Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[Huckleberry1]

How Patriots Owner Robert Kraft Could Get Off in Prostitution Case

Great headline

 

[Ring 6]

You might enjoy reading Sinclair Lewis' It Can't Happen Here and Hannah Arendt's Eichmann in Jerusalem and then reflecting on the issues of freedom, police powers, and individualism.

Why would I do that?
Are you telling me that you believe that the police having probable cause and getting warrant and stopping a suspect leaving the scene of a potential crime to identify who he is represents fascism?

 

[Ring 6]

I am not advocating for an "anarcho-syndicalist commune" or a Hobbesian state of nature in which life is nasty, brutish, and short.

I am simply noting that it's in the pendulum swing of freedom, we are heading in the wrong direction. The powers of the state have grown markedly in my lifetime and the technology available to monitor every crevice of people's lives has invaded our privacy to the point where none of us is "Free". I am sure that each one of us breaks dozens of laws each day in happy oblivion (some bureaucratic rule we never knew about) or complete disregard (speed limits?).

Freedom is an unnatural state of affairs in human history - it's inherently unstable and there is never a shortage of people who want to limit it. I am always in favor of the individual fighting tooth and nail against the state to keep the power imbalance in check, before it sinks us all. I know, it sounds crazy and extreme to lots of people - but if you know people who grew up in totalitarian environments and hear their stories, it makes sense. We have something special here and we lack sufficient care to keep it.

And for the record, BK sounds guilty of what he has been accused and the process will sort that all out. It also sounds like LE overreached in their conduct and I want that to come out into the sunlight, if true, as well. There do not appear to be any angels in this story - just horribly flawed human beings.

Please explain how law enforcement overreached regarding kraft.

 

[goheels22002]

What an embarrassment YOU are. Shouldn't you be more worried about the embarrassment named Woody Johnson?

That's Ambassador Woody Johnson to you. I see what you did there. It's not far from Bob Kraft's arrest report at the massage parlor to thoughts of "Woody" "Johnson." There is very little about Woody Johnson that's not embarrassing.

 

[venecol]

I really think the traffic stop ID stuff is a non starter. If a cop asks you for your ID and you didn't have to give it to them but you do anyways why would that be inadmissible? Even if it was under false pretenses. Cops can lie to you and it doesn't invalidate what they found.

Because a false traffic stop is illegal and so is everything else that comes with it.

 

[Joker]

What an embarrassment Kraft is.

and if anyone knows embarrassment it is you...the VERITABLE king of red faced mistakes.

 

[venecol]

Agreed. My point was people were suggesting that it was phony because the cop must have invented a traffic violation.
Clearly identifying the man leaving the scene of a potential crime is reason enough.

But according to reports that's not what happened, it is alluded that he made a traffic stop for the sole purpose of identifying Kraft, which is not allowed:

" A Jupiter police officer then pulled the Bentley over on a traffic stop and asked Kraft — the front-seat passenger — for identification.

The billionaire handed over his Massachusetts driver’s license. Legal experts suggest this traffic stop could be illegal because it appears to have been done on the pretext of a traffic violation, but — as the affidavit states — was in fact carried out to identify Kraft, who wasn’t driving the car."

Sorry Andy as much of an expert that you are on everything, I'll side with the "legal experts," unless you tell me that you are in fact a legal expert as well.

 

[Joker]

Krafty Bob was heard rockin' out to this tune as he drove by the Jupiter police station yesterday...Virulent Depravity...music for today's degenerate

 

[XLIX]

But according to reports that's not what happened, it is alluded that he made a traffic stop for the sole purpose of identifying Kraft, which is not allowed:

" A Jupiter police officer then pulled the Bentley over on a traffic stop and asked Kraft — the front-seat passenger — for identification.

The billionaire handed over his Massachusetts driver’s license. Legal experts suggest this traffic stop could be illegal because it appears to have been done on the pretext of a traffic violation, but — as the affidavit states — was in fact carried out to identify Kraft, who wasn’t driving the car."

Sorry Andy as much of an expert that you are on everything, I'll side with the "legal experts," unless you tell me that you are in fact a legal expert as well.

Except what did the so-called “legal experts” *really* say? It “could be” illegal. Ok sure. It “could be” illegal. It also “could be” completely legal and above board.

Furthermore, what do you even gain if you get the one traffic stop thrown out? The guy still went back the next day and, unless the prosecution is lying, they have that on tape too.

 

[venecol]

It does not matter if Kraft gets off on these misdemeanor charges. So argue all you like on all the what if’s you want. He is forever disgraced in public opinion and in the ranks of the NFL owners.
If he got out in front of this and played the honest and remorse route. Donated millions to Human Trafficing charities. Take his slap on the wrist. He may have righted the ship a bit. People would say “yeah he screwed up but he owned up to it and tried to make a wrong a right” “he was a stand up guy about it”
By hiring the billionaire Pedophile attorney and deny deny deny. He will probably have the charges dropped. But forever frowned upon. The billionaire perv that showed the whole country and women in general why rich men suck.

The level of your naivete is incredible. The NFL owners don't give a damn about this. In fact, all publicity is good publicity, as long as they spell your name right.

There are millions of people that don't believe Kraft has anything to be ashamed of, regardless of guilt, because he didn't do anything wrong!

You think that pretending to be remorseful (for what?) and take his slap on the wrist (is he a child or a man?) is going to make a difference?

F*ck that, this overzealous SA invaded people's privacy for political reasons, he needs to be challenged. This isn't about perception any more, what's done is done. Kraft doesn't believe he did anything wrong and I for one agree with him.

 

[Antdawg]

Except what did the so-called “legal experts” *really* say? It “could be” illegal. Ok sure. It “could be” illegal. It also “could be” completely legal and above board.

Furthermore, what do you even gain if you get the one traffic stop thrown out? The guy still went back the next day and, unless the prosecution is lying, they have that on tape too.

It's not a murder case. In other words, the courts have bigger fish to fry. A good lawyer, once irregularities are presented, can more easily get a non-violent, victimless misdemeanor charge like this dismissed. The stakes aren't nearly as high for the court, so they just toss the damn thing.

People who break the speed limit are more a risk to society and people get out of speeding tickets on technicalities all the time.

 

[Ring 6]

Because a false traffic stop is illegal and so is everything else that comes with it.

Pulling over a suspect of a crime is not illegal.

 

[Antdawg]

Pulling over a suspect of a crime is not illegal.

If he was a suspect, why wasn't he questioned or detained?

 

[Ring 6]

But according to reports that's not what happened, it is alluded that he made a traffic stop for the sole purpose of identifying Kraft, which is not allowed:

" A Jupiter police officer then pulled the Bentley over on a traffic stop and asked Kraft — the front-seat passenger — for identification.

The billionaire handed over his Massachusetts driver’s license. Legal experts suggest this traffic stop could be illegal because it appears to have been done on the pretext of a traffic violation, but — as the affidavit states — was in fact carried out to identify Kraft, who wasn’t driving the car."

Sorry Andy as much of an expert that you are on everything, I'll side with the "legal experts," unless you tell me that you are in fact a legal expert as well.

You are stuck on rhetoric.

As I said at the beginning of this someone using the phrase traffic stop does not mean he was pulled over for a traffic violation.

What part of APPEARS is so confusing to you.
You are reading an attorney with no knowledge of the actual events parsing words to try to find a possibility of a defense.
Surely you are smart enough to understand that.

Let’s put it this way.
If the police officer pulled the car over because of the suspicion that the passenger may have been involved in a crime that he was investigating under a legal warrant, that is perfectly legal.
Further if the police officer lies about the reason he pulled them over, making up a traffic violation to cover the fact that he was actually pulling them over to ID the passenger, he has still done nothing wrong.

Finally there is no legitimate reason to believe that was done, and common sense also dictates that it didn’t happen because why would you ask for the passengers id for a traffic violation

It’s not that complicated. Stop being so triggered and think for a minute.

 

[Ring 6]

If he was a suspect, why wasn't he questioned or detained?

Because he was pulled over to be identified since they knew he was in tape.
They did not know he was famous, so when they reviewed the tape and were ready to make an arrest it would be nice to gave find out who to arrest

If your argument is that he wasn’t a suspect then why did they pull him over and ask for his id?
Random time killing?

 

[XLIX]

It's not a murder case. In other words, the courts have bigger fish to fry. A good lawyer, once irregularities are presented, can more easily get a non-violent, victimless misdemeanor charge like this dismissed. The stakes aren't nearly as high for the court, so they just toss the damn thing.

The fact that the stakes are so low is a double-edged sword. Yes, sometimes the court/prosecution says this isn't worth the hassle so they throw it out. But sometimes the court/prosecution denies all the usual legal maneuverings that defense lawyers attempt and cut straight to the chase. The defense has much less opportunity to out-lawyer the prosecution.

You're right when you say it's not a murder case. As such, those so-called "irregularities" that you are desperately hoping exist tend not to get thrown out quite so easily. A judge isn't going to spend countless hours hearing arguments on whether or not the video evidence is admissible for a misdemeanor the way they would do so with a capital crime.

 

[XLIX]

If he was a suspect, why wasn't he questioned or detained?

What makes you so certain he wasn't?

 

[venecol]

Huh? People do it all the time.

Take out a loan against your home and you’re giving someone else the right to seize your property if you don’t pay.

Sign a lease with a tenant and in exchange for money you’re giving up a huge number of your rights over the property.

Bring your car to a mechanic and you’re giving someone else the right to take your car if you don’t pay.

Buy property in a HOA (or setting up an HOA) and you’re giving up various rights over your property.

An insurance company gives up its right in some of its property in return for the premium dollars you pay it.

There are a million million more examples.

Giving up rights in exchange for money or actions has been a crucial part of commerce for millennia.

I'm confused, are you saying the NFL owns Gillette and Kraft has a mortgage on it or is a tenant? Most of your examples entail one party owning something and the other paying to stay or buy it. The HOA one doesn't really apply because they would have to jump through a hell of a lot of hoops to get you out of your property, especially if a bank is involved.

Anyway, good luck to GOoDell as some of you have anointed him if he tries to keep Kraft out of his own stadium.

 

[mosi]

Because a false traffic stop is illegal and so is everything else that comes with it.

LOL. You must be a white male.

 

[VectorPrime]

Pretty sure the cops can just claim they thought they smelled weed across the parking lot from the direction of Kraft’s car and the Supreme Court will uphold the stop as legal.