Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[supafly]

You just made my point.

Still not sure that Kraft would’ve been punished if he had been going to a legal brothel in Nevada. He may have received a call to knock it off, but it wouldn’t have been a fraction of the story that it is right now.

If he had been suspended, it would have been for a very small period of time, and even then, I’m not one hundred percent sure that he’d have been in trouble with the league. Players go to strip clubs all of the time and no one bats an eye.

 

[supafly]

Question: how many adult posters here have been pulled over for a traffic violation and the cop demanded ID from everyone in the car?

Kraft's lawyer: Officer how many John's who just left The Orchid did you pull over for traffic violations on Saturday? Nine you say? Would you call this high number simply a coincidence ....all for the same violation.....all exiting from the same parking lot while you happened to be staking out The Orchid.....and you never issued any tickets....but happened to write down every passengers information for your records? Just a coincidence?
How many men who exited the Orchid that morning didn't happen to have a traffic violation and didn't have every ID of every passenger confiscated for your inspection?

Suspicious activity/reasonable suspicion
=
Cops best friend

 

[Deus Irae]

Suspicious activity/reasonable suspicion
=
Cops best friend

Just a note on this, and the note may or may not be important in this case, depending on the entirety of the facts:

The mere act of patronizing a legal business that is under investigation is not suspicious activity/reasonable suspicion.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Just a note on this, and the note may or may not be important in this case, depending on the entirety of the facts:

The mere act of patronizing a legal business that is under investigation is not suspicious activity/reasonable suspicion.

From the description of the videos, a cop was watching what was going on, live. So that cop's buddy probably got the heads up to find out who this old guy is that just got a little more than the establishment's advertised legal services.

 

[venecol]

All of the time cops follow cars that they are suspicious about, looking for a rolled stop sign, an improper lane change, going 5 mph over the limit, etc.

If the driver doesn't screw up, then he won't be stopped. If he does screw up, then the door is open for the cops to ask what they want to ask, including asking for IDs of non-drivers.

It is up to the citizens to know that they can refuse. The cop can demand to see license and registration of the driver. The cop can inquire about sobriety. If the cop asks for anything more, then the citizen needs to ask to see their warrant.

Come on man, cops are known for stopping people all the time for made up stuff to justify the stop to go on fishing expeditions. I'm sure you've heard of racial profiling, it does exist, its not a made up or fake thing. Nvm, not trying to derail the thread over this, I know how sensitive some guys are about this.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

The problem with asking for Kraft's ID is that he was not the driver of the vehicle. So if you stop vehicle for some imagined traffic violation, why do you need to check the ID of the passenger?

Like I've said in prior posts, this case will unravel as it goes forward. Too many leaps of logic and not enough actual facts. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the warrant to install the cameras is eventual found by an appealate court to be unwarranted, and then the entire case falls apart (fruit from the poisonous tree doctrine). The problem with arresting the rich, is that they hire lawyers that are much better then the gov ones. Just ask OJ.

 

[venecol]

We wanted Brady to fight his punishment because whether he did anything or not it was a vast overreach on the commissioners part to punish him as he did. And at the end of the day what Brady was accused of doing wasn’t a crime or morally wrong.

Krafts mess is NOTHING like this. Why the hell does anyone want him to actually fight this? It’s embarrassing. His only chance to “win” is through legal chicanery that won’t change public perception nor the leagues punishment.

"Legal chicanery?" Boy I wonder what you would do when facing a year in jail, go to prosecutor and say: look dude I'm guilt as sin but please don't throw me in jail if I confess, what say you? Lmao.

 

[venecol]

Why would he have to make up a reason when he had a warrant to stake out a prostitution house and saw kraft leave it?
That is probable cause. I’m not sure why people think stopping a vehicle requires a traffic violation.
If a wanted criminal pulls up next to a cop
at a stop light and he IDs him I’m pretty sure he doesn’t have to wait until he breaks a traffic law to pull him over.

That's hilarious, so cop sees a wanted or known criminal, pulls him over, asks for his Id and then let's him go? What are you smoking?

 

[Deus Irae]

From the description of the videos, a cop was watching what was going on, live. So that cop's buddy probably got the heads up to find out who this old guy is that just got a little more than the establishment's advertised legal services.

I could repeat what I said, but it would obviously be a waste of time. So, I'll just add that tossing in a pretext stop doesn't automatically cure the defect.

 

[fnordcircle]

I really think the traffic stop ID stuff is a non starter. If a cop asks you for your ID and you didn't have to give it to them but you do anyways why would that be inadmissible? Even if it was under false pretenses. Cops can lie to you and it doesn't invalidate what they found.

 

[rochrist]

Why would he have to make up a reason when he had a warrant to stake out a prostitution house and saw kraft leave it?
That is probable cause. I’m not sure why people think stopping a vehicle requires a traffic violation.
If a wanted criminal pulls up next to a cop
at a stop light and he IDs him I’m pretty sure he doesn’t have to wait until he breaks a traffic law to pull him over.

I was only quarreling with the notion (not from you) that they were following him waiting for a traffic violation and if there wasn't one, they wouldn't pull him over. Which is complete nonsense.

 

[supafly]

Just a note on this, and the note may or may not be important in this case, depending on the entirety of the facts:

The mere act of patronizing a legal business that is under investigation is not suspicious activity/reasonable suspicion.

I’ve seen and heard plenty of stories where they make up their own cause to stop, and no one can prove them wrong. Of course, they aren’t normally dealing with the likes of Bob Kraft and his attorneys, so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Antdawg]

That's hilarious, so cop sees a wanted or known criminal, pulls him over, asks for his Id and then let's him go? What are you smoking?

Checkmate.

 

[h0c2000]

Pleaded not guilty...with the right Lawyer, this is a winnable case.

Did someone say call a Lawyer?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Does any of this matter? We’re talking about a legal misdemeanor, a nothingburger. Kraft is already guilty according to the NFL’s standards, and unlike Deflategate, it appears the league is going to get it right this time. Unless his attorneys prove that he was forced at gunpoint into this place, it’s all over.

 

[Ring 6]

That's hilarious, so cop sees a wanted or known criminal, pulls him over, asks for his Id and then let's him go? What are you smoking?

Huh?
Where in the world do you get that from?

My god can you not understand that showing an example to refute that you can only pull someone over for a traffic infraction does not mean that everybody ever pulled over are all in the same situation?
Dude think a little.

 

[VectorPrime]

Does any of this matter? We’re talking about a legal misdemeanor, a nothingburger. Kraft is already guilty according to the NFL’s standards, and unlike Deflategate, it appears the league is going to get it right this time. Unless his attorneys prove that he was forced at gunpoint into this place, it’s all over.

That’s what makes this move by Kraft so ****ing dumb. It’s over, his reputation is tarnished and he’ll be punished by the league. The only way to regain peoples respect is to accept responsibility and ask for forgiveness not leverage your billions to try and get out of a MISDEMEANOR by legal technicalities. That just drags it all out and makes it all the more embarrassing.

 

[Ring 6]

I was only quarreling with the notion (not from you) that they were following him waiting for a traffic violation and if there wasn't one, they wouldn't pull him over. Which is complete nonsense.

Agreed. My point was people were suggesting that it was phony because the cop must have invented a traffic violation.
Clearly identifying the man leaving the scene of a potential crime is reason enough.

 

[Ring 6]

That’s what makes this move by Kraft so ****ing dumb. It’s over, his reputation is tarnished and he’ll be punished by the league. The only way to regain peoples respect is to accept responsibility and ask for forgiveness not leverage your billions to try and get out of a MISDEMEANOR by legal technicalities. That just drags it all out and makes it all the more embarrassing.

Why would admitting to the thing that caused your reputation to be tarnished be the only way to get it back. That makes no sense.
His reputation is tarnished because he when to a massage parlor hooker. Admitting it cements the reputation.
There may be some people out there that are gullible enough to believe that getting caught then acting contrite makes everything ok like it never happened but they are few and far between.
There are many more who want to deny he would do that it must have an explanation, excuse or reason and he can salvage his reputation with them by acting offended by the charges.

 

[Tunescribe]

What an embarrassment Kraft is.

What an embarrassment YOU are. Shouldn't you be more worried about the embarrassment named Woody Johnson?