Key question: Has the destruction of the dynasty begun?

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IndyKen

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
That's fine - let them all think that. I feel wonderful about the make up of this team right now, esp with the addition of another vet LB, which I'm sure Beoli will make happen sometime later this spring or early summer.
 

BionicPatriot

In the Starting Line-Up
What a dumbass article. First off, he needs to realize something. That dallas team was all about one thing. Insane talent. They had a VERY good, (not great ebcause of his lackluster Dolphin run) coach in Johnson, and gave him talent. How could a coach not win with that? They then replaced him with Switzer...A freaking college coach.

Now, last time I check..Belichick is still here. Brady is still young, Seymour is still young, and under contract. The majority of the defense is young, all except the LB core which is still a very solid unit. Please, because we have question marks at K, WR, and LB we're doomed? You tell me one team this year that does not have questions marks.

Tell me ANY team the past 10 years that has had no question marks! Exactly, you can't. I'm so sick of hearing this FA bull****. The Patriots have had key losses to FA? So has every freaking team! Second, how many times must I hear this? I think after reporting it for years, and BB handling it, it's pretty clear Belichick knows what the hell he is doing when it comes to realeasing someone or signing them.
 

PatsFanInVa

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JoeSixPat said:
It took awhile for the old/new CBA to have its full effect in the 1990s

The destruction of the Dallas dynasty was the result of the organization unprepared and unable to meet the challenge of the CBA and FA.

Today it is recognized that the nature of modern football is that a team will lose free agents. The Patriots organization recognizes this and continually restocks and retools, attempting to plan years ahead - not months.

There is no team better equipped to thrive in this environment than the Patriots.

Citing the loss of free agents as a sign of the end of a dynasty suggests that the author just doesn't understand modern football.

:ditto: :agree: :beersign:

Bingo, as they say around here.

I do see weaknesses on this team - I see a lot of areas with untested potential, a lot of areas that should only get better, and some areas where you just must plain old assume we do NOT get better. Personally, I think we get better at kicker (in the cold light of day.) Linebacker? Of course not. What are you smoking? At LB, it's a matter of how much of a hit we take. The secondary? A lot depends on Rodney, but a young group SHOULD project to be on the way up (for a lot of years! WOO HOO!). Of course, there is the Geno counterexample to think about.

But the big point is right on. The youth movement in Foxboro is not a random swapout of unknowns for superstars. It's the replacement of some fantastic, lunch-pail type guys, with the next generation of same. This is a very different notion from the "irreplaceable" Aikman/Irvin/Smith/and company model. (Our Irvin "equivalent" does not even exist, and our "Smith" was not here when we started the run of SBs, and figures to have an able heir in Maroney.)

It hurts to say sometimes, but we really cannot crow about having too many "best in the leagues." Brady and Seymour, period. But we've had the best team in the league three years in the last five. And that's going to continue.

PFnV
 

Box_O_Rocks

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PatsFanInVa said:
The secondary? A lot depends on Rodney, but a young group SHOULD project to be on the way up (for a lot of years! WOO HOO!). Of course, there is the Geno counterexample to think about.

But the big point is right on. The youth movement in Foxboro is not a random swapout of unknowns for superstars. It's the replacement of some fantastic, lunch-pail type guys, with the next generation of same.

PFnV
Don't be too cynical about Geno, plenty of guys thrust into leadership roles struggle. You go from focusing on your own job to being forced to drop your shovel, go try to find the words to kick start another guy, then come back and still dig your share - it is a major adjustment. He had a painful learning experience, but I think he did learn from it and will develop into a good secondary field-coach like Rodney and Artrell.

Your youth movement summation is excellent....:rocker:
 
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PatsFanInVa

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Geno

The thrust of my Geno comment came out way more cynical than intended. I meant that we WANT the beauty of "only going to get better" upside, but there is the possibility that we see a dip this year on any given front (as happened with Geno - for whatever reason.)

I don't think his 04 was a fluke - but I do like to check my enthusiasm with this sort of realization from time to time.

Tremendous potential here - but also the potential to lay an egg or two. I feel very good though, that laying an egg in Foxboro gets you 10-6, or 9-7 in a REALLY bad year like 02.

PFnV
 

Bill's Girl

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
BelichickFan said:
As long as we have Bill and Tommy, everything should be fine IMO. I think Bill can do what he needs to with other positions but you can't manufacture a great QB. Tommy was like a gift from God to Belichick.

Amen BF!!! I would think that winning 3 out of 5 Super Bowls would show that BB and the boys structure this team to roll forward competitively year after year, unlike Baltimore and Tampa Bay who loaded up to win once!
 

patsfan13

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This question was being asked on A Steeler board I follow. They think the Pats are in decline and aren't really the team they have to beat to repeat This was a respone that reflects a wuick and dirty opinion of the roster at this point.



Perhaps the Pats are on a down slide, it will happen sometime, maybe now. My rose dolored glasses think that the Pats (barring another deluge of injuries) will be back as good as ever this year.

I'll reference the roster relative to the last SB roster. On the D:

The OL is the same group, with the exception of the backup NT (Wright, Thomas or Smith in place of Traylor) The oldest player in this group is Jarvis Green at 27 yrs old (Seymour will be 27 next Oct). I would stack this DL up against any on football, it has experence and all the players are just coming into their prime.

At LB There are soem changes. Bruschi, Colvin and Vrabel remain as starters. Ted Johnson, Roman Phifer and Willie Mc Ginest are gone from this group (Chatham is also gone but he was a ST player and not in the LB rotation. Phifer is retired, and Willie is 36 now, and would have been a backup behind Colvin and Vrabel. The replacements for Phifer & Johnson figure to be Beisel, who struggled big time at the beginning of last year, Ryan Claridge (2nd year player who was on IR last year) and Eric Alexander (3rd year out of LSU). Tully Banta Cain will be the backup at OLB, he saw a lot of action last year. Izzo and D Davis will continue as LB who are on the roster for ST's. Rookies Mincey (draftee from FL DE to OLB conversion) and Freddie Roach (ILB Ala run stuffer) will try to create a position for themselves on the roster. R Harrison said this offseason that Claridge will be an impact player this year, Beisel has added 10 lbs. This group has to be considered weaker than the last few years until someone shows they will step up. I would note that LB hasn't seemed to be a big prioritythis off season. I was suprised by this. Apparently BB/SP feel they have the talent in place to do the job. This will be area to watch in training camp and pre season.

That leads us to the much maligned Patriots secondary. The national perception is that this unit is awful, and at times last year they were. I would note that 7 of the 11 palyers who left training camp as DB ended up on IR by the 4-5th week of the season, that is an astounding # of injuries to 1 unit. Anyway, the team has back the 2 starting CB's from the last SB, Asante Samuel and Randall Gay. Although many Pat fans anticipate that 2nd year player Ellis Hobbs will start over Gay next year and that Gay will be the nickle back. Warfield and C Scott will be the #5 & #6 CB's. H Poteat will probably be late cut and signed if one of the other CB's go on IR. V Brown UDFA from Fl will try to earn a roster spot most likely be a PS player.

The Safety position was a disaster last year, 3 of the top 4 were on IR and the team went through 6 guys trying to find a player for R Harrison's spot. they ended up setteling on A Hawkins a converted CB. he did a very good job and had a lot to do with the improvement of the D over the latter part of the Season. R Harrison's injury has been reported to be not as serious as first feared. Harrison has been running at offseason workouts. He says he will be ready for TC, my guess would be that is put on the PUP list and comes back at midseason a la Tedy B last year. The starters to start the season will be Hawkins and Wilson, G Scott and J Sanders will be the backups, M Mitchell and T Jones will be competing for ST slots. G Scott has looked good when on the field but has been injured both years. He will be on the bubble with Jones and Mitchell.

To sum up the D, the DL is the best of any Patriot team ever. The LB group is in transition and 2-3 players have to step up to make it into as good a group as in the past, we'll call it weaker until proven otherwise on the field. The DB have a lot of experience and depth, this could be the best group of Pat DB's top to bottom of the BB era.

With my Rose colored glasses firmly in place I am optimistic about the D.


Onto the O:

The OL is the best the Patriots have had since BB has been here. Light, & Koppen are back from IR. They have on the roster 4 of the 5 starters from the last SB team, but 1 of them Gorin will lose the starting position to 2nd year player Kaczur (who filled in last year for Light). Kaczur and Mankins both started as rookies and did a good job they should be better this year with that experience. All the backups are back from last year (except Ashworth). There are a few rookies competing for roster spots O'Callahan has the best shot.

TE, they have lost Fauria & Jed Weaver from the last SB and added Watson (who was on IR last SB) and Thomas (rookie from Texas) this group is better than the SB group. I think you will see a lot of 2 TE sets from the Pats this year.


WR, this group has seen the most change. Givens and Patten are gone from the last SB team and T Brown is in the last year of his career. Caldwell B Johnson and Jackson will be counted on the replace Givens this year. Johnson has been a disappointment thus far as a WR (good as a KR), and will have to step it up or he could be gone. Bam Childress will try to gain a roster spot here. I expect they will carry 5 WR's. Like the LB position there are questions here and this position has to be considered weaker until proven otherwise.

RB, This group is adding Maroney and Mincey to the SB group of Dillon, Faulk and Pass. Dillon, Pass and Faulk are all coming off injury plagued year. Depending on Maroney this group could be better than the SB group. Mincey could change the O a bit as a Hback/FB. Giving then a recieving option they haveen't had since K Turner left 10 years ago.

QB: The Brady kid has some potential, and should be entering his prime at 28 yrs old. Cassel backed up Palmer and Leinert during his USC career. He did a good job when given the opportunity in the Dolphin game. IMO he will be the #2 this year. Flutie will decide on retiring this week, if he comes back he will be the #3, if Doug retires they will bring in a vet. They drafted Bramlett from Wyo who figures to be a PS guy.

QB is better than the last SB group. Brady fin my biased view is the best QB in football, with all due respect to Ben R who has had the best 2 year start in NFL history.

Miller & Paxon return as the punter and LS.

That brings us to the PK. Well AV is gone, didn't give the Pats a chance to match the Indy offer, wanted out of the cold and into the dome. Gramatica and a Gostowski will look to replace him. I expect the rookie to be given the chance to win the job. This will be one of the biggest question marks during preseason. On paper this looks to be a downgrade. I certainly can't anticipate that either of these guys will be the clutch kicker that AV was. I don't know however if they won't be better this year. Last year AV had trouble over 40 yds and hasn't kicked a 50+ FG since 2002 ( I was amazed when this pointed out during the AV FA period. His KO's weren't good last yeat. The story won't be told here until we see in the new guy can perform in the clutch. We knew that AV did.

IMO the reports of the Pats demise have been greatly exaggerated. They do have questions, and changes to their roster, but what NFL team doesn't?

BTW I love all the 'experts dismissing the Pats, I'm sure this 'disrepecting' won't be lost on the players and coaches. Listening to Brady and Sey they are ****ed about the playoff loss and are very hungry to try to dethrone the champs. I do think the Steelers should be the top rated team in the power polls until they lose, they are the champs and have earned it.

I wish TC was starting next week this time (after mini camp) of the year sucks I wish that TC was startihg.
 

Patriotic Fervor

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Quite a good analysis, but you should edit your post to reflect the reality that Mincey is a linebacker, not a running back.

Like I say, other than that, a very good analysis.
 
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DarrylS

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Three things come to mind:

1. The maligned pats d backfield played a lot better when we let Seymour and crew become more active on the D line, it seems there was a subtle change around game 10 or 11 in '05, when BB seemed to have taken a more active role in the D...prior to that we seemed too soft in the trenches..

2. The '05 draft focused on developing depth on the O line, to protect Brady, injuries forced these guys to play earlier than the team would have liked them to, but we have significantly increased our ability to block for him.

3. The '06 draft, focused on giving Brady and the O more tools, more firepower and more options...

I don't see the demise, even though I am a homer, what I see is a well calculated plan on the part of BB and Pioli, bottom line is I expect to see between 11 to 13 wins this year, that is not a team on the decline... we still have about 12 million in cap room to sign some folks before training camp.
 

patsfan13

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Patriotic Fervor said:
Quite a good analysis, but you should edit your post to reflect the reality that Mincey is a linebacker, not a running back.

Like I say, other than that, a very good analysis.

OOps it was late and I meant Mills, sorry bout that! Will edit.
 
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Fumblerooski

Practice Squad Player
IMHO, the Pats should still be right in the thick of things again this season. Last year they could have advanced if not for some injuries, incredibly bad calls and a huge turnover by none other than Brady. This is not going to happen over and over, so the nucleus of the team is still intact. This is still a dangerous team and if it stays healthy could beat any team. I would ask, if not the Pats, then who? I don't see any team out there that the Pats can't handle on a given Sunday. This season their schedule is more in their favor so those Playoff games should be here in Foxboro which gives them a slight edge with home field advantage. They need to jump out early and often to get their record favorable. Last year the NFL obviously wanted them gone and gave them the toughest schedule in the history of the game. Note to "competition" committee - your tactic worked, now how about getting back to being fair for all teams now that your vendetta succeeded.

The problem is, a lot of other teams in the NFL are also capable of winning a Lombardi so it is not an easy task of winning them. So, if the Pats don't win them year after year, I guess they are no longer a dynasty in the eyes of many of the media. However, after a few more seasons, longevity at the top is going to come into play much like the old 49er dynasty.

I would counter the argument taht the dynasty has come to en end as saying how many other "dynasties" have there actually been since the days of no FA and unlimited cap has ended. None other than the Pats come to my mind.

The feat of winning 3/4 SBs in this modern era is still not getting it's due credit. Only history will be able to correctly place this team in the pecking order of all time great dynasties. And, a win this year to make it 4/6 and in the FA and cap era, would probably put it right at the top of the all time list along with the 49ers, Steelers and Boys.

Either way, these are still the good old days for Pats fans and I see no end in sight to this run. We should all enjoy the ride and dismiss the media who need to creat stories to separate themselves from their pack of wolves, but specificially on this byline, the facts are getting in the way of this headline.
 
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PatsFanInVa

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I do agree that the Pats will be in the thick of things. I do see some problem areas, but I don't consider them the backbreakers the media like to point to. After all, it was Wilson and Samuel - the "fill ins" from two years ago - who were "anchors" last year (even if Wilson had a down year.) The idea is that these kids are growing, and they're growing with the best coach in the league and with the most far-sighted system in the league.

All that said, the problem areas remain. One thing that makes 3 out of 4 the huge accomplishment it was, is the level of NFL competition, and the focus needed to get to the top - even once - never mind 3 years out of 4.

It's not past the Pats' capabilities this year, and is no more daunting a task than 2003 was. It is far from a "shoe in" however, and I would not call the Pats "favorites." That should go to Pittsburgh - they are the champs.

For now.

PFnV
 

PATSNUTme

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Not intended for any posters.
Just the dumbass writers who have more time on their hands then they should. They then feel compelled to write the crap that is the subject of this thread.
 

AzPatsFan

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
The RECORD

Fumblerooski said:
The feat of winning 3/4 SBs in this modern era is still not getting it's due credit. Only history will be able to correctly place this team in the pecking order of all time great dynasties. And, a win this year to make it 4/6 and in the FA and cap era, would probably put it right at the top of the all time list along with the 49ers, Steelers and Boys.

Either way, these are still the good old days for Pats fans and I see no end in sight to this run. We should all enjoy the ride and dismiss the media who need to creat stories to separate themselves from their pack of wolves, but specificially on this byline, the facts are getting in the way of this headline.

The Super Bowl wins are what its all about; but THE RECORD is what distinguishes this dynasty right now.

Twenty One Straight (without a loss or tie), the longest in the history of the NFL is a measure of the dynasties strength. The prediction on my part that this 2005 Patriots edition couldbe potentially better still, and could start a similar run for the record places me in the stream that says "..You ain't seen nuhthin', yet..." This 2006 edition is stronger on the OL, TE, RB, DL, & DB corps. It maybe weaker or the same at LB and or (mayber even stronger at) WR ST should be the same or weaker at K. Better at 5, weaker orequal at 3; net, net better...
 

spacecrime

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Has the destruction of the dynasty begun?

I was afraid this would happen

we're doomed
 
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ilduce06410

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
destruction? yeah, its begun, but only begun.

shakadave said:
Um, no. Next question?
patriots have let go of about 6 players who were in the core in 2001. some of them in pretty cold blooded fashion.
other players (chatham & that te from revere who's with the vikes) are gone too, for reasons i dang sure didn't understand.
turnover is sure there but it IMO its the kind of turnover a championship team has to engender. NEW BLOOD.
another fact: other nfl teams really want to get hold of patriot players with rings. it's kinda funny, but teams get this idea that if they get some patriots in their locker rooms the "winning attitude" gets jumpstarted. i call it SB magic dust.
so yeah, they do pull at them, trying to get them loose. sometimes it's gotta be an offer you can't refuse. how much did RAC give andruzzi?
but it's anticipated, i think. just need to define the rest of the 'core' (wilfork, wilson, koppen, the twig, probably warren, vrabel) and lock them down longterm like brady and big sey. then others can pull at the roster, and get some good ones. but a core of, maybe 10 players is enuf. i still think we'll see another ring in 2008, maybe '09 too. a la '70s steelers.
 
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godef

In the Starting Line-Up
p8ryts said:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/andrew_perloff/05/12/minicamp.roundup/index.html

Andrew Perloff, Inside the NFL says:

"NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS
Key question: Has the destruction of the dynasty begun? ...
Only time can tell. But I'll tell you one thing. Dallas of the early-mid 90s never had the track record of producing victories despite numerous injury losses that the Pats had. Which tells me that the success is in the Patriot's system. Rookies like Randall Gay coming to fruit (no pun intended) before their time. Just substitute free agency losses for injury losses.

As far as I'm concerned, the dynasty is still on... we did not fail to win the SB last year for lack of competiveness in the playoffs.
 
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Bostonian1962

In the Starting Line-Up
p8ryts said:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/andrew_perloff/05/12/minicamp.roundup/index.html

Andrew Perloff, Inside the NFL says:

"NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS
Key question: Has the destruction of the dynasty begun? Remember how the mid-'90s Cowboys started bleeding talent to free agency and the Super Bowl runs abruptly stopped? It feels like that process is well under way in New England. There's been some grumbling from key players about losing veterans, and unless coach Bill Belichick imposes a gag order, it could continue this offseason."

What a bunch of BS!!! We will be better than last year, we will be more focused, and we will win the 4th SB this year..

Andrew Perloff does not impress me. The Cowboys started having just horrific drafts. I mean terrible! The Patriots are one of, if not the best drafting team in the NFL. No comparison between the two. Moreover, this crap started before their 2nd and 3rd Super Bowl Championships, with various FA losses. These clowns that write for a living, are suppose to learn from their past mistakes.
 
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