Mac: "I want to be coached harder"

[Rob0729]

You are trying to convince me, but you're failing, cuz I'm not an idiot.
Mac Jones is a mediocre qb, he makes too many dumb mistakes...who slides before the sticks, CONSISTENTLY....MAC JONES.

I don't think you are an idiot, but you are clearly blinded by your bias against Jones. Show me video of the dumb mistake LAST YEAR or him sliding before the sticks LAST YEAR. You are projecting your views of him this year on him last year.

 

[Rob0729]

You are getting a little Mac10-ish with your Mac defense of everything, but these are great clips and give me some hope if the OL ever gets fixed in the future.

No I am just not rewriting history.

Here is the thing. I don't know if Mac Jones is the future for this team. I just know the Pats are ruining him and not giving him a real opportunity to actually have a shot to be the guy. That is why I defend him.

And already said my debating style is aggressive when I debate people who I feel are being way too unfair the other way. Debating with someone with a more measured view of Jones, I am more measured in my debate.

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

We should have never drafted the guy.
Cause he played for Saban and won with a stacked roster.
We knew his physical limitations yet we took him.
Now we lose our offensive mastermind and 99 percent of the offensive staff including our Goat O line coach.

This is a recipe for an unmitigated disaster on offense.
We got a guy calling plays who never has done it in his life, not to mention is not improving week to week in fact the offense is plummeting.
If there isn’t a complete rebuild to the offense both Bill and Kraft are senile.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

I don't think you are an idiot, but you are clearly blinded by your bias against Jones. Show me video of the dumb mistake LAST YEAR or him sliding before the sticks LAST YEAR. You are projecting your views of him this year on him last year.

I don't have a bias against Jones, I like him.
I also think he's Andy Dalton.
Why do I have to go back to LAST YEAR, are you saying his idiocy THIS YEAR isn't real, because he was great(lol) LAST year?
He's sliding before the sticks THIS YEAR.

 

[Jlaff]

You mean their productive players that are all having career worst years across the board?

I kinda hope bill puts in zappe so he looks like he did against the bears (5 batted passes, 2 interceptions) and people can understand how poor the coaching and playcalling is. We no longer are playing the sisters of the poor...

Pats would be fine. Any team Zappe starts against instantly becomes the worst team in the NFL for that week.

 

[Dingleberry]

Patricia is the OC and o-line coach. If you want label him as a complete failure as an offensive line coach rather than an OC, so be it.

But an OC is supposed to scheme the offense to maximize the team's strengths and minimize the team's weaknesses. Last year, when the o-line sucked, McDaniels schemed the offense to minimize that problem by having a sixth lineman or using a FB to block (oops, don't have one this year) or running plays away from the weak parts of the line or whatever it takes. If the o-line is a disaster it is on the OC and the o-line coach to fix it. I blame them both.

This OL, as it is currently, may be unfixable. If that hypothesis is accurate, then no OL coach or OC is going to overcome that.

I am the biggest BB slurper, but the GM might deserve the blame on this one.

If Mac gets a pass because the OL is worse than bad (maybe true), then Patricia should too.

If the Patriots had an average to above average OL, who is to say his play calling wouldn't be successful?

 

[Rob0729]

I don't have a bias against Jones, I like him.
I also think he's Andy Dalton.
Why do I have to go back to LAST YEAR, are you saying his idiocy THIS YEAR isn't real, because he was great(lol) LAST year?
He's sliding before the sticks THIS YEAR.

I am saying this year the coaching staff are ruining the guy and pointing to how last year some of his greatest strengths are now some of his greatest weaknesses this year. That is pointing to coach being a big part of the problem.

If Jones built on his play last year, no one would be complaining about his pocket presence this year. But the Patriots didn't give him any experienced offensive coaches to help develop him in a crucial year and the scrapped an offense he did pretty well in and replaced it with an offense that, although simpler for players to learn, didn't play into Jones' strengths or the strengths of the players around him. And because they made the inexperience OC also the o-line coach, the o-line is a disaster and constantly putting Jones under pressure.

Again, Jones may not be the QB of the future for the Patriots, but Belichick really set him up for failure. Not purposely, but is the end result. And his ceiling going into this year was far higher than Andy Dalton. He was never going to be an elite or top 5 QB, but he had a chance to become a top ten. Now I worry he is ruined forever.

 

[Rob0729]

This OL, as it is currently, may be unfixable. If that hypothesis is accurate, then no OL coach or OC is going to overcome that.

I am the biggest BB slurper, but the GM might deserve the blame on this one.

If Mac gets a pass because the OL is worse than bad (maybe true), then Patricia should too.

If the Patriots had an average to above average OL, who is to say his play calling wouldn't be successful?

The o-line now is probably unfixable. It probably wasn't if they addressed the issues early in the season. Fixing an o-line doesn't usually happen overnight. This is why Belichick always says you don't know what type of team you have until late October. You fix the problems with the o-line early in the season so that everything comes together by midseason so you can make a playoff push. If they start addressing it now, the o-line might be ok by the playoffs.

We have Strange really regress too as a player. That is probably because he doesn't get the proper coaching from Patricia because Patricia is splitting duties and cannot spend the time necessary with the o-line.

Patricia doesn't get free pass because the o-line is play bad when he is the o-line coach and OC. If the Pats lose out for the rest of the season, do we give Belichick a free pass for going 6-11 because the team sucks?

You look at the o-line, the problem isn't all talent. It mental errors and people finding the right blocking assignments. That is on coaching.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

NOONE wants Mac to be a stud more than I do, I just don't think he is.
I also agree that Bill ****ed up this year with Matt being the OC, that seems to have been a big mistake.

 

[Ian]

If Mac gets a pass because the OL is worse than bad (maybe true), then Patricia should too.

But wait...isn't Patricia the OL coach?

 

[Rob0729]

Pats would be fine. Any team Zappe starts against instantly becomes the worst team in the NFL for that week.

All two of those starts? Are you sure?

You do realize even before Mac went down, people were circling the Lions and Browns as two of the easiest wins on the schedule in large part because their defenses sucked?

 

[Dingleberry]

But wait...isn't Patricia the OL coach?

Again, if Trent Brown is either fat and lazy or sick. If whoever is at RT is just devoid of talent. If the rookie LG has hit a rookie wall. If the undersized veteran center is injured or missing game......does it matter who the OL coach is?

But let's say he sucks as an OL coach and it's not the players who suck. That does not damn Patricia the OC. Just like BB the GM screwing up doesn't make BB a bad coach.

Someone said earlier Sean Payton as OC couldn't succeed here because of the OL. If true, then how the hell can we say Patricia the OC wouldn't be successful with a functioning OL.

 

[Ian]

If the Patriots had an average to above average OL, who is to say his play calling wouldn't be successful?

The toughest part with Matt is he's also been inconsistent and there have been plays where Mac has overcome a few questionable play calls, especially based on Warner's recent video. But the spacing remains an issue, they have guy running routes and bringing their defenders into the coverage, etc. They've got their work cut out for them and I don't know how it gets better in time for them to make a run.

 

[Ian]

That does not damn Patricia the OC.

The spacing and the play design sort of does, though, and it's definitely something that will need to be addressed over the offseason.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

But wait...isn't Patricia the OL coach?

Whats he's saying is if say Dante came back to coach the line how would MP do as an OC

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

It is but I wonder how much is also coaching and the OL being a sieve where he's seeing ghosts. He had really good pocket presence last season. Bedard said his footwork seems to have regressed which is a sign of not getting enough coaching.

I think we need to fix the coaching first. Then see what we have and if it is fixable or not.

He had very good pocket presence last year. So this could be a product of coaching and a historically bad o-line.

Granted, as we saw with Tony Eason about 40 years ago, you constantly get your QB under pressure and getting hit at an unprecedented rate and he can start to see ghosts for the rest of his career no matter how much protection he gets.

I think the coaching criticism is overblown/exaggerated. I think coaching is critical for guys that need discipline and skill development, but coaching will never change natural reactions and personality traits. Mac is not one of those guys that needs discipline, and in general, a coach is not going to teach essential QB traits like pocket presence or field vision - that is why some QBs make it and some don't. I am hopeful the difference between last year and now is the obvious collapse of Brown and Wynn, and the Strange learning curve. If Mac's troubles are a result of coaching, I think he is cooked.

 

[Jlaff]

All two of those starts? Are you sure?

You do realize even before Mac went down, people were circling the Lions and Browns as two of the easiest wins on the schedule in large part because their defenses sucked?

Zappe's ability to make every team he starts against the worst team in the league is uncanny. Maybe the biggest coaching failure of Belichick's career in not waving that wand.

 

[Ian]

Again, if Trent Brown is either fat and lazy or sick. If whoever is at RT is just devoid of talent. If the rookie LG has hit a rookie wall. If the undersized veteran center is injured or missing game......does it matter who the OL coach is?

But let's say he sucks as an OL coach and it's not the players who suck. That does not damn Patricia the OC. Just like BB the GM screwing up doesn't make BB a bad coach.

Someone said earlier Sean Payton as OC couldn't succeed here because of the OL. If true, then how the hell can we say Patricia the OC wouldn't be successful with a functioning OL.

I'm just joking around, BTW. Sarcasm, etc., obviously doesn't translate well. Watched a bunch of the talking heads last night and can't believe where we're at...definitely a little crazy.

 

[Dingleberry]

I'm just joking around, BTW. Sarcasm, etc., obviously doesn't translate well. Watched a bunch of the talking heads last night and can't believe where we're at...definitely a little crazy.

I am unoffendable, so no worries. But I didn't see anything combative with what you wrote.

However, I grew up on the NH seacoast. Don't make me come home to drop gloves with you!

 

[Rob0729]

Zappe's ability to make every team he starts against the worst team in the league is uncanny. Maybe the biggest coaching failure of Belichick's career in not waving that wand.

Again, two teams. The were the two worst teams in terms of scoring defense a few weeks ago. The Lions are still dead last, but the Browns moved up one to the 30th best defense in terms of scoring. Are the guys keeping stats Mac Jones apologists?