If you were Kraft and this season doesn’t improve, do you move on from Bill after this season?

[Boomer B]

I think you're wrong about the jury on the drafts, but if you want to dispute the results, that's fine. But for the process, he was told to collaborate more, and he did. He didn't need to be threatened or fired or any of that.

As for the free agency stuff, I don't disagree. I think he's an excellent bargain shopper and right now we need to do better. I think Kraft goes to him, like the businessman who likes to foster relationships that he is, and says, we'd like to consider having more of a consensus approach. And Bill, will probably agree, like he did with the drafts.

I get you're angry and want to make a bold move. But that doesn't sound like Kraft's way, and he's the only one who makes that call.

The problem is still that the team is being built by Bills philosophy, which tends a lot more towards D than O. With Bill in charge the philosophy doesn’t change.

 

[SteveBsFan]

Thing is, Bill wasn't always this stubborn on offense or was he?

In 2006 he left the cupboard bare. So went out and got moss/welker/stallworth.

Left the cupboard bare in 2013 again when Brady was throwing to kenbrell Tompkins so he went in 2014 and got lafell and Hogan. But he had an elite talent in Gronk.

But since 2018 he's basically ignored the offense. Never replaced Gronk leaving us with Ben Watson and the lost 2019 year. Then never replaced White as a 3rd down back.

You would think bill learned from Moss and Gronk the power of having an elite talent. Instead he's rolling out Parker/juju/Bourne. And think he would've learned from always having a reliable 3rd down back that we need one.

But it's like he's even ignoring his own past

Here is the issue
Stallworth and Welker were mediocre and Moss was coming off a 500 yard season.

Same with Hogan and LaFell. **** Julian was a QB coming out of college.

None of those guys except (what we thought was a washed up Moss) ever had a 1k yard season before joining Pats.

Every one of those guys came here and drastically improved because they were talented players who needed a good QB throwing to them.

Bourne is no worse than Stallworth, Welker, or LaFell (at the time of signing). Juju has a 1400 yard season and coming off s 933. Gesicki has had two 700 yard seasons. Parker was another former 1k yard guy.

This is not a bad receiving group. They just look far worse because Mac sucks. If Brady had this group in 2019, they’d almost certainly be a top 5 offense. He would be lighting it up with two talented TEs which would give the WR more room to work. And to have Stevenson and Zeke?

Pats fans just don’t want to hear it but Mac Jones is Zach Wilson with better weapons. He just sucks and has only looked half competent because of the roster and coaches around him (compared to Zach)

Edit- I don’t mean those receivers were mediocre but their stats were. They were all 500-600 yard receivers before joining

 

[Ring 6]

I was wrong the patriots fan base is so galvanized that nothing could cause this team to lose fans

That was never any piece of the discussion. But since you know that and choose to play dumb, it’s quite clear you have recognized you are wrong.

 

[Bruins29]

That was never any piece of the discussion. But since you know that and choose to play dumb, it’s quite clear you have recognized you are wrong.

What was the piece ? I thought fans could vote with their wallet

You made it clear that it’s not the case with the patriots

What else is there to say

 

[RIpats88]

Here is the issue
Stallworth and Welker were mediocre and Moss was coming off a 500 yard season.

Same with Hogan and LaFell. **** Julian was a QB coming out of college.

None of those guys except (what we thought was a washed up Moss) ever had a 1k yard season before joining Pats.

Every one of those guys came here and drastically improved because they were talented players who needed a good QB throwing to them.

Bourne is no worse than Stallworth, Welker, or LaFell (at the time of signing). Juju has a 1400 yard season and coming off s 933. Gesicki has had two 700 yard seasons. Parker was another former 1k yard guy.

This is not a bad receiving group. They just look far worse because Mac sucks. If Brady had this group in 2019, they’d almost certainly be a top 5 offense. He would be lighting it up with two talented TEs which would give the WR more room to work. And to have Stevenson and Zeke?

Pats fans just don’t want to hear it but Mac Jones is Zach Wilson with better weapons. He just sucks and has only looked half competent because of the roster and coaches around him (compared to Zach)

Edit- I don’t mean those receivers were mediocre but their stats were. They were all 500-600 yard receivers before joining

You must be smoking something to be hyping up our receiving core to such lengths and if you think they would be lighting up the league.

Everyone in the media says otherwise. How they can't get open and no one is explosive.

No one in the media will buy we have elite receivers. I don't care if guys had 1000 yards 5-6 years ago. That's ancient times in today's NFL

And Bourne as good as welker? A top 5 offense? Are you serious?

 

[Ring 6]

What was the piece ? I thought fans could vote with their wallet

You made it clear that it’s not the case with the patriots

What else is there to say

Yes I did, and you had no argument to refute it, so you wandered off into silly comments. I guess this one is resolved.

 

[Bruins29]

Yes I did, and you had no argument to refute it, so you wandered off into silly comments. I guess this one is resolved.

I diddnt realize the immense power the patriots held over their fans. Do you think any team that has a 20 year run like the pats has ability to indefinitely put whatever product on the field they want and fans will keep coming

Also you discuss things in math terms I.e engineering. I know these types as I work with them.

Are you a math/engineering guy ?

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

1. Does it look like I am joking

And B, how did you take what I said and turn it into me stating that the Pats are involved in a conspiracy to ignite fans.

What I stated is pretty much accepted gospel for any business. If you put out a product and its good, customers will come. If you put out a bad product and customers still come, then its likely the business wont change too much. Subsequently, if you put out a bad product and people dont come, then maybe a change is needed.


Would it be easier in Japanese? Here it is:

1. ?????????????????

???B???????????????????????????????????????????????

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


Here it is in Japanese phonetically if your Japanese is rusty. I know mine is.

1. J?dan o itte iru y? ni miemasu ka? Soshite B, d? yatte watashi no hatsugen o uketori, patto ga fan o aoru inb? ni kan'yo ****e iruto watashi ni shuch? ****a nodesu ka. Watashi ga nobeta koto wa, arayuru bijinesu ni totte hobo ukeire rarete iru fukuindesu. Sh?hin o dashite sore ga yokereba ogyakusan wa kite kuremasu. Warui seihin o dashite mo kokyaku ga kurunara, osoraku bijinesu wa amari kawaranaideshou. Sonogo, warui seihin o dashite mo hito ga konai baai wa, henka ga hitsuy? ni naru kamo shiremasen.

I didn’t even read this post and had to give you the winner reaction post for that opening line.

 

[Ring 6]

I diddnt realize the immense power the patriots held over their fans. Do you think any team that has a 20 year run like the pats has ability to indefinitely put whatever product on the field they want and fans will keep coming

Also you discuss things in math terms I.e engineering. I know these types as I work with them.

Are you a math/engineering guy ?

You didn’t realize they have a 20 year waiting list for season tickets and sell out every game?
You didn’t realize there is a tremendous resale market for patriot tickets?

They are trying to out the best product they can on the field. Every organization goes through down periods, it’s the nature of competitive sports under a salary cap. How entitled of you to be threatening to abandon the team because they aren’t handing you more than the unprecedented success they already have

Are you like this in your personal life? Do you whine, cry and blame every time something doesn’t go your way?

 

[SteveBsFan]

You must be smoking something to be hyping up our receiving core to such lengths and if you think they would be lighting up the league.

Everyone in the media says otherwise. How they can't get open and no one is explosive.

No one in the media will buy we have elite receivers. I don't care if guys had 1000 yards 5-6 years ago. That's ancient times in today's NFL

And Bourne as good as welker? A top 5 offense? Are you serious?

Yea I knew someone was going to reply to my Bourne / Welker comment.

When we picked up Welker, nobody was cheering like we scored a Tyreek Hill. He was a 500~ yard receiver in Miami. Just like Bourne in SF.

None of the guys listed were elite all-pro receivers except Moss who we all wondered if he still had any left in his tank.

And it wasn’t years ago. Juju had 1k last year. Parker was a 50+ YPG receiver in Miami. These are not scrubs pulled off the trash heap.

Are they top tier receivers like Hill, Waddle, etc? No. I’m not pretending they are. But the OP made it sound BB went out and scooped up the best receivers available. He didn’t. He picked up mid tier players who ended up crushing it because they didn’t have noodle arm Mac Jones throwing them the ball.

And yes, in 2019 the Pats finished 7th in scoring with just Edelman who was so beat up and double covered that he had only three 90+ games after game 6.

A QB like 2017-2019 Brady would easily have this roster top 5-7 in scoring.

 

[Jlaff]

That's the thing. You could put any QB back there. And nothing is getting better. Zappe came in yesterday and went 4-9 for 57 yards and was running for his life.

The roster is garbage. Fans want to delude themselves into thinking it's a one man fix.

Bill has ignored the offense for special teams and defense for far too long. And what we are left with is poor offensive skill players in a league which is moving more towards offense.

Receivers who can't get open and an OL that can't pass or run block.

Maybe it's time to lower expectations and just go with the one who isn't turning the ball over.

 

[venecol]

Isn’t Mac a McDaniels pick? I mean, QB busts define 3/4th of the league at all times, every season.

It’s okay to be stuck with someone for a season. I think firing Belichick leaves us cycling through the regulars while Bill goes to San Diego and creates a Super Bowl team.

I can’t imagine Coaching in 2015 and 2023 are that different. I’m not convinced Coaches “falling off a cliff” is a real thing. It’s not like he has to run a hurdle track to get to the film room. Tom Brady and any other player you could mention aside, what’s the difference between this Bill and the one who had to change the name of his boat every couple of years? General Manager and draft help is probably useful but most every team in the NFL would leap immediately at hiring him the moment it was news.

I mean, he was a **** to Tom and tried trading Gronk to Detroit, so he deserved a little smudge on his resume it could be argued, but I really doubt you’re going to upgrade at the HC position. And I highly suspect you could give him a made roster and watch him get them prepared AF for winning.

Have you bothered to look at the record of 70+ yo coaches? Not good. There's not that many, for a reason. Every year that goes by, those 20-something players are that much further away from getting Bill. Word around here was "better a year too early than a year too late." Bill is 2+ years too late. And you want to give him 4 more? Lmao. Is that what it'll take to beat Shula's wins record?

Dynasty's been dead. Time to move on. There's nothing Belichick can bring to the table unless he wants to be a LB coach.

As for other teams willing to hire him, I hope so. Maybe we can get one of them to trade a 1st rounder for him. Good luck with that.

 

[StanleyGrogan]

I never said they were.

And btw, if you're going to take cheap, smarmy shots from behind your computer at another poster you should at least spell the words correctly.

If you are going after my my spelling, I'm on the right lines.

 

[venecol]

Any Bill decision will happen after the season.

I don’t think Kraft will put Bills personal accolades over the state of the franchise if this season does in fact fall off the rails.

Fine but it better be on Black Monday if the season craters. Need to start lining up a HC and a GM before they get snatched up by other teams. No Days Off!

 

[StanleyGrogan]

No but here we are, are we there yet? No but a middling team that’s in 4 years of a rebuild should show some upward momentum. There isn’t any. To get beat like that in the NFL, something here is off.

I don't disagree with you. I just think you may be in for a rough ride if you think this is as bad as things can get. If I have learned anything from watching sports for over half a century, its that things can always get worse...

 

[venecol]

it would be fitting if he was fired and went to team like the Chargers and won the whole damn thing like Brady did. It would be hilarious actually.

There's no NFL HC that has won **** in their 70s. The laws of physics don't cease to exist in Bill's stove.

 

[venecol]

Like I said if the Patriots get blown out of Gillette Stadium next week by the Saints then I really think there will be changes coming and it won’t be pretty.

Saints are scoring <2 ppg more than the Pats. No one is getting blown out next week. Prob. a 13-10 type of game. Saints O sucks as bad as ours, though they do have Kamara back.

 

[btdrnks]

Pretty obvious that Bill needed Brady a lot more than vice versa.

Maybe in a previous era where defense could play defense it would have been the other way around. Not today though. The last 20 years have been the era of offense. It's wonderful having a defensive mastermind and all but how important is that now in today's game? Brady and ONLY Brady was the missing piece that made Bill a complete coach with tools to coach this team to success on both sides of the ball.

Same thing could he said for any great coach. They all miss their great qbs.

 

[lancerman]

Here is the issue
Stallworth and Welker were mediocre and Moss was coming off a 500 yard season.

Same with Hogan and LaFell. **** Julian was a QB coming out of college.

None of those guys except (what we thought was a washed up Moss) ever had a 1k yard season before joining Pats.

Every one of those guys came here and drastically improved because they were talented players who needed a good QB throwing to them.

Bourne is no worse than Stallworth, Welker, or LaFell (at the time of signing). Juju has a 1400 yard season and coming off s 933. Gesicki has had two 700 yard seasons. Parker was another former 1k yard guy.

This is not a bad receiving group. They just look far worse because Mac sucks. If Brady had this group in 2019, they’d almost certainly be a top 5 offense. He would be lighting it up with two talented TEs which would give the WR more room to work. And to have Stevenson and Zeke?

Pats fans just don’t want to hear it but Mac Jones is Zach Wilson with better weapons. He just sucks and has only looked half competent because of the roster and coaches around him (compared to Zach)

Edit- I don’t mean those receivers were mediocre but their stats were. They were all 500-600 yard receivers before joining

You can't compare Moss having a down year on a mediocre Oakland team after breaking 1000 yards 7 out of the 8 previous seasons to any of the guys you mentioned at all. Also lol at Bourne being no worse than Welker. Juju broke 1k exactly once in his career. Last year was his second best year and he was playing with the best QB in the league in an MVP season and the entire defense was focusing on the TE who was playing out of his mind. That's just not a realistic expectation to throw him on here and have him be the primary passing threat and expect the same.

I don't even know why you are talking about Stallworth or Lafell. Stallworth had one 700 yard season with us when he was playing with Moss and Welker. He had better seasons in NO and PHI. He did pretty much what you would expect for his level of production here. Lafell had an up year when he was on the same offense as healthy Gronk and Edelman all year and it was about on par with what he did with Andy Dalton a couple years later. Having 200 more yards than his average in the best offense he was ever in, isn't some crazy abberation.

This is one of the worst receiving corps in the league. It's not even really close. It was almost consistently ranked one of the bottom corps in the league. And frankly, it's largely been middle of the pack in passing this years and outpacing most projections going into the season if you compare it to the rest of the league. 12th in passing yards. Tied for 12th in passing TD's. 20 in passer rating.

You know where the team is really underperforming? Rushing. Bottom 10 in rushing yards. Bottom 5 in yards per carry. Bottom 5 in rushing TD's. 21st in rushing 1st downs.

A team that was supposed to be a defense heavy ground and pound team has one of the most dissapointing running games in the league and it's not particularly close.

 

[Triumph]

I think his play was an embarrassment yesterday, let’s get that out of the way. Can you name some QBs that have been available that could thrive here right now with this roster? I’ll wait.

This debate is so lame.

Because there is no QB available, by default Corky is good to go. Could be worse, right? Furthermore, the NE WRs and TEs are open by NFL standards. They just are not wide open like at Alabama and they are not facing future Footlocker managers as DBs.

Any competent NFL QB just needs to be smart enought to recognize the best option and strong enough to complete the throw which Corky struggles to do unless it's a checkdown.

So, the snake oil blame game continues on. Corky is what he is and that's a back up at best who will be out of the NFL in the near future.

Bottom line is that I was right about Corky all along and you all were wrong.