businesses to hire minorities in positions that traditionally are given to one race of people to bridge the equality gap isn’t racist.

Maybe it’s bad policy, but it don’t racism

It's not dictionary racism, but it's definitely institutionalized racism. If you're a black coach, and get hired...you'll always wonder if you were hired based on your abilities as a coach, or simply because you're black and the team needed a better draft pick. Then there's also the threat of being fired after 1 season and now you're potentially not going to get hired again.

Personally, I wouldn't want a job under those circumstances.

 

[lancerman]

It's a problem when in over their head young inexperienced QB coaches like Zac Taylor, Freddie Kitchens, Kliff Kingsbury keep getting hired as HC and completely skip the coordinator step in their career. Prime example of how the most competent candidates are not the ones being hired.

.

Or go a step further Kyle Shanahan, Jay Gruden, Jon Gruden, Mike Shula, Joe Lombardi..... Steve Belichick......, Mike Brown, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan.... Stephen Jones (is basically the real Cowboys GM)

There’s not a lot of these positions in this world and in addition to the guys you mentioned that are part of the good ole boys club, you have blatant nepotism blocking plenty of people out of these positions because they were someone’s kid. And the people getting upset about this potential rule almost never say anything about this which definitely impacts “the best person being hired”

 

[Nunchucks]

Yep! God forbid people are hired on merit.

The problem is that people aren't being hired based on merit.

 

[lancerman]

It's not dictionary racism, but it's definitely institutionalized racism. If you're a black coach, and get hired...you'll always wonder if you were hired based on your abilities as a coach, or simply because you're black and the team needed a better draft pick. Then there's also the threat of being fired after 1 season and now you're potentially not going to get hired again.

Personally, I wouldn't want a job under those circumstances.

I don’t think there is a single person that actually worries “hmmm what’s the real reason I got this job I wanted”.,

Like does Steve Belichick go to bed at night thinking “damn I really took an opportunity away from someone else who probably deserved it more because my dad set me up”? Does Kyle Shanahan? Did either of the Ryans? Mike Shula? The Gruden boys?

Like nobody really seems to have problem with the profession being rife with blatant nepotism and that being a more than decent factor of why it’s hard for people to break in.

Also not for nothing, nobody is going to pay someone millions of dollar and give them the keys to their franchise for a higher draft pick. It’s just an incentive to consider more people and maybe not give someone in the good old boys a presumptive job every time

 

[Ring 6]

If the average NFL coach wasn't so crappy, you might have a point. There already is a finger on the scale. If you're not part of the good ol' boys club, it's extremely hard to get in.

Increasing diversity in organisations is an extremely hard thing to do fairly. Quotas, giving benefits to hiring less qualified candidates based on race, on field benefits for minority hires and things of that nature cause more harm than good.

The only semi-fair means of approaching the problems would include changing culture (dismantling the good ol' boys mentality), and creating programs that find good minority candidates and spend significant time and effort developing them. The idea is to create equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome.

Looking at the actual hc hirings shoots down the old boy network myth.

 

[Ring 6]

It's not dictionary racism, but it's definitely institutionalized racism. If you're a black coach, and get hired...you'll always wonder if you were hired based on your abilities as a coach, or simply because you're black and the team needed a better draft pick. Then there's also the threat of being fired after 1 season and now you're potentially not going to get hired again.

Personally, I wouldn't want a job under those circumstances.

Actually isn’t it dictionary racism too? Treating people differently solely based upon race.