Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[fourhour]

If the owner of the property signed a contract saying that the NFL commissioner has the authority to do that, then the NFL commissioner has the authority to do that.

Is that how the deal is done? Asking again for dialog. I'm a "Why" guy! Especially when it comes to property.

 

[Ring 6]

I really think the traffic stop ID stuff is a non starter. If a cop asks you for your ID and you didn't have to give it to them but you do anyways why would that be inadmissible? Even if it was under false pretenses. Cops can lie to you and it doesn't invalidate what they found.

And there was plenty of probably cause to ask for the ID.
Just because it’s being called a “traffic stop” doesn’t mean it has to involve a traffic violation.

 

[JJC]

They didn’t make anything up. They stopped him because they were investigating a place where they believed laws were being broken. That makes him a suspect.
You can pull over a vehicle for probably cause that isn’t a vehicular violation.

You might enjoy reading Sinclair Lewis' It Can't Happen Here and Hannah Arendt's Eichmann in Jerusalem and then reflecting on the issues of freedom, police powers, and individualism.

 

[Ivan]

The happy ending heard round the world.

 

[Tony2046]

Just because something is commonly known does not mean it’s universally known. I was surprised these gentlemen didn’t know, but they didn’t. The seedier side of life is unknown to some as they don’t live in it nor consume a lot of entertainment where it is more than prominently displayed.

Don’t you wonder why Kraft went back on Sunday after his interaction with the police the day before? Of course, arrogance is one possibility but so is innocence of the situation as strange as it is for many to believe.

Sorry Kenneth but that would be ignorance at the highest level to not know that paying for a sexual act is illegal in every state except one.

I believe that they told you that but I definitely do not believe them. It is most definitely universal knowledge.

Kraft knew what he was doing was illegal. I doubt he knew about whether the girls were sex slaves or not but in today's day and age it should be assumed a possibility with all the news and documentaries covering the subject over the last 30 years or so.

Long gone are the days of glorified Hollywood movies about whore house adventures ( losing it) and some willing prostitute popping some horny teenager's cherry. Since the 90's it has become increasingly known that many of these girls are sex slaves rather than willing participants.

Claiming ignorance on this matter in any court in America would be laughable. Imo.

Kraft gambled and lost. It's a damn shame.

To be clear I believe you but not your two buddies.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Is that how the deal is done? Asking again for dialog. I'm a "Why" guy! Especially when it comes to property.

To be part of the NFL an owner has to sign a bunch of contracts with the league which include agreeing to the terms of the NFL Constitution and Bylaws and a whole bunch of other stuff (including agreeing to not sue the league or other teams). The NFL Constitution and Bylaws say the Commissioner can do these things. And you, Mr. Owner, agreed to that with your eyes wide open and lots of high-priced lawyers by your side.

 

[fnordcircle]

You might enjoy reading Sinclair Lewis' It Can't Happen Here and Hannah Arendt's Eichmann in Jerusalem and then reflecting on the issues of freedom, police powers, and individualism.

Do we really need to go down this road? There's a difference between discussing the reality of the situation and endorsing it.

I'm hardly a fan of the US justice system, but it's far from the worst. I'm absolutely not a fan of the current US policing system but I'm not a socio-anarchist so I'd rather have a system that is far less than my ideal than no police at all.

 

[fourhour]

To be part of the NFL an owner has to sign a bunch of contracts with the league which include agreeing to the terms of the NFL Constitution and Bylaws and a whole bunch of other stuff (including agreeing to not sue the league or other teams). The NFL Constitution and Bylaws say the Commissioner can do these things. And you, Mr. Owner, agreed to that with your eyes wide open and lots of high-priced lawyers by your side.

Tough time grasping a property owner giving the right to ones property up.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

It does not matter if Kraft gets off on these misdemeanor charges. So argue all you like on all the what if’s you want. He is forever disgraced in public opinion and in the ranks of the NFL owners.
If he got out in front of this and played the honest and remorse route. Donated millions to Human Trafficing charities. Take his slap on the wrist. He may have righted the ship a bit. People would say “yeah he screwed up but he owned up to it and tried to make a wrong a right” “he was a stand up guy about it”
By hiring the billionaire Pedophile attorney and deny deny deny. He will probably have the charges dropped. But forever frowned upon. The billionaire perv that showed the whole country and women in general why rich men suck.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Tough time grasping a property owner giving the right to ones property up.

Huh? People do it all the time.

Take out a loan against your home and you’re giving someone else the right to seize your property if you don’t pay.

Sign a lease with a tenant and in exchange for money you’re giving up a huge number of your rights over the property.

Bring your car to a mechanic and you’re giving someone else the right to take your car if you don’t pay.

Buy property in a HOA (or setting up an HOA) and you’re giving up various rights over your property.

An insurance company gives up its right in some of its property in return for the premium dollars you pay it.

There are a million million more examples.

Giving up rights in exchange for money or actions has been a crucial part of commerce for millennia.

 

[Antdawg]

That Kraft kept his cool and maintained his innocence during the traffic stop by police could turn out being no small matter in this if he maintains his innocence. He also returned the very next morning after said traffic stop.

Imagine you've just left a place like this and you've done something you know could be illegal. You're immediately pulled over by the cops after you leave. Most people would be freaking out at that point, hence the many confessions the police extracted using similar pullover tactics on the other johns. Kraft did not and did not give any incriminating information during the traffic stop. Not only that, he returned to this place the very next morning. It's one thing to keep your mouth shut. It's another thing to go back to the same place the very next day.

I'm not saying he's innocent of the charge, but man, he is either off his rocker, extremely drunk or mentally unstable to get pulled over after leaving this place and return the next morning if he is guilty as charged.

 

[JJC]

Do we really need to go down this road? There's a difference between discussing the reality of the situation and endorsing it.

I'm hardly a fan of the US justice system, but it's far from the worst. I'm absolutely not a fan of the current US policing system but I'm not a socio-anarchist so I'd rather have a system that is far less than my ideal than no police at all.

I am not advocating for an "anarcho-syndicalist commune" or a Hobbesian state of nature in which life is nasty, brutish, and short.

I am simply noting that it's in the pendulum swing of freedom, we are heading in the wrong direction. The powers of the state have grown markedly in my lifetime and the technology available to monitor every crevice of people's lives has invaded our privacy to the point where none of us is "Free". I am sure that each one of us breaks dozens of laws each day in happy oblivion (some bureaucratic rule we never knew about) or complete disregard (speed limits?).

Freedom is an unnatural state of affairs in human history - it's inherently unstable and there is never a shortage of people who want to limit it. I am always in favor of the individual fighting tooth and nail against the state to keep the power imbalance in check, before it sinks us all. I know, it sounds crazy and extreme to lots of people - but if you know people who grew up in totalitarian environments and hear their stories, it makes sense. We have something special here and we lack sufficient care to keep it.

And for the record, BK sounds guilty of what he has been accused and the process will sort that all out. It also sounds like LE overreached in their conduct and I want that to come out into the sunlight, if true, as well. There do not appear to be any angels in this story - just horribly flawed human beings.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

How Patriots Owner Robert Kraft Could Get Off in Prostitution Case

 

[Antdawg]

That’s what makes this move by Kraft so ****ing dumb. It’s over, his reputation is tarnished and he’ll be punished by the league. The only way to regain peoples respect is to accept responsibility and ask for forgiveness not leverage your billions to try and get out of a MISDEMEANOR by legal technicalities. That just drags it all out and makes it all the more embarrassing.

Totally disagree. If Kraft manages to get these charges dropped, that gives Goodell and the other owners a lot less to work with in terms of penalties.

And it would seem like the argument you're making is that Kraft should just plead guilty and say "yeah, I did it" and the league would go easier on him. Please tell me that's not the argument you're making. As far as embarrassment goes, if Kraft is willing to endure it, then who cares? But if you think a guilty plea gets him leniency with the league, you're dreaming.

 

[jimnance]

How Patriots Owner Robert Kraft Could Get Off in Prostitution Case

Didn't he ALREADY get off ?

 

[VectorPrime]

Totally disagree. If Kraft manages to get these charges dropped, that gives Goodell and the other owners a lot less to work with in terms of penalties.

And it would seem like the argument you're making is that Kraft should just plead guilty and say "yeah, I did it" and the league would go easier on him. Please tell me that's not the argument you're making. As far as embarrassment goes, if Kraft is willing to endure it, then who cares? But if you think a guilty plea gets him leniency with the league, you're dreaming.

Literally nothing will change regarding his penalty from the league. I don’t give a **** about that he can be banned for a year for all I care. What I care about is if he lawyers up and fights this misdemeanor it just drags this embarrassing episode out and drags the reputation of the team and it’s players through the mud as well AND the fans have to deal with this too.

Also it’s ironic that he told Brady to bend over and take it like a man for something that didn’t deserve to be punished so severely and yet he’s willing to go to the mat over this.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Didn't he ALREADY get off ?

You beat me to that punch. Great headline...lol.

Breaking: Kraft gets off in Asian massage parlor (case)

 

[Antdawg]

Literally nothing will change regarding his penalty from the league. I don’t give a **** about that he can be banned for a year for all I care. What I care about is if he lawyers up and fights this misdemeanor it just drags this embarrassing episode out and drags the reputation of the team and it’s players through the mud as well AND the fans have to deal with this too.

Also it’s ironic that he told Brady to bend over and take it like a man for something that didn’t deserve to be punished so severely and yet he’s willing to go to the mat over this.

Is that what this is about, Deflategate?

I don't want to get off track here, but Kraft DID let Brady fight Deflategate and when it became abundantly apparent that the league wasn't backing down, Kraft (and I'm sure he wasn't alone) wanted to move on. Turned out pretty well too. Brady's 5th and possibly his best season ever. It didn't exactly tear down the team.

When the league spends $2.5 million to bury Kraft over this massage parlor thing, get back to me. You're comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Triumph]

One plus about Kraft fighting this is that Goodell cant take a draft pick with the case pending.

 

[Triumph]

Miss Lei Wang gave Kraft a massage.

She found her calling.