NE 2018 TC . week 4 . info

[Ring 6]

What if aggression is one of the things that "we need to work on" as Belichick said? WHO DO I BELIEVE? I don't know who to listen to anymore!


. . . just kidding, I'm enjoying your banter. It will be interesting to see how the season plays out.

Aggressive schemes are always part of what you work on in preseason, just like conservative ones, and goal line ones, and odd fronts and even fronts.
Everything gets worked on in the preseason. Picking one item out and saying since they worked on that it proves what they will
do in the regular season is just not a reasonable argument. It’s one that cold br correct by default by not for the reason it’s being made.
Each season, based upon personnel, opponents, injuries, game situations, what is happening on the other side of the ball, etc, there is a level of aggressiveness. Aggressive play calls will occur. Bill Belichick tends to use aggressive defense less frequently than most. That’s his philosophy. Having Tom Brady encourages being more conservative.
Will this year be more or less aggressive than last year? It depends upon all of those factors as perceived by Belichick.
We aren’t going to be more aggressive because Flores likes aggressive defense more than Belichick so he is making changes.
And what we did in a preseason game has absolutely zero value toward knowing what will be called on the regular season.
If Flores likes to be aggressive, when game planning starts he will ask Belichicks permission and the decision will be BBs

 

[long distance]

for future reference

 

[PP2]

Hatfields and McCoys
Hulk Hogan and Roddy Piper
Cain and Abel
Andy Johnson and PP2

Epic battles all.

Ha... I just like jerking his chain, and at the same time keeping my debating acumen sharp. It otherwise isn't a big deal to me as I've never professed to be anything other than an amateur fan who has never played a down of football. I don't have any inside information, or know more than anyone else on this board, or pretend to have any sort of idea of what's going on inside the organization.

 

[PP2]

Aggressive schemes are always part of what you work on in preseason, just like conservative ones, and goal line ones, and odd fronts and even fronts.
Everything gets worked on in the preseason. Picking one item out and saying since they worked on that it proves what they will
do in the regular season is just not a reasonable argument. It’s one that cold br correct by default by not for the reason it’s being made.
Each season, based upon personnel, opponents, injuries, game situations, what is happening on the other side of the ball, etc, there is a level of aggressiveness. Aggressive play calls will occur. Bill Belichick tends to use aggressive defense less frequently than most. That’s his philosophy. Having Tom Brady encourages being more conservative.
Will this year be more or less aggressive than last year? It depends upon all of those factors as perceived by Belichick.
We aren’t going to be more aggressive because Flores likes aggressive defense more than Belichick so he is making changes.
And what we did in a preseason game has absolutely zero value toward knowing what will be called on the regular season.
If Flores likes to be aggressive, when game planning starts he will ask Belichicks permission and the decision will be BBs

As I've said before, this isn't something I'm based on one game. The last game, we worked a lot out of the 311 personnel (some in hurry up), and we also worked on our screen game which was a problem last season, yet I didn't say, oh we're going to go big on receivers this year, or rely heavily on the screen.

BB does have a philosophy, when it comes to defense, but if anything, he is not a micromanager. He will allow Flores to call the defense his way, his style, unless it becomes a problem.

 

[Ring 6]

As I've said before, this isn't something I'm based on one game. The last game, we worked a lot out of the 311 personnel (some in hurry up), and we also worked on our screen game which was a problem last season, yet I didn't say, oh we're going to go big on receivers this year, or rely heavily on the screen.

I think this Thursday, we'll go back to regular, or work on our 21. See more of Develin.

BB does have a philosophy, when it comes to defense, but if anything, he is not a micromanager. He will allow Flores to call the defense his way, his style, unless it becomes a problem.

BB isn’t a micromanager? Are you kidding?
Did you read his comments? The one where he said “that is how we do it, that is how we will do it as long as I am here”
If you honestly think Bill Belichick is turning over his teams defensive philosophy to a guy who isn’t even the coordinator yet, and letting him run the show and decide game strategy for his team “unless there is a problem” I just can’t talk about this with you any more. You have literally fine off the deep end to argue a point you probably realize you have been wrong about all along.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

BB isn’t a micromanager? Are you kidding?
Did you read his comments? The one where he said “that is how we do it, that is how we will do it as long as I am here”

I'll preface this by saying that I don't think we'll witness any dramatic shift in defensive philosophy, but Bill was talking about the pacing of the preseason: the installations of the playbook, the skills and fundementals they wanted to focus on developing, and so on. Numerous employees have corroborated that Bill is not a "my way or the highway" type of person. In fact, he encourages new perspectives and ideas, and he is open to feedback.

What he does embrace is culture and structure. He wants everyone steeped in an understanding of how his staff operates, and he wants people to have a clear picture of his methods and organizational style. Coaches, coordinators, scouts, admins, etc, all need to be on board and share his goals. Once they have a good sense of the dynamic of the organization, and their place in the process, they're not expected to be robotic clones -- in fact, they would be less valuable to the team if they only knew how to regurgitate information, and not how self-reflect and analyze and innovate.

Bill is too smart to go about wasting his time micromanaging people. If he didn't trust them to catch the vision and work toward the goal of winning, then he'd move on and hire someone else. Good leadership is rarely dictatorial, but it does usually require a replication of mindset and behavior. He's building a staff in his own image, and then empowering them to actually accomplish their role-specific imperatives.

 

[Ring 6]

I'll preface this by saying that I don't think we'll witness any dramatic shift in defensive philosophy, but Bill was talking about the pacing of the preseason: the installations of the playbook, the skills and fundementals they wanted to focus on developing, and so on. Numerous employees have corroborated that Bill is not a "my way or the highway" type of person. In fact, he encourages new perspectives and ideas, and he is open to feedback.

What he does embrace is culture and structure. He wants everyone steeped in an understanding of how his staff operates, and he wants people to have a clear picture of his methods and organizational style. Coaches, coordinators, scouts, admins, etc, all need to be on board and share his goals. Once they have a good sense of the dynamic of the organization, and their place in the process, they're not expected to be robotic clones -- in fact, they would be less valuable to the team if they only knew how to regurgitate information, and not how self-reflect and analyze and innovate.

Bill is too smart to go about wasting his micromanaging people. If he didn't trust them to catch the vision and work toward the goal of winning, then he'd move on and hire someone else. Good leadership is rarely dictatorial, but it does usually require a replication of mindset and behavior. He's building a staff in his own image, and then empowering them to actually accomplish their role-specific imperatives.

To be fair using the term “micromanager” just confuses the discussion.
I used it in the terms it was given, with regard to philosophy.
It was implied Belichick let’s assistants determine the philosophy his team will play with and that’s hogwash.
Yes he delegates responsibility to assistants but it’s responsibility to coach things the way he wants them coached and work within the structure of his concepts and philosophy.
It not dictatorship, it’s leadership.
Anyone who thinks that if Brian Flores wants to emulate Rex Ryan and run his philosophy on defense, counter to everything Belichick has ever done, that it will happen is out if their mind.
Flores has never coached anywhere else. His philosophy has been taught to him by Belichick. If he didn’t believe in it, he wouldn’t still be here.
We promote from within for a reason and that reason isn’t so the philosophy can be changed.

As far as the micromanager issue. B.B. pays more attention to detail than anyone, and if those details aren’t being handled the way he wants it gets fixed.
B.B. micromanages his organization by teaching his assistants and employs what he wants, down to the details so that they implement what he wants. He is smart enough to know that his staff can do the micromanaging for him, if they are properly selected and trained.

 

[Ring 6]

Ha... I just like jerking his chain, and at the same time keeping my debating acumen sharp. It otherwise isn't a big deal to me as I've never professed to be anything other than an amateur fan who has never played a down of football. I don't have any inside information, or know more than anyone else on this board, or pretend to have any sort of idea of what's going on inside the organization.

That could be the most full of crap comment in this boards history.

 

[luuked]

Didnt have time yet to listen but cant wait to here what Mayo has to say about the entire "aggressive D" debate.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Didnt have time yet to listen but cant wait to here what Mayo has to say about the entire "aggressive D" debate.

This whole "agressive defense" debate is getting out of hand and WAY too premature to even have.

High makes a couple of comments which were the exact same comments Ty Law, Willie and Lawyer made when RAC became DC in 2001. Easier to comprehend, simplified, etc. Aside from better performance, I challenge anyone to say the 01 D was "more agressive" than the 2000 defense.

People act like when Patricia ran the D they didn't try out some blitz packages during the preseason.

I swear the media is creating this because of the Super Bowl debacle.

Flores may in fact be more agressive in dialing up blitz packages but we'll need to see about 500+ defensive snaps in 2018 to compare that to 2010-2017.

Anyone who thinks Trey Flowers, Clayborn, Wise, Butler, etc are just going to scream up the field after the QB and abandon run & gap responsibility are out of their skulls.

 

[PatsFan2]

This whole "agressive defense" debate is getting out of hand and WAY too premature to even have.

High makes a couple of comments which were the exact same comments Ty Law, Willie and Lawyer made when RAC became DC in 2001. Easier to comprehend, simplified, etc. Aside from better performance, I challenge anyone to say the 01 D was "more agressive" than the 2000 defense.

People act like when Patricia ran the D they didn't try out some blitz packages during the preseason.

I swear the media is creating this because of the Super Bowl debacle.

Flores may in fact be more agressive in dialing up blitz packages but we'll need to see about 500+ defensive snaps in 2018 to compare that to 2010-2017.

Anyone who thinks Trey Flowers, Clayborn, Wise, Butler, etc are just going to scream up the field after the QB and abandon run & gap responsibility are out of their skulls.

Not on First or Second downs but on Third Down Five or more yards I wouldn't expect anything less. Oh and you forgot my boys Rivers and and Davis. Love the Dept along the D-Line.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Not on First or Second downs but on Third Down Five or more yards I wouldn't expect anything less. Oh and you forgot my boys Rivers and and Davis. Love the Dept along the D-Line.

If Flores blitzes on every 3rd and 5+ yards he should be fired.

 

[Sicilian]

I think there can be an appearance of increased aggression too when you have players that have more talent (and energy, on account of a deep rotation). Two players may have the exact same assignment on a particular playcall: for example, engage your blocker, make sure the gap gets pushed to where you have linebacker help in case it's a run, then go after the QB once you're sure it's a pass.

Player A (who has more talent), can still make an effective rush after this, because he has the raw tools and energy required to get pressure, even with that initial delay. This play looks "aggressive".

Player B (while technically sound, is less gifted), succeeds in the first part of his job, but lacks the make up ability to get close to the QB before a pass is thrown. That play looks "passive".

Same playcall, same scheme, but with talent can be more universally disruptive because the player executing it has more ability.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Has to be one of the most boring, repetitive arguments tbh.

Talent > Scheme

We've literally seen this for almost 20 years. On offense & defense. Our talent will dictate our overall philosophy on both sides of the ball.

 

[Sicilian]

Has to be one of the most boring, repetitive arguments tbh.

Talent > Scheme

We've literally seen this for almost 20 years. On offense & defense. Our talent will dictate our overall philosophy on both sides of the ball.

I'm glad you mention offense too, because we often just use Brady as a crutch for how we view the offense, but it factors in there too. Like how pre-2007 the knock on Brady was he didn't have a great deep ball, then we got Randy Moss and suddenly his deep ball was just fine.

I think good coaching and creative scheming is also VERY important. But superior talent provides you a lot more effective options.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I'm glad you mention offense too, because we often just use Brady as a crutch for how we view the offense, but it factors in there too. Like how pre-2007 the knock on Brady was he didn't have a great deep ball, then we got Randy Moss and suddenly his deep ball was just fine.

I think good coaching and creative scheming is also VERY important. But superior talent provides you a lot more effective options.

I'll take talent over both in a heartbeat tbh. Throughout history you'll see the best players make best defenses. Scheme helps utilize their strengths but it doesn't take a genius to figure out how to use a Miller, Ware, Sanders etc. You'll literally change your "scheme" to fit those guys.

Coaching makes a bigger impact in terms of how/who you'll attack a team. For example I'm spending more than 5 minutes on how I'm utilizing Deion Sanders.
I'm focusing the weak links if the opposing side.



What we're seeing this preseason is the coaches seeing what have in their players. I'm not surprised to us pressure the hell out the QB w guys like Clayborn, Rivers, Butler, Flowers, Wise & co

If they stay healthy we absolutely will have a vg-great pass rush. To me it goes w/out saying. It's a great group, mix of
players.

Fwiw. I absolutely believe him when he says that. Again like I've been saying though we're getting more pressure bc of the players, not scheme.

 

[PP2]

BB isn’t a micromanager? Are you kidding?
Did you read his comments? The one where he said “that is how we do it, that is how we will do it as long as I am here”
If you honestly think Bill Belichick is turning over his teams defensive philosophy to a guy who isn’t even the coordinator yet, and letting him run the show and decide game strategy for his team “unless there is a problem” I just can’t talk about this with you any more. You have literally fine off the deep end to argue a point you probably realize you have been wrong about all along.

Case in point:

DeGuglielmo, the OL coach was fired in '16 after the debacle in Denver, for which he failed to catch and correct Stork's head bobbing, which Von Miller himself said that he had noted a few games prior.

Guge also loves to have his linemen play with narrow stances and leaning more forward, and while that does help with the shorter linemen, it spelled disaster for the bigger men like Solder and Vollmer, especially Solder who started losing many one on one matchups.

If BB was a micromanager, how come he never caught Stork's head bob? Why didn't he point it out to Guge?

if BB was a micromanager, how come he never told Guge to stop preaching the narrow stance technique when Solder was losing battles left and right?

The truth is BB is not a micromanager. He finds people who he trusts and lets them take charge, unless they let him down, which DeGuglielmo did, in '16.

 

[PP2]

That could be the most full of crap comment in this boards history.

Thought you said you dealt only in facts? Back up your assertion. Feel free to find and quote anything that contradicts what I said about being an amateur fan who doesn't think he's smarter than anyone else on this board, much less know more than the captain of the defense, what's going on with the D.

 

[PP2]

Has to be one of the most boring, repetitive arguments tbh.

Helps me get through the boring preseason.

 

[Ring 6]

Case in point:

DeGuglielmo, the OL coach was fired in '16 after the debacle in Denver, for which he failed to catch and correct Stork's head bobbing, which Von Miller himself said that he had noted a few games prior.

Oh Jesus here we go with the ignorance factor. We have been through this many times. The head bob is a TRIGGER. The silent snap count is called for ___ beats after the head bob. The ol coach is not responsible for calling the snap count.

Guge also loves to have his linemen play with narrow stances and leaning more forward, and while that does help with the shorter linemen, it spelled disaster for the bigger men like Solder and Vollmer, especially Solder who started losing many one on one matchups.

You seriously think that he cane here and changed the stances of veteran players? You honestly know nothing about football.

If BB was a micromanager, how come he never caught Stork's head bob? Why didn't he point it out to Guge?

Because the ol coach has absolutely nothing to do with it.

if BB was a micromanager, how come he never told Guge to stop preaching the narrow stance technique when Solder was losing battles left and right?

Because it never happened.

The truth is BB is not a micromanager. He finds people who he trusts and lets them take charge, unless they let him down, which DeGuglielmo did, in '16.

Aren’t you the guy who says you know absolutely nothing about what goes on with the team? Yet you are an expert on Belichicks management style?

It depends upon how you define micromanager. Belichick is as detail oriented as anyone out there. He teaches his staff what he wants, so they micromanage their responsibilities fur him.
He doesn’t abdicate philosophy, strategy and how to coach skills to assistants. To suggest that is just ignorant.[/quote][/QUOTE]