Jet Fan Twitter source: Pats to shop Welker

[Ian]

We're discussing the idea, not the rumor. The rumor is probably bogus. The idea has some merit.

With all due respect, I don't think it has any merit. As I said, Welker is a guy with too many intangibles to assume you can get a draft pick/another player and have them be anywhere near as productive, especially considering the fact that they were trying to add another veteran to the mix to compliment Moss and Welker, and not one worked out. At the time since they had Moss, they were looking for an outside possession receiver, and none of them could fit what they needed from them in this system. I think most here would agree that aside from Troy Brown, Welker's the best slot receiver they've have had in the last decade - and I've heard arguments people have made that he's one of the best ever.

Again, imagine going into next season with Branch, Tate, and Edelman - who I've already said needs to have a complete year where he plays well and avoids an injury before it can be assumed he can catch 100+ receptions the way Welker has. I'm just as high on Gronkowski and Hernandez as everyone else, but losing Welker without a guy who can do what he does just doesn't make any sense. I've even thought about the high draft picks since my last post on this, and even then you can't really do it. We're approaching the end of Brady & Belichick's shelf life with this football team, and weakening them offensively for next season in hopes of future draft picks (that may or may not pan out) is just too risky IMO. I think you let him play out his final deal, and get what you can from him on the field. Unless he suddenly becomes disruptive and a problem in the locker room, but I can't see that happening.

I understand the Seymour trade reference, but I'm pretty sure that was done with Belichick knowing what he had in Wilfork, hence the reason why Vince got the deal he did. They just don't have that guy to fill in for Welker's production, not until Edelman starts believing he's a better player than where he was drafted. Because as I said, if you eliminate what he did in the final two games, he didn't have an impressive sophmore season.

As a matter of fact, I had this discussion three weeks ago with someone talking about where Edelman fit in heading into next year. I honestly think if you take away those two games, you're talking about the possibility that he may even be battling for a roster spot next season and there were several media people who agreed based on what he'd done prior to that. As I've said, I'm rooting for the kid because obviously it would be great to see him succeed, but I'm not willing to risk moving Welker in hopes that we'll finally see Edelman play up to the level that we thought he would. Not until we actually see him doing it on the field each week consistently.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Again, imagine going into next season with Branch, Tate, and Edelman - who I've already said needs to have a complete year where he plays well and avoids an injury before it can be assumed he can catch 100+ receptions the way Welker has. I'm just as high on Gronkowski and Hernandez as everyone else, but losing Welker without a guy who can do what he does just doesn't make any sense. I've even thought about the high draft picks since my last post on this, and even then you can't really do it. We're approaching the end of Brady & Belichick's shelf life with this football team, and weakening them offensively for next season in hopes of future draft picks (that may or may not pan out) is just too risky IMO. I think you let him play out his final deal, and get what you can from him on the field. Unless he suddenly becomes disruptive and a problem in the locker room, but I can't see that happening.

And aren't we making some assumptions here that may or may not be warranted—(1) that BB doesn't WANT to keep Welker, (2) that Welker is going to demand a lot of money, and (3) that there are other teams willing to pay it?

After all, look at what Branch did in Seattle after he left, and what happened to Moss after he was traded. Why would teams suddenly assume that clearly things are going to be different with Welker?

 

[Dutchmaster617]

Re: Credible Twitter source: Pats to shop Welker

That's not enough of a sample to tell me much, honestly. The Jets record in those 2 years gave them early divisonal round games. if you're doing a comparison, you can't penalize the Patriots for grabbing byes in 2007 and 2010. That makes the playoff record mean less.

The point is, the Patriots won those Super Bowls by playing the same exact style they are playing now. The difference is that back then they had a few more players than we do now.

I look at our defense and see young players and guys like Banta-Cain, Ninkovich, Love, gerard Warren, who will not be starting the next time the Patriots make a big splash.

I also think you're giving the Jets too much credit. We got beat by a team that is suspect, suspect in the front DL and suspect on offense. And they did it because the Patriots made 3 or 4 bonehead mistakes they couldn't overcome.

Would you rather we wait until Brady retires to make some changes? Will him retiring with those 3 rings in 4 years and nothing in 10+ after be a better sample?

The Jets are suspect, that is my point, we lost to a suspect WC team just like we did last time we had the best record in football, that alone should make you question if they are playing the same way. They clearly are not playing as tough as before and we can wait and take the losses but it won't change by staying conservative.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

I find it so ironic that basically the same people that were sick and tired of the Jets lack of character, 'antics', trash talk and disrespect of the Patriots have now turn on the team and are trashing Belichick, Brady, Welker and whoever else they feel like.
I often wonder how representative of the fan base this board is, but this week, when the 'fans' who didnt get the SB win they feel they have an entitlement to, turn against the best of the best in the league just to help them get over thier own butt hurt, I feel embarrassed to be a part of it.

There is actually discussion on this board where people say they looked into Brady's eyes and knew he didn't care about the game.
I don't know why ot has to be this way.

How are they the best team in the league when they couldn't get it done? That is being easy considering they let Sanchez throw 3 TDs, the line played horribly, the coaching was off and the list goes on. I don't think it is turning on the team to say look we blew two dominant seasons and have lost 3 straight playoff games, clearly this team isn't built to last through January, something that was completely opposite years ago.

 

[Ring 6]

This is not really helpful. They play the same position. How many passes did Brady complete in 2000? When Edelman filled in for Welker as a rookie he was productive and showed quite a bit of skill. In fact, he was the best playmaker on the team in the playoff loss to Balt. Maybe he'll never catch 120 balls, but there's no doubt in my mind he would catch 80-100 if given the job full-time. I love Welker and I think his toughness and attitude is important to the team, but if they don't think they will resign him after next season, I'd rather get a 2nd round pick and go forward with Edelman.

Edleman was basically a failure this year. He had more drops than catches for a long stretch. He couldnt get on the field.
80-100 catches, are you out of your mind? Did he catch 10 this year? I didnt look it up but I think it was about that. Are you seriously telling me we have an 80-100 catch receiver and just dont use him? Why is there a rule against 2 white recievers? It seems that is what you see, both are white and quick, so they must be the same guy.

 

[Ring 6]

People forget about that.

Edleman needs more playing time.

Dude, Edelman had every chance to get playing time this year and every chance he got he pretty much sucked.
I don't think he cant improve but he was terrible this year. He is closer to out of the league than the best slot receiver, maybe ever.

 

[Ring 6]

Discussing the possibility of trading Welker due to age, quality of backup and what he'll command on his next contract is not equivalent to "trashing" him.

No it is not. However that is not what has happened in this thread.

Personally, I'll never get why some people are so sensitive that they'll lash out at anyone and everyone who suggests that the Pats roster isn't absolutely perfect as currently constructed.

Of course you will never get it because it doesnt happen. That is just your strawman.

And among people who took issue with the Jets' (lack of) character, if they were going to look to anywhere on the roster, why wouldn't they look at Wes? He was enough of a pre-game distraction that Belichick saw fit to bench him, after all. If I was going to "trash" Welker, I'd trash him for picking a really bad time to get on BB's bad side.

Again, defending an attitude that isnt the one that has been expressed in the thread accomplishes nothing toward defending what actually happened.

 

[PatriotsInGA]

I read this topic and I swear to God I am still fishing for my heart somewhere in my stomach. When we lost Branch to Seattle, I was mildly sad. When Moss got traded, I felt little to no sorrow. If Welker got traded....I would feel like I did when Johnny Damon left for the Yankees, kinda betrayed. I know it wouldn't be Welker's fault, but still.

 

[Ring 6]

How are they the best team in the league when they couldn't get it done? That is being easy considering they let Sanchez throw 3 TDs, the line played horribly, the coaching was off and the list goes on. I don't think it is turning on the team to say look we blew two dominant seasons and have lost 3 straight playoff games, clearly this team isn't built to last through January, something that was completely opposite years ago.

I didnt say they were the best team, in fact I said the better team won.
The best of the best comment meant Brady and Belichick as well as Welker, not the team.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

But why do you guys put Wes on a pedestal with Brady? Because he had a few 100 catch seasons? I love the guy and think he is one of the most respectable receivers in the game but NO WAY is he untouchable, only one player is untouchable and unreasonable to discuss getting rid of and we all know who that is.

 

[PatriotsInGA]

And for whoever put up the Julio Jones highlights, THAT is what we need. Welker is better when he has a guy going over the top.

 

[Ring 6]

But why do you guys put Wes on a pedestal with Brady? Because he had a few 100 catch seasons? I love the guy and think he is one of the most respectable receivers in the game but NO WAY is he untouchable, only one player is untouchable and unreasonable to discuss getting rid of and we all know who that is.

He doesnt have to be Brady to make it foolish to think we are better without him.

 

[Keyser Söze]

But why do you guys put Wes on a pedestal with Brady? Because he had a few 100 catch seasons? I love the guy and think he is one of the most respectable receivers in the game but NO WAY is he untouchable, only one player is untouchable and unreasonable to discuss getting rid of and we all know who that is.

Danny Woodhead?

 

[Sciz]

Danny Woodhead?

Brett Favre wishes his Danny Woodhead was touched more

 

[JMarr]

Sure. In about 5 weeks it will be March and it takes time to work out a deal.

If reports are true that Welker POed of BB by not reporting to his office when summoned, then I could see why BB would be wheeling and dealing.

Maybe Vince is next....

NFL.com Blogs Blog Archive Patriots DT Wilfork questions Welker’s benching

"That was something Bill and Wes went through,” Wilfork said. “Me, personally, I don’t know, I don’t know. That’s the head man making a point about what we represent. I wouldn’t have done it. That’s just me. Biggest game of the year so far, and probably one of your biggest players not being on the field. That’s just me. Everybody has their opinion. That’s my opinion. I wouldn’t have done it.”

 

[upstater1]

Maybe Vince is next....

NFL.com Blogs Blog Archive Patriots DT Wilfork questions Welker’s benching

"That was something Bill and Wes went through,” Wilfork said. “Me, personally, I don’t know, I don’t know. That’s the head man making a point about what we represent. I wouldn’t have done it. That’s just me. Biggest game of the year so far, and probably one of your biggest players not being on the field. That’s just me. Everybody has their opinion. That’s my opinion. I wouldn’t have done it.”

I think it was a good thing that Vince pushed back a little on this, if only to say that Belichick also has a responsibility to the other players on the field for all the work they've put in.

 

[BradyFTW!]

No it is not. However that is not what has happened in this thread.


Of course you will never get it because it doesnt happen. That is just your strawman.


Again, defending an attitude that isnt the one that has been expressed in the thread accomplishes nothing toward defending what actually happened.

Based on your prior posts, I thought this thread was all about hyperbole.

Either way, it wouldn't kill you to take your own advice

 

[TriplecHamp]

But why do you guys put Wes on a pedestal with Brady? Because he had a few 100 catch seasons? I love the guy and think he is one of the most respectable receivers in the game but NO WAY is he untouchable, only one player is untouchable and unreasonable to discuss getting rid of and we all know who that is.

Randy Moss

 

[Triumph]

Edleman was basically a failure this year. He had more drops than catches for a long stretch. He couldnt get on the field.
80-100 catches, are you out of your mind? Did he catch 10 this year? I didnt look it up but I think it was about that. Are you seriously telling me we have an 80-100 catch receiver and just dont use him? Why is there a rule against 2 white recievers? It seems that is what you see, both are white and quick, so they must be the same guy.

Edleman and Welker play the same position. Do you think that NE is going to sit the WR who is being paid more so Edleman can get his playing time?

BTW, Welker lead the NFL in drops this season. Not including that TD pass he dropped vs the Jets last weekend.

 

[Triumph]

Dude, Edelman had every chance to get playing time this year and every chance he got he pretty much sucked.
I don't think he cant improve but he was terrible this year. He is closer to out of the league than the best slot receiver, maybe ever.

I didnt notice you complaining about Edleman last season when he got to start more games due to Welker fighting injury.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Julian Edelman

Edleman will be back. So he had a setback in year two? Big deal. BJGE would be gone and Maroney still around if some of these "fans" ran the team.