Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[Ring 6]

The system does not do everything it can but that's an entire other topic.

Everyone gets representation.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I think a lot of people who are hell bent on having prostitution sex tapes released to the public are full of crap claiming freedom of press. Instead I think they believ it's some form of justice or punishment

 

[IcyPatriot]

Everyone gets representation.

... and rich lawyers can sometimes get favorite treatment via back room deals.
That is apparently not happening right now in Florida so good for them.

 

[Ring 6]

Is there some problem with adding a small exception to the Sunshine law like

“any media - such as videos or photos - of disrobed/naked law offenders who aren’t aware they’re being taped...if the crime is considered non-violent and not part of a felony...shall be kept under seal for purposes of decency and reasonable privacy privledges, though a writen description shall be provided.”

???

There are exceptions. I think what you are missing is that the exceptions are not to protect perpetrators against embarrassment, nor should there be.

If you add an exception for “your cause” you set a precedent and before long almost everything is an exception.

 

[Ring 6]

... and rich lawyers can sometimes get favorite treatment via back room deals.
That is apparently not happening right now in Florida so good for them.

But the system can’t do anything about that. It’s life, if you work hard, and gain wealthy (or your ancestors did it for you) you can use that wealth to your benefit.

 

[IcyPatriot]

But the system can’t do anything about that. It’s life, if you work hard, and gain wealthy (or your ancestors did it for you) you can use that wealth to your benefit.

Sorry Andy - I cannot agree that is right.
I think the system must always try to the best of their ability to strive for fair adjudication.

 

[Ring 6]

Sorry Andy - I cannot agree that is right.
I think the system must always try to the best of their ability to strive for fair adjudication.

And I think that it does. How do you suppose the system could make all attorneys equally capable?

 

[Joker]

"with liberty and justice for all"...not "he who dies with the most toys wins" ...kripesakes, what the hell has gone wrong in this country?

 

[IcyPatriot]

And I think that it does. How do you suppose the system could make all attorneys equally capable?

You're going off in a way different direction here ...
The system obviously cannot do that but wealthy clients attorneys can game the system.
I think in this case they will go the extra mile to see that Kraft gains no advantage ...
That could hurt him and the gaming of the system may be on the state's side here.

I won't repeat what some have already stated in that the case may not be within the law.

 

[Ring 6]

You're going off in a way different direction here ...
The system obviously cannot do that but wealthy clients attorneys can game the system.
I think in this case they will go the extra mile to see that Kraft gains no advantage ...
That could hurt him and the gaming of the system may be on the state's side here.

I’m attributing the differences to the quality of attorney.
Kraft wouldn’t get better representation than an indigent person if he used a public defender.
And the indigent person would get the same representation as kraft if his attorneys repped him also.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

There are exceptions. I think what you are missing is that the exceptions are not to protect perpetrators against embarrassment, nor should there be.

If you add an exception for “your cause” you set a precedent and before long almost everything is an exception.

No, I’d say nudity is really the only huge exception out there. People’s rights to privacy of their own bodies are void if they commit a non-violent misdemeanor where they are voluntarily naked but surveiled unbeknownst to them? Seems ridiculous. Florida apparently is filled with voyeuristic freaks.

 

[Ring 6]

No, I’d say nudity is really the only huge exception out there. People’s rights to privacy of their own bodies are void if they commit a non-violent misdemeanor where they are naked unbeknownst to them? Seems ridiculous. Florida apparently is filled with voyeuristic freaks.

Again, you are looking at this backward.
It’s not a voyeuristic right to see seedy things.
It’s a freedom of the press, right to have access to government documents, investigation and materials. The exceptions are cases where you say it’s ok for the government to hide these materials.
You are trampling on an awful lot of rights in attacking these type of laws for the sake of protecting the privacy of someone who knowingly committed a crime.
You understand that sunshine laws don’t require a public showing of distasteful material right? You realize they espn, for example, once they receive the take from a sunshine request, are still subject to broadcasting laws that would prohibit them from showing nudity or sex acts, right?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It’s a freedom of the press, right to have access to government documents, investigation and materials. The exceptions are cases where you say it’s ok for the government to hide these materials.
You are trampling on an awful lot of rights in attacking these type of laws for the sake of protecting the privacy of someone who knowingly committed a crime.

That’s all up for debate. The degree to which the freedom of the press is “entitled” to this information, and what information they aren’t entitled to, is the entire talking point here and wthat I’m saying Florida is extreme on, and I find it distasteful and I believe is a poor interpretation of basic tenets of freedom and privacy.

Not everything in an investigation is an obvious “right of the press” or “right of public information.” Rights often conflict and it’s messy.

Record sealing - Wikipedia

It sounds like you are correct when it comes to Florida’s Sunshine laws. That doesn’t mean everyone needs to embrace these laws and shouldn’t challenge/criticize them.

 

[Ring 6]

My point is that you have to consider the ramifications of what change you are calling for. Our society has become people griping about every little things as if there is a standard of perfection and no law or policy should ever have a negative impact in anyone.
That’s just not realistic.
If the governor of Florida were being investigated for being a pedophile and his attorney general decided not to pursue charges despite a general belief there was evidence would you be happy if sunshine laws were as weak as you want them to be for kraft?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This is where your argument goes off the rails.
You are in favor of releasing information in a case where no charges were going relevant, yet don’t where they are. You either support government information being made public or you don’t.
You are deciding the issue of freedom of the press based upon anything but freedom of the press.
So let’s say they blur out krafts genitals. Now you are fine with it?

The description and public record comes from the government. The point of sunshine laws is to see for yourself. You have now said “trust the government we don’t need to see”.

That’s one heck of a round hole, square peg even for you.

Gotta get some sleep.

Hope your back is getting better.

Peace.

 

[Joker]

It’s called an analogy.

yes, an extremely flawed one

 

[DarrylS]

If the information received by the police, thus considered illegal, can that be shared?? Consider the ramifications of something like that.. what is the difference of filming women in dressing rooms to watch for shoplifters??

IIMO the police knew better from the onset, and they appeared to have fabricated or embellished the information when obtaining the warrant.. not sure if the underlying intent was to wait for "bigger fish" or purely for entertainment value, whatever the reason that information should be destroyed and not made public. The police knew there was sufficient evidence of law breaking in November, why wait??

Do not see any comparison here to Federal Investigations done under the auspices of the law monitored by applicable courts... completely different species..

 

[PatriotsReign]

I think a lot of people who are hell bent on having prostitution sex tapes released to the public are full of crap claiming freedom of press. Instead I think they believ it's some form of justice or punishment

Especially for those that have a grudge against wealthy people. For most of these types, it something deep down against the anonymous bad guys “The Wealthy”. In cases like this, many finally get their feeling of revenge and can put a face to it

Look how many posting here act as if Kraft is the only one when he’s one of 30. Personally, I see him as myself. I’ve never paid for sex in my 60 years, but I can understand it.

I don’t see Kraft as a victim, but I see him as a lost soul since his wife died. Why else would he hang out with a bunch of young people as if he’s one of them? Maybe his fear of death has been overwhelming him as he approaches 80.

I’m glad I grew up with very little. Whenever I buy a powerball ticket, the thought of winning both excites and scares the hell out of me.

I don’t want to get lost like Kraft

 

[PatsWSB47]

Yep, let the videos of Andy's pedo Governor example be made public so he gets to see videos of misdemeanor crimes too. That's an off the rails argument. I hesitate to even argue this because now we're going to get more blah, blah, blah

 

[PatriotsReign]

If the information received by the police, thus considered illegal, can that be shared?? Consider the ramifications of something like that.. what is the difference of filming women in dressing rooms to watch for shoplifters??

IIMO the police knew better from the onset, and they appeared to have fabricated or embellished the information when obtaining the warrant.. not sure if the underlying intent was to wait for "bigger fish" or purely for entertainment value, whatever the reason that information should be destroyed and not made public. The police knew there was sufficient evidence of law breaking in November, why wait??

Do not see any comparison here to Federal Investigations done under the auspices of the law monitored by applicable courts... completely different species..

I wonder if they saw expensive cars going in and out and figured they’d bag some rich guys