McClellin could return to practice this week.

[Ring 6]

The post I responded to, from NE-VT, was about receptions. I get that you like to move the goalposts, but I won't be playing along.

I'm not a fan of Sanu, and I didn't want him for the Patriots when he was available. I don't think he's a particularly good WR. That doesn't make your argument any better, though.

The discussion was about production.
As long as we agree Adams was a significantly better wr than sanu in 2016 we have no beef and I misunderstood your point.

And my bad for doing to you frustrates me when people do to me by taking the piece you were referring to and applying the entire topic to it.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm done. Not with the topic with the way you are choosing to discuss it.

What you are you talking about? You made a claim. All I've done is ask you to back it.

You originally told me to "look at the film", which would indicate that you've looked at some film of Sanu and that's how you made your conclusion. Then you said you don't care to look at the film and I now understand that you never had any film to look at in the first place (you could have just said that, by the way). So what are you using to come to your conclusion that Sanu's lack of targets is DEFINITIVELY about his inability to get open as opposed to game plan, teammates, progression, etc.?

 

[Deus Irae]

The discussion was about production.
As long as we agree Adams was a significantly better wr than sanu in 2016 we have no beef and I misunderstood your point.

And my bad for doing to you frustrates me when people do to me by taking the piece you were referring to and applying the entire topic to it.

Andy, you tried to argue using TDs. TDs. That should have clued you in about a problem, either with your argument or with your attempts to state and defend your argument.

For crying out loud, Edelman had 3 TDs in 2016.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy, you tried to argue using TDs. TDs. That should have clued you in about a problem, either with your argument or with your attempts to state and defend your argument.

For crying out loud, Edelman had 3 TDs in 2016.

TDs matter. Do they not?
We are talking about how good receiver is. Of course TDs is a factor.

 

[Ring 6]

What you are you talking about? You made a claim. All I've done is ask you to back it.

You originally told me to "look at the film", which would indicate that you've looked at some film of Sanu and that's how you made your conclusion. Then you said you don't care to look at the film and I now understand that you never had any film to look at in the first place (you could have just said that, by the way). So what are you using to come to your conclusion that Sanu's lack of targets is DEFINITIVELY about his inability to get open as opposed to game plan, teammates, progression, etc.?

I'm done. I'm not interested in your means of discussion. I have zero interest in you trying to build a case and try to look like a better argued. That's your Schtick and that's fine but it's not for me and I should have walked as soon as you started down that path.

I'll stand with my belief that offenses value WR2 and want to throw the ball to them, and a guy in that role that can't produce more than sanu does is flawed and if he excelled at getting open he would get the ball more. None of your debate tactics will change that.

So there you have the long version of I am done

 

[NE-VT]

I'm not sure asking Atlanta fans to critique one if their players short comings is worthwhile. I mean the issue is his production is weak but Falcons fans think they gave the greatest offense in history so of course they will make excuses. That's what I would expect at least.

You are correct that homers are often blinded to negative of their teams. They also sometimes have insights into what a player offers schematically more than you can get from simply looking at the stats. I don't think you should rule out the take of a flacons fan simply because they root for the team. I believe there are many patriots fans among us who have insight on the team, despite their potential biases.

A second fan has responded. I am going to repost them both because I would like the direction to be refocused to evaluating Sanu's strengths and weakness:

From my perspective: Sanu has fantastic hands (I don't know what his drop numbers are, but the eye test would dispute any of that). There has to be something said about matt ryan having 2 safety blankets. Red zone target. big physical reciever like jones, opens up both jones AND the run game much more. Huge part of why we were so successful within 20 last year. His numbers aren't where his value comes from. football outsider analytics is probably comparing him to #2's in less diverse offenses.

This guy is an incredible outside run blocker (they bunch him tight on sweeps rather often). He is a super clean route runner. And he doesn't not demand coverage (if that makes sense). Basically you don't have to double him, but single can be dangerous.

Sanu opens up soooo much gameplan wise. Having taylor gabriel opposite Jones is a different ballgame. Gabriel is a speedster so has 2 types of plays, bubble screen or deep ball. By having 2 physical guys, the amount of misdirection is insane. You throw gabriel up field to take the top, in addition to all this, and you have a mix of threats that is pretty damn perfect.

Sanu's presence prevents defenses from doing what they did in 2015 -- double covering Julio and jamming him at the line. Teams can't play press man on Sanu because he is too big and physical, and they can't double him and give Gabriel one on one coverage outside. Roddy (at least in the last couple years of his career) didn't have the physicality or the speed to punish defenses for playing aggressive D against Julio, and we didn't have Tony Gonzalez to lean on in that role.

His height and size are also a major threat in the red zone.

 

[Kontradiction]

EDIT: Received a PM response from another member to let the thread go another direction, so that I will.

 

[Deus Irae]

TDs matter. Do they not?

No, not really, particularly in this era of high specialization, and more particularly when you're just looking at one season in this era of high specialization.

We are talking about how good receiver is. Of course TDs is a factor.

Unless someone has a career long penchant for racking up the TD totals, they're essentially meaningless. As I noted, Edelman had only 3 last year. Blount, on the other hand, set the Patriots record for running TDs, and BB didn't even bother bringing him back.

Look, there are arguments to be made about the mediocrity of Sanu. TDs from 2016, in a comparison against Adams, though, is not where you you can make hay.

 

[Ring 6]

No, not really, particularly in this era of high specialization, and more particularly when you're just looking at one season in this era of high specialization.



Unless someone has a career long penchant for racking up the TD totals, they're essentially meaningless. As I noted, Edelman had only 3 last year. Blount, on the other hand, set the Patriots record for running TDs, and BB didn't even bother bringing him back.

Look, there are arguments to be made about the mediocrity of Sanu. TDs from 2016, in a comparison against Adams, though, is not where you you can make hay.

We will have to disagree on that one. TDs are a part of the job. If you aren't as effective in the red zone or getting to the end zone than a guy who is as or more productive than you are it's a factor.
Put it this way I'll take the guy with 59/653 and 12 TDS over the guy with 59/653 and 4 TDS because the first guy is giving me something the other guy doesn't.
But that's my view if yours is different so be it. There are no rules saying how you have to evaluate the value and quality of a player.

 

[Real World]

Where's Adam Seward when you need him?

 

[Joker]

Where's Adam Seward when you need him?

No politics. This is a Patriots football discussion site only. Thanx for your co-operation.

 

[maineman209]

No politics. This is a Patriots football discussion site only. Thanx for your co-operation.

Closely resembles my last paycheck.