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Matching up with the Denver passing attack


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ivanvamp

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The stats just jump out at you: 5477 yards, 55 touchdowns, 115.1 rating, 4 receivers with 10+ touchdown receptions, 5 receivers with 60+ receptions and 500+ receiving yards.

Just how are the Patriots going to deal with the record-setting passing attack of Denver?

Let's walk through it one by one.

First, Peyton Manning. We all know he is one of the most intelligent QBs ever to play the game. He knows all the reads, makes the right calls, knows who is going to be open. Rarely does he make a horrible decision. He is not mobile at all, but, like Brady, he shifts around in the pocket pretty well. He still has a good arm, and it's very accurate, though he doesn't throw a tight spiral. He slices apart blitzes, but, like most QBs, has trouble with pressure up the middle. His arm strength isn't what it once was, but he can still make all the throws, at any distance.

Now, the receivers.

(1) Demariyus Thomas. 92 rec, 1430 yds, 14 td. Absolute stud. Occasional case of the dropsies, but my goodness, what a weapon. Big, fast, generally good hands, incredibly athletic, and absolute nightmare.

(2) Eric Decker. 87 rec, 1288 yds, 11 td. Another good-sized receiver, can run all the patterns.

(3) Wes Welker. 73 rec, 778 yds, 10 td. We all know what Welker is about. Very tough slot matchup. Coming off a couple of concussions, however. Might bear watching if he takes a big shot.

(4) Julius Thomas. 65 rec, 788 yds, 12 td. Gifted, athletic tight end. Very tough matchup for linebackers.

(5) Knowshon Moreno. 60 rec, 548 yds, 3 td. Excellent receiver out of the backfield, can put up big numbers either rushing or receiving.

Now, the Patriots have been ridiculed for their pass defense for years. But this year, whether the pundits want to admit it or not, it has been much better.

- #9 in the NFL in opposing passer rating
- #4 in the NFL in opposing pass completion %
- #13 in the NFL in opposing yards per pass attempt
- #5 in the NFL in sacks, #6 in sack yardage
- #12 in the NFL in interceptions

So the Patriots' pass defense has actually been solidly above-average at a minimum this year, and in reality probably a little better than that. It's not a bad pass defense; on the contrary, it's pretty good.

But it's the individual matchups that really interest me. They may play a lot of zone to stay away from Denver's pick plays, but if they go man, here's how I can envision it looking:

- Talib on D. Thomas. Talib does his best work on bigger receivers (Andre Johnson, Jimmy Graham, etc.). He has the speed and strength to match up well with Thomas.

- Dennard on Decker. Dennard is physical, and Decker does not appear to do as well against physical corners. A healthy Dennard makes a huge difference for the Pats.

- Arrington or Ryan on Welker. Arrington is a solid slot corner, but Ryan has turned in an exceptional rookie season. He is the #2 CB in the NFL in terms of opposing passer rating on balls thrown to him (Richard Sherman is #1).

- Arrington or Ryan on Caldwell. Should Denver go 4 WR, Caldwell comes in, and then both Arrington and Ryan stay in.

- Collins on J. Thomas. He has the size and athleticism to stick to Thomas. He has really begun to break out the past few games, and might be a key player in the game.

- Fletcher on Moreno. Fletcher is a solid cover LB.

And then there's McCourty, who could, depending on who is in, play man against either of the Thomases or Decker. Or he could play centerfield and help on the deep balls.

Long story short, I think the Pats actually do have the horses to provide good coverage against Denver's receiving weapons. In their first game, D.Thomas had 4 rec, 41 yds, and 1 td. Welker had 4 rec, 31 yds. Decker had 1 rec, 5 yds. J.Thomas didn't play, but Jacob Tamme had 5 rec, 47 yds. Manning was just 19-36 for 150 yds, 2 td, 1 int.

Then it comes to the pass rush. In their first game, NE only had 1 sack and 4 QB hits. But the pass rush has improved since their last game, with the emergence of Chris Jones and Jamie Collins.

I think that there's no real way to *stop* Denver's passing offense. But the Patriots do have the resources to keep it mostly in check (<300 yds). I think they will once again put a lot of DBs out there and invite Denver to run, and the run defense is bolstered by the presence of Siliga, so I don't think they'll find it as easy going as last time.

I think NE can hold Denver's record-setting offense in check this Sunday.
 
One thing that may be the difference is Pats pass rush vs Broncos pass
protection. If PM gets time he will find a receiver that gets free.
Coverage will only work for so long with out pressure on PM.

Collins may make the difference but I'd hoped he would have more
experience by this time of the year. Covering a quality TE like JT
is a lot to ask of the athletic LB without that much experience.
This is a big unknown. I really hope if he is called on to cover JT
that he can rise to the challenge.
 
I said before that game and have said it since: maybe only Seattle is more equipped to deal with Denver through the air than we are.

1. Talib -> D. Thomas with safety help over the top on deeper patterns.
2. Dennard -> Decker
3. Arrington/Ryan -> Welker with S or LB chipping Welker at LOS whenever possible.
4. Arrington/Ryan -> Caldwell
5. Collins/McCourty/Gregory -> J. Thomas (depending on the route run)

I think this is pretty standard. The team actually showed a lot of man to man looks in the last match-up and generally avoided the zone on anything except plays where Denver was faced with longer down and distance. Talib on Demaryius with the occasional safety help for deeper routes seems right, Dennard can shut down Decker one on one. I would be happier with Arrington on Welker, but Ryan may also be capable as long as he has more help. Arrington or Ryan can handle Caldwell. Julius Thomas is the x factor and should find plenty of ways to hurt us come Sunday, but I'm confident in Collins' ability to contain him if that's who Denver targets.
 
The pass defense gave up some big plays to luck and the colts. Denver is vastly superior....
 
I'd like to see our CBs get really physical at the line of scrimmage

Especially Talib on D. Thomas
 
The pass defense gave up some big plays to luck and the colts. Denver is vastly superior....

Luck's deep better and he throws a better spiral. Overall though, you're probably right.
 
I said before that game and have said it since: maybe only Seattle is more equipped to deal with Denver through the air than we are.

1. Talib -> D. Thomas with safety help over the top on deeper patterns.
2. Dennard -> Decker
3. Arrington/Ryan -> Welker with S or LB chipping Welker at LOS whenever possible.
4. Arrington/Ryan -> Caldwell
5. Collins/McCourty/Gregory -> J. Thomas (depending on the route run)

I think this is pretty standard. The team actually showed a lot of man to man looks in the last match-up and generally avoided the zone on anything except plays where Denver was faced with longer down and distance. Talib on Demaryius with the occasional safety help for deeper routes seems right, Dennard can shut down Decker one on one. I would be happier with Arrington on Welker, but Ryan may also be capable as long as he has more help. Arrington or Ryan can handle Caldwell. Julius Thomas is the x factor and should find plenty of ways to hurt us come Sunday, but I'm confident in Collins' ability to contain him if that's who Denver targets.



This is exactly how i see it. I honestly feel much better about their chances in Denver now than i did a couple of months ago.
 
The pass defense gave up some big plays to luck and the colts. Denver is vastly superior....
Those big plays were on great plays that Luck made than Manning simply can't anymore. The Broncos are better at some things, obviously, but the big play downfield offense isn't one of them.
 
Mannings longest completion against the Chargers was 21 yards.
 
The pass defense gave up some big plays to luck and the colts. Denver is vastly superior....

Luck has mobility/arm strength that Manning doesnt however on the same token...

some of those incompletions, or plays where luck escaped the pocket to make a play wont happen with manning. which means instead of dialing back the pass rush to contain the scramble, jones/ninkovich can focus on pinning their ears back and rushing the passer
 
Last night it hit me:

THIS IS SB 36 REDUX!

The Greatest Show on Turf was based on a great QB loaded with great receivers and an excellent RB receiver out of the backfield. That offense was also predicated on the QB throwing to a spot on the field before the WR even made his final break to run to that spot.

Sound like anyone we know?

Here's where it gets good:

The last time we had a stud shut down physical corner like Talib? Ty Law

The last time we had a tall LB who could shut down a TE in space like Collins? Willie Mac

Folks - this is SB 36 Redux. The plan should be right there in front of our eyes!

****Hit the WR's and TE's at the line of scrimmage, knocking them off their (and Manning's) timing expectations. The Broncos are running the Mike Martz/Ernie Zampese Offense.

This is the best Patriots secondary since Mike Haynes/Ray Claiborne/Prentice McCray/Tim Fox. What is even better is that they are HEALTHIER (Mr. Talib and Mr. Dennard) and MORE EXPERIENCED (Mr. Ryan and Mr. Harmon) than they have been all season.

It's all coming together.
 
Last edited:
Mannings longest completion against the Chargers was 21 yards.

And if I'm not mistaken, was on that 3rd and 17 on the final drive where A) the Chargers seemed to somehow FORGET about J Thomas, and B) Manning almost threw it out of bounds. Thomas needed some fancy footwork to make it a catch.
 
The stats just jump out at you: 5477 yards, 55 touchdowns, 115.1 rating, 4 receivers with 10+ touchdown receptions, 5 receivers with 60+ receptions and 500+ receiving yards.

Just how are the Patriots going to deal with the record-setting passing attack of Denver?

Let's walk through it one by one.

First, Peyton Manning. We all know he is one of the most intelligent QBs ever to play the game. He knows all the reads, makes the right calls, knows who is going to be open. Rarely does he make a horrible decision. He is not mobile at all, but, like Brady, he shifts around in the pocket pretty well. He still has a good arm, and it's very accurate, though he doesn't throw a tight spiral. He slices apart blitzes, but, like most QBs, has trouble with pressure up the middle. His arm strength isn't what it once was, but he can still make all the throws, at any distance.

Now, the receivers.

(1) Demariyus Thomas. 92 rec, 1430 yds, 14 td. Absolute stud. Occasional case of the dropsies, but my goodness, what a weapon. Big, fast, generally good hands, incredibly athletic, and absolute nightmare.

(2) Eric Decker. 87 rec, 1288 yds, 11 td. Another good-sized receiver, can run all the patterns.

(3) Wes Welker. 73 rec, 778 yds, 10 td. We all know what Welker is about. Very tough slot matchup. Coming off a couple of concussions, however. Might bear watching if he takes a big shot.

(4) Julius Thomas. 65 rec, 788 yds, 12 td. Gifted, athletic tight end. Very tough matchup for linebackers.

(5) Knowshon Moreno. 60 rec, 548 yds, 3 td. Excellent receiver out of the backfield, can put up big numbers either rushing or receiving.

Now, the Patriots have been ridiculed for their pass defense for years. But this year, whether the pundits want to admit it or not, it has been much better.

- #9 in the NFL in opposing passer rating
- #4 in the NFL in opposing pass completion %
- #13 in the NFL in opposing yards per pass attempt
- #5 in the NFL in sacks, #6 in sack yardage
- #12 in the NFL in interceptions

So the Patriots' pass defense has actually been solidly above-average at a minimum this year, and in reality probably a little better than that. It's not a bad pass defense; on the contrary, it's pretty good.

But it's the individual matchups that really interest me. They may play a lot of zone to stay away from Denver's pick plays, but if they go man, here's how I can envision it looking:

- Talib on D. Thomas. Talib does his best work on bigger receivers (Andre Johnson, Jimmy Graham, etc.). He has the speed and strength to match up well with Thomas.

- Dennard on Decker. Dennard is physical, and Decker does not appear to do as well against physical corners. A healthy Dennard makes a huge difference for the Pats.

- Arrington or Ryan on Welker. Arrington is a solid slot corner, but Ryan has turned in an exceptional rookie season. He is the #2 CB in the NFL in terms of opposing passer rating on balls thrown to him (Richard Sherman is #1).

- Arrington or Ryan on Caldwell. Should Denver go 4 WR, Caldwell comes in, and then both Arrington and Ryan stay in.

- Collins on J. Thomas. He has the size and athleticism to stick to Thomas. He has really begun to break out the past few games, and might be a key player in the game.

- Fletcher on Moreno. Fletcher is a solid cover LB.

And then there's McCourty, who could, depending on who is in, play man against either of the Thomases or Decker. Or he could play centerfield and help on the deep balls.

Long story short, I think the Pats actually do have the horses to provide good coverage against Denver's receiving weapons. In their first game, D.Thomas had 4 rec, 41 yds, and 1 td. Welker had 4 rec, 31 yds. Decker had 1 rec, 5 yds. J.Thomas didn't play, but Jacob Tamme had 5 rec, 47 yds. Manning was just 19-36 for 150 yds, 2 td, 1 int.

Then it comes to the pass rush. In their first game, NE only had 1 sack and 4 QB hits. But the pass rush has improved since their last game, with the emergence of Chris Jones and Jamie Collins.

I think that there's no real way to *stop* Denver's passing offense. But the Patriots do have the resources to keep it mostly in check (<300 yds). I think they will once again put a lot of DBs out there and invite Denver to run, and the run defense is bolstered by the presence of Siliga, so I don't think they'll find it as easy going as last time.

I think NE can hold Denver's record-setting offense in check this Sunday.


You Sir, have penetrated to the Truth.

In 2001 there was a "The Greatest Show on Turf" who had too many good receivers for any team to cover, Teams were getting barbequed because of it, They had 5 good receivers and could also bring Marshall Faulk out to the backfield to make it 6. Then BB's master stroke was when he acquired Terrel Buckley and had six competent DBs to match up against the Rams, including a shut down CB. The Rams formula of destroying teams throwing against the 4th and 5th DB scrubs of the opponent wouldn't work. The Pats 4th and 5th were NOT scrubs.

Such is the situation today, now that the secondary has returned to health. Instead of a pick up like Buckley, this year the significant transaction was, cutting the last scrub DB, Marquis Cole.

Back then we had a dink and dunk O; and a middling at best D. Now we have the best running game in the NFL; and the best short passing game as well with a 100 catch/1000 yard receiver. Lots better than 30 catches, from a 5'8" rookie in Deon Branch.

Do you want a BB game plan for the Bronks? Dust off the HOF game plan for the game against the Superbowl Champ Rams.
.
 
You Sir, have penetrated to the Truth.

In 2001 there was a "The Greatest Show on Turf" who had too many good receivers for any team to cover, Teams were getting barbequed because of it, They had 5 good receivers and could also bring Marshall Faulk out to the backfield to make it 6. Then BB's master stroke was when he acquired Terrel Buckley and had six competent DBs to match up against the Rams, including a shut down CB. The Rams formula of destroying teams throwing against the 4th and 5th DB scrubs of the opponent wouldn't work. The Pats 4th and 5th were NOT scrubs.

Such is the situation today, now that the secondary has returned to health. Instead of a pick up like Buckley, this year the significant transaction was, cutting the last scrub DB, Marquis Cole.

Back then we had a dink and dunk O; and a middling at best D. Now we have the best running game in the NFL; and the best short passing game as well with a 100 catch/1000 yard receiver. Lots better than 30 catches, from a 5'8" rookie in Deon Branch.

Do you want a BB game plan for the Bronks? Dust off the HOF game plan for the game against the Superbowl Champ Rams.
.

Great analysis, but perhaps you missed post #11?
 
I like the line of thought, but most of that 2001 SB gameplan has now been made 'illegal' ever since Polian pooped his diapers back in 2006.

Some of it is relevant, but taking the receivers off their routes like we did back then is likely to get PI called a ton - especially against Manning at home.
 
Last night it hit me:

THIS IS SB 36 REDUX!

The Greatest Show on Turf was based on a great QB loaded with great receivers and an excellent RB receiver out of the backfield. That offense was also predicated on the QB throwing to a spot on the field before the WR even made his final break to run to that spot.

Sound like anyone we know?

Here's where it gets good:

The last time we had a stud shut down physical corner like Talib? Ty Law

The last time we had a tall LB who could shut down a TE in space like Collins? Willie Mac

Folks - this is SB 36 Redux. The plan should be right there in front of our eyes!

****Hit the WR's and TE's at the line of scrimmage, knocking them off their (and Manning's) timing expectations. The Broncos are running the Mike Martz/Ernie Zampese Offense.

This is the best Patriots secondary since Mike Haynes/Ray Claiborne/Prentice McCray/Tim Fox. What is even better is that they are HEALTHIER (Mr. Talib and Mr. Dennard) and MORE EXPERIENCED (Mr. Ryan and Mr. Harmon) than they have been all season.

It's all coming together.

Don't forget a Safety for the RB Moreno too.

I always thought you can judge a Man's genius by how much he agrees with you.
This has been my EXACT THOUGHTS for quite a while.


Shmessy Your a Genius!!!:snob::snob::eek::eek::D
 
The pass defense gave up some big plays to luck and the colts. Denver is vastly superior....

Superior but different. Manning doesn't have the cannon arm to whip the ball down field on a rope. The Denver receivers are fast, but not necessarily quick sans Welker. I think the Patriots secondary matches up very well against the Denver receivers. They are physical at the LOS, they have excellent man cover skills and McCourty is an excellent FS.

The Patriots pass rush is no slouch either, especially with Jones coming off the edge against a backup tackle.

Defense wins championships. I am fairly confident the Patriots will compete in this game. If they lose, it will be because they couldn't put points on the board.

As for the 2001 Rams comparisons, I don't really buy into it. That Rams team threw a lot to HOF RB Marshall Faulk and used its speed and quickness to run deeper routes. Manning will dink and dunk and take some chances with over the top throws, but the offenses are very different.
 
As for the 2001 Rams comparisons, I don't really buy into it. That Rams team threw a lot to HOF RB Marshall Faulk and used its speed and quickness to run deeper routes. Manning will dink and dunk and take some chances with over the top throws, but the offenses are very different.

Pass catching RB's:

2001 Marshall Faulk: Rec: 83, Yds: 765, Avg: 9.2
Marshall Faulk NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

2013 Knowshon Moreno Rec: 60, Yds: 548, Avg: 9.1
Knowshon Moreno, RB for the Denver Broncos at NFL.com
 
Defense wins Championships right? Why is nobody saying we have the better Defense? I think we are one of the few Teams who can give that Denver Offense Trouble. I think our CB's match-up well with their outside recievers and we have players in the Middle of our Defense..ie McCourty-Arrington and Collins who we can get creative with to offset Denver's play from the Slot. I hope BB have the mother of all Gameplans in store.
 
Defense wins Championships right? Why is nobody saying we have the better Defense? I think we are one of the few Teams who can give that Denver Offense Trouble. I think our CB's match-up well with their outside recievers and we have players in the Middle of our Defense..ie McCourty-Arrington and Collins who we can get creative with to offset Denver's play from the Slot. I hope BB have the mother of all Gameplans in store.

I know it's hard to use these rankings because the Pats' D is not really what it was in the beginning of the year (no Wilfork/Kelly/Mayo/Spikes, but the emergence of Ryan and Collins, etc.). But for what it's worth, here are the defensive rankings of Denver and New England:

Denver: #22 in points allowed, #19 in yards allowed
New England: #10 in points allowed, #26 in yards allowed

Denver allowed 399 points; NE allowed 338. That's a difference of 61 points, or nearly 4 a game. Of course, Denver's offense outscored New England's by a ton.

But let's just look at, say, the last 4 games of the regular season, plus playoff - so 5 games total.

NE
- vs Cle - 26 points, 494 yds
- at Mia - 24 points, 378 yds
- at Bal - 7 points, 358 yds
- vs Buf - 20 points, 393 yds
- vs Ind - 22 points, 386 yds
AVG: 19.8 points, 401.8 yds

Den
- vs Ten - 28 points, 254 yds
- vs SD - 27 points, 337 yds
- at Hou - 13 points, 240 yds
- at Oak - 14 points, 255 yds
- vs SD - 17 points, 259 yds
AVG: 19.8 points, 269.0 yds

So the points are exactly equal, but Denver has allowed a lot fewer yards. But now, of course, they've lost Harris and Miller, and NE seems to be getting healthier on defense.
 
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