Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

When have I ever said I thought the videos should be released publicly?

But you are mixing up the laws.
Sunshine laws are about the public’s right to information. They have nothing to do with the crime that was committed, guilt, innocence or the severity of the crime.

Law enforcement isn’t releasing the video as a punishment. An entity (media) is requesting access to the tape.
It literally has nothing to do with the punishment for a finding of guilt, so the cruel and unusual punishment issue doesnt apply.

I think the exceptions to the sunshineaws should include disgusting material

I also do not buy into the idea that it would unfairly “ruin the lives” of the perps. They chose to do it. Publicizing the crime they committed is not ruining their lives. If their lives are ruined it was by committing a crime that if it were to become known their lives would be ruined.

And again my preference would be that the sunshine laws had an exception for the disgusting.

I didn't infer that you thought the videos should be released publicly. I just wanted to get your take on the Sunshine laws in general, especially in light of this case.

Because I think a lot of the problem is that Kraft may have been okay just taking his medicine and admitting he's wrong, but these, in my opinion, rather absurd Sunshine laws make the punishment incredibly disproportionate to the crime. I believe that people should be entitled to privacy rights (such as the right to privacy during lewd acts in places that are through to be private) even if the surveillance is legal in actually catching and convicting them. This is a misdemeanor crime and arguably a non-violent crime (let's not turn this into a debate about this, as it's just a minor point here). I think that the State of Florida is really messed up if they're going to secretly surveil someone in a private setting and then release a videotape of them engaged in very private, intimate, disgusting, acts. Just my opinion on this. I wonder if Kraft would have just pled guilty and apologized if it weren't for the video angle.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I wonder if Kraft would have just pled guilty and apologized if it weren't for the video angle.

I think it's all about the video ... he will get a worse league punishment, the public shame and his philanthropy will suffer ... the video will take a huge toll IMO.

 

[Joker]

how much more of a toll can it take given the toll that has already been exacted? I mean, 200 pages ago he was branded with the scarlet letters HT...it's been blabbed nationwide like gospel from on high. Damage done. The fallout will only come from KNOWN media racist morons like Slob Parker & Screamin' Azzolle Shmiff, post decision and then it will just sit out there like a scabbed over sore waiting for some future nimrod to blabber out in the media "human trafficking!!!!" just like these idiots STILL persist with the sub-moronic "what about Brady's phone!!! some guy said "deflater!" nine months earlier!!". Krist, you got complete and utter MORONS like Rich Keefe vomiting this crap up at the drop of a hat. What makes you think he and his ilk will ever let the Kraft transgression go? They'll pull it out whenever they need a bump in ratings because the "human trafficking!!!!" meme has been established as fact in the brains of the knee jerk public.

 

[PatriotsReign]

You don't know what the f**k you are talking about

No need to get emotional.

 

[PatriotsReign]

how much more of a toll can it take given the toll that has already been exacted? I mean, 200 pages ago he was branded with the scarlet letters HT...it's been blabbed nationwide like gospel from on high. Damage done. The fallout will only come from KNOWN media racist morons like Slob Parker & Screamin' Azzolle Shmiff, post decision and then it will just sit out there like a scabbed over sore waiting for some future nimrod to blabber out in the media "human trafficking!!!!" just like these idiots STILL persist with the sub-moronic "what about Brady's phone!!! some guy said "deflater!" nine months earlier!!". Krist, you got complete and utter MORONS like Rich Keefe vomiting this crap up at the drop of a hat. What makes you think he and his ilk will ever let the Kraft transgression go? They'll pull it out whenever they need a bump in ratings because the "human trafficking!!!!" meme has been established as fact in the brains of the knee jerk public.

What sucks about our society today is we have people that will say the same thing over and over again despite the fact it’s not true....yet they’re all convinced it is true.

Robert Kraft and the other 30 men arrested had zero to do with human trafficking...FACT AND NOTHING BUT FACT

 

[cmasspatsfan]

There is no such thing in the law as being "considered innocent."

I don't care if he gets off on a technicality. Unless something astounding comes out like they are lying about the contents of the video (highly doubtful given the nature of this case) then he did it. Anyone saying anything else just has their heads in the sand, no matter what the verdict.

I don't think there's a soul on this board that doesn't think he's guilty of the act(s), its turned into a debate of did the Florida police act accordingly within the laws and turn a misdemeanor into a mountain.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Robert Kraft won't take diversion deal in sex spa case, at least not now

"Attorneys for Kraft plan to ignore Friday’s deadline set by a Florida prosecutor’s office to accept a pre-trial diversion program related to soliciting prostitution charges, two people with knowledge of the discussions told USA TODAY Sports."

"There has been ongoing dialogue between Kraft’s legal team and Florida state attorney Dave Aronberg’s office since Kraft was charged in February on two misdemeanor solicitation charges, according to the two people, who were granted anonymity because the discussions are private."

 

[IcyPatriot]

So here's the rub:

"He (Aronberg) has to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt," former assistant U.S. Attorney David S. Weinstein told USA TODAY Sports. "If the video evidence is thrown out and a detective has to testify to what he saw (from outside the spa), you're missing what (Kraft) gave the woman (in the spa) money."

Robert Kraft won't take diversion deal in sex spa case, at least not now

 

[Ring 6]

I didn't infer that you thought the videos should be released publicly. I just wanted to get your take on the Sunshine laws in general, especially in light of this case.

Because I think a lot of the problem is that Kraft may have been okay just taking his medicine and admitting he's wrong, but these, in my opinion, rather absurd Sunshine laws make the punishment incredibly disproportionate to the crime. I believe that people should be entitled to privacy rights (such as the right to privacy during lewd acts in places that are through to be private) even if the surveillance is legal in actually catching and convicting them. This is a misdemeanor crime and arguably a non-violent crime (let's not turn this into a debate about this, as it's just a minor point here). I think that the State of Florida is really messed up if they're going to secretly surveil someone in a private setting and then release a videotape of them engaged in very private, intimate, disgusting, acts. Just my opinion on this. I wonder if Kraft would have just pled guilty and apologized if it weren't for the video angle.

But sunshine laws are not punishment for a crime. They create a consequence for committing an embarrassing crime.
The judge is not going pass a sentence of releasing the video.
A different judge (or same judge in an entirely different case) will rule on requests under sunshine law for access to the video.

Sunshine laws are about freedom of the press not sentencing.
You have to be careful when applying sunshine laws to only this case because their intent and application is much more far reaching than whether they will embarrass a guy caught on tape getting a hand job.

I tend to lean toward the value of freedom of the press more than worrying about how embarrassing it would be for someone to have something embarrassing and illegal that they willingly did being made public.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I tend to lean toward the value of freedom of the press more than worrying about how embarrassing it would be for someone to have something embarrassing and illegal that they willingly did being made public.

I agree and let's face it a wealthy defendant gains an advantage over a poor defendant if that were not the case and that would be wrong - justice should be equal - even though we know it isn't always that way.

 

[PatriotsReign]

I agree and let's face it a wealthy defendant gains an advantage over a poor defendant if that were not the case and that would be wrong - justice should be equal - even though we know it isn't always that way.

No one could do anything with the tape anyway. No media outlet is going to show what happened

I am strongly against the current public shaming trend. Especially when someone doesn’t even break a law (not referring to Kraft)

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I agree and let's face it a wealthy defendant gains an advantage over a poor defendant if that were not the case and that would be wrong - justice should be equal - even though we know it isn't always that way.

Is there some problem with adding a small exception to the Sunshine law like

“any media - such as videos or photos - of disrobed/naked law offenders who aren’t aware they’re being taped...if the crime is considered non-violent and not part of a felony...shall be kept under seal for purposes of decency and reasonable privacy privledges, though a writen description shall be provided.”

???

 

[IcyPatriot]

Is there some problem with adding a small exception to the Sunshine law like

“any media - such as videos or photos - of disrobed/naked law offenders who aren’t aware they’re being taped...if the crime is considered non-violent and not part of a felony...shall be kept under seal for purposes of decency and reasonable privacy privledges, though a writen description shall be provided.”

???

Would that be a deterrant?

 

[Ring 6]

I agree and let's face it a wealthy defendant gains an advantage over a poor defendant if that were not the case and that would be wrong - justice should be equal - even though we know it isn't always that way.

But that’s not realistic. The system does everything it can. The difference isn’t that poor people don’t get representation it’s that with money you can afford better representation just like you can afford better cars and houses. It’s unrealistic to expect different than that.

 

[IcyPatriot]

On a side note they busted one in Providence RI today ...
several in Pawtucket RI a few weeks ago.

Seems there's an emphasis going on right now.

 

[Ring 6]

No one could do anything with the tape anyway. No media outlet is going to show what happened

I am strongly against the current public shaming trend. Especially when someone doesn’t even break a law (not referring to Kraft)

May not be what you are referring to but I scratch my head at celebrities (and politicians )who post things on social media to draw attention to themselves then complain when people give them a hard time.
Some singer recently posted a picture of her son who had pulled off his bathing suit. When people criticized her for it she attacked the people for being demented for noticing the boy was naked.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Would that be a deterrant?

Appropriate for a non-violent misdemeanor??

 

[PatriotsReign]

May not be what you are referring to but I scratch my head at celebrities (and politicians )who post things on social media to draw attention to themselves then complain when people give them a hard time.
Some singer recently posted a picture of her son who had pulled off his bathing suit. When people criticized her for it she attacked the people for being demented for noticing the boy was naked.

I agree 100%! Too many people narrate their frikkn lives on social media. Too the point it’s obvious to everyone but them that they’re screaming for attention, sympathy & acceptance.

 

[IcyPatriot]

But that’s not realistic. The system does everything it can. The difference isn’t that poor people don’t get representation it’s that with money you can afford better representation just like you can afford better cars and houses. It’s unrealistic to expect different than that.

The system does not do everything it can but that's an entire other topic.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Appropriate for a non-violent misdemeanor??

Probably not but how does one pick and choose freedom of the press in that state?