Joe Judge clashed with receivers in 2019....

[1960Pats]

So the original post headline is stated as absolute fact, yet after four pages of thread, there's not a single shred of evidence offered to support it.
Mods, suggest a headline change.

Any suggestion? It looks like Curran is claiming that he has a reliable source. Maybe it should start with Curran Claims.

I really don't get the big deal anyway. Yes, Judge (like Patricia) did poorly as a HC, but it doesn't mean we should crucify him before he even takes the job. Who are we to judge Judge?

 

[1960Pats]

I wish I had a nickle for every head coach that didn't cut it the 1st time around but fared better the 2nd time. It probably happens more times then not. Happens often is business too. "Gee...this guy does a very good job at what he does...let's promote him to something he's never done before".

Promotions pay more...hard to turn them down.

Better is too subjective. If I had a nickel for every HC that didn't cut it the first time and didn't get a 2nd chance, or did and failed again, I think I'd have many more nickels than you.

Maybe he's an exception though.

 

[p8ryts]

Any suggestion? It looks like Curran is claiming that he has a reliable source. Maybe it should start with Curran Claims.

I really don't get the big deal anyway. Yes, Judge (like Patricia) did poorly as a HC, but it doesn't mean we should crucify him before he even takes the job. Who are we to judge Judge?

The wisdom of the aged.

 

[crawhammer]

That's NOT what you said. You said that "Daniel Jones was at least as good as Mac Jones in his rookie season". I showed that your claim that Daniel was at least as good was complete garbage and laughable.

I know what I said. Your latter comment is your opinion. DJ had a decent rookie season when by some metrics he was better than MJ... that's just a fact. It's also true that DJ sucked once Judge became his head coach. DJ is going to play better with Daboll as his HC now. We'll see what effect Judge has on MJ as an OA. We can revisit the conversation once we have more data.

Nobody but Bill has a damn clue who will do what, there’s a possibility even he is letting it happen organically. Nick Caley could be the offensive coordinator by season’s end. You’re a BB hater and Brady honk, so you’re actively looking for reasons to whine.

Or instead hire an offensive coordinator with some experience and credibility.

 

[BTTA]

Any suggestion? It looks like Curran is claiming that he has a reliable source. Maybe it should start with Curran Claims.

I really don't get the big deal anyway. Yes, Judge (like Patricia) did poorly as a HC, but it doesn't mean we should crucify him before he even takes the job. Who are we to judge Judge?

"Curran claims" works.
I won't judge you for judging Judge, but I will judge you positively for trying to avoid judging.
I think this issue gets emotionally smurgled in with the bigger concern about Pats' coaching staff going forward, seemingly undermanned and poorly placed. But who am I to judge?

 

[1960Pats]

"Curran claims" works.
I won't judge you for judging Judge, but I will judge you positively for trying to avoid judging.
I think this issue gets emotionally smurgled in with the bigger concern about Pats' coaching staff going forward, seemingly undermanned and poorly placed. But who am I to judge?

I'll be judging Judge after a few games.

 

[Sfpat]

I'll be judging Judge after a few games.

I'll give him at least 2 offensive series, the least I can do as a member of Patsfans

 

[n6249c]

I'll give him at least 2 offensive series, the least I can do as a member of Patsfans

I’m betting the GDT will not be so patient. Just based on past performance I think that’s a safe bet. So, no, two series is far from the least you can do as a member of PatsFans.

 

[Sfpat]

I’m betting the GDT will not be so patient. Just based on past performance I think that’s a safe bet. So, no, two series is far from the least you can do as a member of PatsFans.

So first two series of the first preseason game?

 

[Ring 6]

I know what I said. Your latter comment is your opinion. DJ had a decent rookie season when by some metrics he was better than MJ... that's just a fact. It's also true that DJ sucked once Judge became his head coach. DJ is going to play better with Daboll as his HC now. We'll see what effect Judge has on MJ as an OA. We can revisit the conversation once we have more data.


Or instead hire an offensive coordinator with some experience and credibility.

Jones was no better his rookie year than he has been the last 2. His numbers are virtually identical, the team and offense were virtually identical with the difference being a healthy Saquan Barkley.

 

[1960Pats]

I'll give him at least 2 offensive series, the least I can do as a member of Patsfans

We should all know by then.

 

[State]

"There were blowups at practice or at least one … in which a receiver said, 'You don't know what you're talking about.'" – Tom Curran

Happens in families all the time. This could be verbatim what my wife tells me when we’re talking family finances.

 

[crawhammer]

Jones was no better his rookie year than he has been the last 2. His numbers are virtually identical

You are wrong... unless you want to argue TDs aren't relevant?

Year	Team	GS​	TD​	TD%​
2019	NYG	12​	24​	5.2​
2020	NYG	14​	11​	2.5​
2021	NYG	11​	10​	2.8​
Career	NYG​	37​	45​	3.5​

24 & 5.2% is much better than 11 & 10 and 2.5% & 2.8%. In two combined seasons with Judge, Daniel Jones couldn't even match the number of TDs he had in his rookie season.

 

[Ring 6]

You are wrong... unless you want to argue TDs aren't relevant?

Year	Team	GS​	TD​	TD%​
2019	NYG	12​	24​	5.2​
2020	NYG	14​	11​	2.5​
2021	NYG	11​	10​	2.8​
Career	NYG​	37​	45​	3.5​

24 & 5.2% is much better than 11 & 10 and 2.5% & 2.8%. In two combined seasons with Judge, Daniel Jones couldn't even match the number of TDs he had in his rookie season.

Every other statistic is virtually identical. The TD difference was because he had a healthy Barkley.
They were 3-9 in his starts in 2019

 

[crawhammer]

Every other statistic is virtually identical. The TD difference was because he had a healthy Barkley.

The TD difference was due to his much higher TD%. If DJ sucks the rest of his career then we'll know it was a statistical anomaly. Just like Cam Newton in 2015 when he had a TD% way above his norm... it won him a league MVP when his completion percentage was still below 60%.

DJ's first NFL start/win he threw for 336 and 2 TDs while Barkley was useless (10 yards on 8 attempts), in fact DJ outrushed Barkley in that game. DJ won his second start too with Barkley inactive. DJ had 4 or more TDs in three starts as a rookie (MJ had zero). DJ also had the three highest passing totals of the two. DJ had games in his rookie season that indicated a 1st round draft pick. He was garbage with Judge and he'll look a lot better with Daboll.

 

[TommyD4207]

You are wrong... unless you want to argue TDs aren't relevant?

Year	Team	GS​	TD​	TD%​
2019	NYG	12​	24​	5.2​
2020	NYG	14​	11​	2.5​
2021	NYG	11​	10​	2.8​
Career	NYG​	37​	45​	3.5​

24 & 5.2% is much better than 11 & 10 and 2.5% & 2.8%. In two combined seasons with Judge, Daniel Jones couldn't even match the number of TDs he had in his rookie season.

Giants declined his 5th year option. #6 overall and they're willing to let him walk after the season.

Or, you know, he's better than Mac Jones.

 

[Ring 6]

The TD difference was due to his much higher TD%. If DJ sucks the rest of his career then we'll know it was a statistical anomaly. Just like Cam Newton in 2015 when he had a TD% way above his norm... it won him a league MVP when his completion percentage was still below 60%.

DJ's first NFL start/win he threw for 336 and 2 TDs while Barkley was useless (10 yards on 8 attempts), in fact DJ outrushed Barkley in that game. DJ won his second start too with Barkley inactive. DJ had 4 or more TDs in three starts as a rookie (MJ had zero). DJ also had the three highest passing totals of the two. DJ had games in his rookie season that indicated a 1st round draft pick. He was garbage with Judge and he'll look a lot better with Daboll.

This is where your substituting a desire for negativity in place of thoughtfulness results in foolishness. Using Barkleys stats in one game to imply he is not a threat that helps the qb is just ignoring or not understanding football. You seem to ignore his 8 game losing streak. 2 of his 3 wins were against the 3-13 redskins and 3 wins were against teams that were combined 13-35. He also lost to the 3-12-1 lions, 5-10-1 cardinals and the lowly Jete.
Jones was not good as a rookie and has been the same guy for 3 years.
His w/l record was better under judge than in his rookie year.
So you are ignoring every single factor except one statistic.

 

[crawhammer]

Giants declined his 5th year option. #6 overall and they're willing to let him walk after the season.

Or, you know, he's better than Mac Jones.

We're talking ROOKIE SEASONS... not the two subsequent seasons with a complete loser for a head coach driving the offense into the ground.

Take every rookie start for Daniel Jones and Mac Jones and rank them... the top 5:

DJ... 132.1 passer rating, 352 passing yards, 5 passing TDs, 0 INTs
DJ... 112.7 passer rating, 336 passing yards, 2 passing TDs, 0 INTs, 2 rushing TDs
DJ... 124.2 passer rating, 322 passing yards, 4 passing TDs, 0 INTs
DJ... 121.7 passer rating, 308 passing yards, 4 passing TDs, 0 INTs
MJ...142.1 passer rating, 198 passing yards, 3 passing TDs, 0 INTs

DJ has 4 of the top 5... also in MJ's game his backup had a perfect passer rating with another TD. At his best DJ showed more talent than MJ in their rookie seasons. That NYG is not picking up the 5th year option on a completely demoralized quarterback doesn't mean anything other than NYG made a gigantic mistake putting their young franchise quarterback in the hands of a total incompetent. The same clown now working with Mac Jones in some unclear capacity.

This is where your substituting a desire for negativity in place of thoughtfulness results in foolishness. Using Barkleys stats in one game to imply he is not a threat that helps the qb is just ignoring or not understanding football. You seem to ignore his 8 game losing streak. 2 of his 3 wins were against the 3-13 redskins and 3 wins were against teams that were combined 13-35. He also lost to the 3-12-1 lions, 5-10-1 cardinals and the lowly Jete.
Jones was not good as a rookie and has been the same guy for 3 years.
His w/l record was better under judge than in his rookie year.
So you are ignoring every single factor except one statistic.

I'm a fool?? You want to ignore TDs! The Patriots beat a lot of horrible and/or decimated teams this past season as well and they finished out a very ugly 1-4... you're apparently leaving that out of your "thoughtful analysis."

 

[Ring 6]

We're talking ROOKIE SEASONS... not the two subsequent seasons with a complete loser for a head coach driving the offense into the ground.

Take every rookie start for Daniel Jones and Mac Jones and rank them... the top 5:

DJ... 132.1 passer rating, 352 passing yards, 5 passing TDs, 0 INTs
DJ... 112.7 passer rating, 336 passing yards, 2 passing TDs, 0 INTs, 2 rushing TDs
DJ... 124.2 passer rating, 322 passing yards, 4 passing TDs, 0 INTs
DJ... 121.7 passer rating, 308 passing yards, 4 passing TDs, 0 INTs
MJ...142.1 passer rating, 198 passing yards, 3 passing TDs, 0 INTs

DJ has 4 of the top 5... also in MJ's game his backup had a perfect passer rating with another TD. At his best DJ showed more talent than MJ in their rookie seasons. That NYG is not picking up the 5th year option on a completely demoralized quarterback doesn't mean anything other than NYG made a gigantic mistake putting their young franchise quarterback in the hands of a total incompetent. The same clown now working with Mac Jones in some unclear capacity.


I'm a fool?? You want to ignore TDs! The Patriots beat a lot of horrible and/or decimated teams this past season as well and they finished out a very ugly 1-4... you're apparently leaving that out of your "thoughtful analysis."

Yes you are a fool. You are arguing that the guy who was 3-9 was better because the guy who was 10-7 beat some bad teams. Remarkable.

Seems you missed a bunch of Macs games in your little ranking system.

 

[1960Pats]

Giants declined his 5th year option. #6 overall and they're willing to let him walk after the season.

Or, you know, he's better than Mac Jones.

Did he say that DJ was better than Mac?

The Giants were the team that took DJ at #6 in the first place. I wouldn't trust their judgement now that they're letting him go.

Edit: I went back and checked and I misunderstood your response. The discussion was about their rookie seasons and not which QB was better overall.