NESN: Larry Fitzgerald could be available via trade

[Rob0729]

Fitzgerald is as close to a sure thing as is available, though.

Jackson - one incident away from a year-long suspension
Rice- coming off of injury, and only has one good season in his career, to date
Smith - injury concern, and not a real speed/deep threat
Breaston - Classic case of a WR3 living off of his WR1 and WR2
Floyd - turns 30 in September, has career highs of 45 catches and 776 yards
Sims-Walker - Marked decline from last year to this year, despite team's significant improvement
Holmes - Dumbass, and on the edge of a year-long suspension
Edwards - One of the more overrated players in football. Dumbass. Anti-Patriots in terms of attitude


The only Fitzgerald issues right now would seem to be trading compensation and signing costs. Both are significant issues, but ones that would be dealt with the moment the trade was made and the contract signed. That's different from all the other options you listed. I'm not saying your idea doesn't have merit, or wouldn't work (Heck, I've mentioned Jackson mysef). I'm just noting the potential issues.

Again, you cannot take out the compensation package. If Fitzgerald was an UFA, it would be a no brainer which way to go. He's not. If a problem child like Brandon Marshall can net the Broncos two second rounders, the low end of the asking price for Fitzgerald is a first and second. The Cards are probably going to hold out for two firsts. That changes the equation.

Once the Pats got rid of Moss, we found out the Pats can have an elite offense without a down the field threat. Now after one loss, it is a priority to mortgage the future on an elite WR. I don't get it. I think it is a need, but not a need that the Pats need to throw elite money and draft picks at. If I overestimated the trade market for Fitzgerald and he comes much cheaper, I might revise my position.

If the Pats are going to make a huge splash in terms of elite salary and first and second day draft picks, this team would be better served going after an elite defensive player than an elite offensive player. When the offense, as constituted, is clicking, it is as good or better than any offense in the league. We don't know if Fitzgerald would have made a difference two weeks ago.

 

[Patriot Missile]

No problem. A 1st this year and a 2nd next year. I don't think I'm willing to part with both in the same year unless it's a 1st and 3rd.

 

[Rob0729]

The WR I really want is Floyd. He may be coming up on 30 and not ever have huge stats, but consider:

(1) He would not likely cost a lot due to the two factors above;
(2) He really can be explosive: career 17.3 ypr; 19.4 ypr last year;
(3) We could likely get him on a 2-3 year deal which would allow a guy like Tate or Price more time to develop;
(4) The guy is a physical freak: 6'5", 201 lbs. Gives us three really nice, big, end zone targets (Floyd, Hernandez, Gronk); and
(5) It weakens a rival (SD).

He also wouldn't cost anything in a trade, but he's really good. His numbers aren't all-world because SD has had Vincent Jackson and Antonio Gates.

I agree. The Pats don't need an elite #1 WR. They need a solid #2 or #3 WR that can stretch the field. If Brandon Tate showed any type of consistency catching the ball, we wouldn't even be talking about the WR position.

 

[Deus Irae]

Again, you cannot take out the compensation package. If Fitzgerald was an UFA, it would be a no brainer which way to go. He's not. If a problem child like Brandon Marshall can net the Broncos two second rounders, the low end of the asking price for Fitzgerald is a first and second. The Cards are probably going to hold out for two firsts. That changes the equation.

I'm not taking it out at all. I'm just noting that Fitzgerald's only real questions are compensation issues, as opposed to game play issues.

Once the Pats got rid of Moss, we found out the Pats can have an elite offense without a down the field threat. Now after one loss, it is a priority to mortgage the future on an elite WR. I don't get it. I think it is a need, but not a need that the Pats need to throw elite money and draft picks at. If I overestimated the trade market for Fitzgerald and he comes much cheaper, I might revise my position.

The problem is that we didn't find out that the Patriots had an elite offense without a down-the-field threat. What we found out was what we already knew: If Brady gets hot, he can carry the entire offense on his shoulders. People have chosen to ignore

23
23
28
14

Which were the Patriots point totals before Brady caught fire post-Cleveland.

If the Pats are going to make a huge splash in terms of elite salary and first and second day draft picks, this team would be better served going after an elite defensive player than an elite offensive player. When the offense, as constituted, is clicking, it is as good or better than any offense in the league. We don't know if Fitzgerald would have made a difference two weeks ago.

The "player" would determine the wisdom of the decision. I'll take an impact receiver like Fitzgerald over an impact corner like Nnamdi, for example, but I'll take Ngata over anyone currently being talked about as available.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Once the Pats got rid of Moss, we found out the Pats can have an elite offense without a down the field threat. Now after one loss, it is a priority to mortgage the future on an elite WR. I don't get it. I think it is a need, but not a need that the Pats need to throw elite money and draft picks at. If I overestimated the trade market for Fitzgerald and he comes much cheaper, I might revise my position.

Elite offense? No, elite is not being able to be stopped. An aggressive Jets defense stopped us cold in our tracs. As did Baltimore last year.

Moss was probably the greatest downfield threat in the history of football. Excellent speed,across the middle? so so. Effort?at times was 2nd to none. Other times? pitiful.

Fitzgerald is the prototypical wr that does "everything" well without the issues of some of those prima donna wr's out there. Even when his team out right stinks he dressed to play and he played well, even without good Qb's you got an effort. Even if his stats were down last season. I admire the hell out of this guy.

Jets are built to beat us defensively. Sure we can beat them on any given day, but I would rather have it be almost every time. Yes we need work on 3rd down defense and getting to the passer. Definately a must. But I dont think giving up a 1 and possibly a 2, that is basically house money anyway, to get an elite threat like Fitzgerald is going to prevent us from forfilling those defensive and o-line needs via the draft and free agency.

A player like Fitzgerald demands the respect of Revis's ability and Ryan's game planning every play. It makes Welker, Branch and the Te's that much more effective.

The defense is instantly going to be better next year with welcoming back of Bodden{people forget how good he was for us the previous year} and Ty Warren. Also the youngster's are going to have another season under their belts. Get the pass rusher we need and some offensive line help and we are right where we need to be. I'm very excited about this team and the direction it is going. It's almost not fair it is only January 28th.

 

[Rob0729]

Elite offense? No, elite is not being able to be stopped. An aggressive Jets defense stopped us cold in our tracs. As did Baltimore last year.

Moss was probably the greatest downfield threat in the history of football. Excellent speed,across the middle? so so. Effort?at times was 2nd to none. Other times? pitiful.

Fitzgerald is the prototypical wr that does "everything" well without the issues of some of those prima donna wr's out there. Even when his team out right stinks he dressed to play and he played well, even without good Qb's you got an effort. Even if his stats were down last season. I admire the hell out of this guy.

Jets are built to beat us defensively. Sure we can beat them on any given day, but I would rather have it be almost every time. Yes we need work on 3rd down defense and getting to the passer. Definately a must. But I dont think giving up a 1 and possibly a 2, that is basically house money anyway, to get an elite threat like Fitzgerald is going to prevent us from forfilling those defensive and o-line needs via the draft and free agency.

A player like Fitzgerald demands the respect of Revis's ability and Ryan's game planning every play. It makes Welker, Branch and the Te's that much more effective.

The defense is instantly going to be better next year with welcoming back of Bodden{people forget how good he was for us the previous year} and Ty Warren. Also the youngster's are going to have another season under their belts. Get the pass rusher we need and some offensive line help and we are right where we need to be. I'm very excited about this team and the direction it is going. It's almost not fair it is only January 28th.

So the Pats scored 77 more points than any other team in the league and they are not elite?

You know who is ranked #1 by the league (who ranks by yards)? San Deigo. Oakland held them to 13 points which basically knocked them out of playoff contention.

If an elite offense means that they can never be stopped, there might have only been one or two elite offenses in league history.

I guess if everyone wants to rewrite history and pretend this wasn't an elite offense, you can make a strong argument for going after Fitzgerald.

But hey, let's go after Fitzgerald and only do minor changes on defense. 2007 has shown you have an elite WR and your offense cannot be stopped and you are guaranteed a Super Bowl win. The Giants might have had a chance to win that Super Bowl if the Pats didn't have Moss.

As for the Jets being built to beat the Pats defensively, that is ridiculous. They had a great gameplan against the Pats, but their weaknesses are bad match ups for the Pats typically. They are usually weak at the center of the field which the Pats can exploit. They just came in with something the Pats hadn't seen before and failed to make the adjustments.

Yes, the defense will get better with Warren and Bodden coming back, but they will still not be even an above average defense with their return. So you want to improve a great to elite offense with a big splash and only do minor changes to a below average to average defense? How does that make sense. This seems like the bizzaro argument.

 

[Kid~Brady]

Moss' corpse would have had more impact against the Jets than Tate did. .

This had me on the floor. hahaha

 

[Patriot Missile]

So the Pats scored 77 more points than any other team in the league and they are not elite?

You know who is ranked #1 by the league (who ranks by yards)? San Deigo. Oakland held them to 13 points which basically knocked them out of playoff contention.

If an elite offense means that they can never be stopped, there might have only been one or two elite offenses in league history.

I guess if everyone wants to rewrite history and pretend this wasn't an elite offense, you can make a strong argument for going after Fitzgerald.

But hey, let's go after Fitzgerald and only do minor changes on defense. 2007 has shown you have an elite WR and your offense cannot be stopped and you are guaranteed a Super Bowl win. The Giants might have had a chance to win that Super Bowl if the Pats didn't have Moss.

Sure, NE was the top offense in the NFL. If you want to term that elite than that is fine. Problem wih Moss in the last game of 07 was Brady, the oline and the coachig staff. They didn't adjust and Brady forced the issue to Moss instead of checking down. He wa like a toddler that had been denied his toy and kept trying to use it anyway although it wasn't available. The 2011 team destroys that Giants defense.

Fitzgerald is a deep threat, but he can also do what Welker and Branch bring to the table in a more physical way with height and leaping ability to go with it. Sa what you want, as long as Brady realizes the benefit of spreading the ball around this offense is unstoppable with the likes of Fitzgerald added to the corps.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Giving Fitzgerald expensive contract<Giving Asomugha expensive contract (and you don't have to give up picks).

Example: Asomugha on Wayne, Mccourty on Collie, Bodden on Garcon. Double cover Clark. Those would be some tight holes to throw to.

I know it probably wouldn't happen but I just dream of BB at the probowl pitching Asomugha a good reason to come here cheaper than breaking the bank at say Houston.

 

[Rob0729]

I'm not taking it out at all. I'm just noting that Fitzgerald's only real questions are compensation issues, as opposed to game play issues.

It's the compensation that is the issue, not his production.

The problem is that we didn't find out that the Patriots had an elite offense without a down-the-field threat. What we found out was what we already knew: If Brady gets hot, he can carry the entire offense on his shoulders. People have chosen to ignore

23
23
28
14

Which were the Patriots point totals before Brady caught fire post-Cleveland.

Again, the Pats scored 77 more points than the next team. They are an elite offense. The Pats needed time to gel with a radical change in offensive philosophy after the Moss trade. I am sure that if they went into the season the way they were, they would have been dominant most of the year.

The "player" would determine the wisdom of the decision. I'll take an impact receiver like Fitzgerald over an impact corner like Nnamdi, for example, but I'll take Ngata over anyone currently being talked about as available.

Of course the player would impact the wisdom of the decision, but I am saying an elite defensive player would make more sense than an offensive one. When I say elite defensive player I am talking a d-lineman like Ngata or OLB like Woodley or Hali. The biggest need to upgrade on this team is in the front seven of the defense.

 

[Rob0729]

Giving Fitzgerald expensive contract<Giving Asomugha expensive contract (and you don't have to give up picks).

Example: Asomugha on Wayne, Mccourty on Collie, Bodden on Garcon. Double cover Clark. Those would be some tight holes to throw to.

I know it probably wouldn't happen but I just dream of BB at the probowl pitching Asomugha a good reason to come here cheaper than breaking the bank at say Houston.

Asomugha is probably going to be way too expensive to sign. Would love to have him, but he is probably going to look for the same money he was getting in Oakland.

 

[BradyToAmendola]

1.) There is no need for a CB in the first two rounds, if at all.

Why not? Bodden is good, not great by any means.

So say we go into 2011 with our current CBs. Bodden, McCourty, Wilhite, Butler, Arrington. You think that's good enough? I strongly believe an upgrade at nickle CB is necesarry.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Asomugha is probably going to be way too expensive to sign. Would love to have him, but he is probably going to look for the same money he was getting in Oakland.

Probably. He comes off as a smart guy, very articulate for a football player when he speaks. In an interview he said he is sick of losing with the Raiders, but who knows how much winning means to him. He would have more oppurtunities here for INTs since Mccourty is on the other side with him.

Rob, what is the max $ per year you would offer each: Fizgerald and Asomugha?

 

[Patriot Missile]

You make it sound like all their draft picks are gone if they were to give up 2 to Arizona. Bizzaro would be ignoring the defense all together. And not seeing the improvement the defense made from week 1 until the end of the season is just plain blind. We all know what needs to be done. They improved a lot as a unit considering the youth on their team. Again with the addition of Bodden and Warren that is significant in my mind. A pass rusher which btw could easily be a waste of a pick considering the odds of them crapping out. Chances of them making an immediate impact in their 1st season? Even rarer. If that's the case then we would be better suited going after to Ngata or You make it sound like all their draft picks are gone if they were to give up 2 to Arizona. Bizzaro would be ignoring the defense all together. And not seeing the improvement the defense made from week 1 until the end of the season is just plain blind. We all know what needs to be done. They improved a lot as a unit considering the youth on their team. Again with the addition of Bodden and Warren that is significant in my mind. A pass rusher which btw could easily be a waste of a pick considering the odds of them crapping out. Chances of them making an immediate impact in their 1st season? Even rarer. If that's the case then we would be better suited going after to Ngata or You make it sound like all their draft picks are gone if they were to give up 2 to Arizona. Bizzaro would be ignoring the defense all together. And not seeing the improvement the defense made from week 1 until the end of the season is just plain blind. We all know what needs to be done. They improved a lot as a unit considering the youth on their team. Again with the addition of Bodden and Warren that is significant in my mind. A pass rusher which btw could easily be a waste of a pick considering the odds of them crapping out. Chances of them making an immediate impact in their 1st season? Even rarer. If that's the case then we would be better suited going after the guy from KC or Baltimore with the picks.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d818130b7&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

 

[TriplecHamp]

Why not? Bodden is good, not great by any means.

So say we go into 2011 with our current CBs. Bodden, McCourty, Wilhite, Butler, Arrington. You think that's good enough? I strongly believe an upgrade at nickle CB is necesarry.

Arrington is a more than capable nickel, Butler is a second round pick and he's still developing. The only issue is Bodden's health which seems to be coming along.

 

[Rob0729]

Probably. He comes off as a smart guy, very articulate for a football player when he speaks. In an interview he said he is sick of losing with the Raiders, but who knows how much winning means to him. He would have more oppurtunities here for INTs since Mccourty is on the other side with him.

Rob, what is the max $ per year you would offer each: Fizgerald and Asomugha?

Not to avoid the answer, but I don't know. At this point, I don't know what the market will be or the cap. Also, don't know off hand what the going rate for elite players is at each position. I just know both will likely break the bank for their position. Asomugha may get ridiculously stupid money. Fitzgerald might actually be worth anything he gets as long as you don't have to give up the draft picks to get.

 

[Deus Irae]

It's the compensation that is the issue, not his production.

That's the point behind my talking about the lower first round pick and a third rather than "anything they want!". Every player requires some sort of compensation. The difference here is that Fitzgerald doesn't seem to have any other issues. Jackson, just for one example, will want big coin and is a good night's drinking away from being gone for the season.

You need to take all that stuff into consideration, not just compensation.

Again, the Pats scored 77 more points than the next team. They are an elite offense. The Pats needed time to gel with a radical change in offensive philosophy after the Moss trade. I am sure that if they went into the season the way they were, they would have been dominant most of the year.

Didn't the offense need time to gel with all the new players coming in to start the season?

They still went

38
14
38
41

on the scoreboard in the first four weeks. And stop with the scoring argument, because it doesn't hold water. The reality is that when Brady was just playing "well", the team was scoring a lot more points with Moss than without him. It wasn't until Brady locked in, post-Cleveland, that the offense took off without Moss.

Of course the player would impact the wisdom of the decision, but I am saying an elite defensive player would make more sense than an offensive one. When I say elite defensive player I am talking a d-lineman like Ngata or OLB like Woodley or Hali. The biggest need to upgrade on this team is in the front seven of the defense.

And I'm saying you're wrong, because your generalizing makes it so. The team's biggest need is RG if Neal retires. Nothing else even comes close to that. If they don't re-sign Mankins and Light, it then becomes 3/5ths of the offensive line.

On the other hand, as long as Warren is healthy, the defense should be very solid against the run, with

Warren/Wilfork/Brace
OLB/Mayo/Spikes/OLB

in there to shut it down. The DE/OLB is very important because of pass rush and, to a lesser extent, setting the edge against wide runs, but it's nowhere near as important as the O-line, because Brady is the engine that makes this machine work.

And, again, I'd take the WR over the DB.

OG
DE
OLB
WR
RB

Top 5 priorities, with the order fluid depending upon re-signings and the CBA.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Not to avoid the answer, but I don't know. At this point, I don't know what the market will be or the cap. Also, don't know off hand what the going rate for elite players is at each position. I just know both will likely break the bank for their position. Asomugha may get ridiculously stupid money. Fitzgerald might actually be worth anything he gets as long as you don't have to give up the draft picks to get.

Understandable. I would go $10 million a year for Asomugha but like you said I bet some team will offer him 15mil a year, I don't which teams can afford that though.

I still see Fitzgerald as too costly a trade. Giving up a 1st and a potential 2nd/3rd + the high contract is too much IMO.

 

[BradyToAmendola]

Arrington is a more than capable nickel, Butler is a second round pick and he's still developing. The only issue is Bodden's health which seems to be coming along.

I disagree, I saw Arrington get beat all the time last year. All teams did was pick on him when they found out throwing to McCourty's side was pointless.

Butler didn't show me anything last year that made me believe he'll develop into anything good.

 

[JackBauer]

Why not? Bodden is good, not great by any means.

So say we go into 2011 with our current CBs. Bodden, McCourty, Wilhite, Butler, Arrington. You think that's good enough? I strongly believe an upgrade at nickle CB is necesarry.

Uh, yeah. Absolutely. McCourty looks like a nascent shutdown corner at CB1. Bodden is an excellent CB2. Wilhite acquitted himself at nickel before he went down to injury. Arrington was a decent CB2, so odds are he could hold it down in either the nickel or dime, and Butler remains a bit of an enigma, but could likely perform as a nickel or dime back.