If you were Kraft and this season doesn’t improve, do you move on from Bill after this season?

[1960Pats]

Yes.. I always look at the "tone" whenever they start games. The tone on the D wasn't good as they just sat back and allowed Dallas to move the ball at will with Gonzo and judon in the lineup.

I kept thinking like you "oh they'll fix the issues " .... I believe yesterday was the realization that we as patriots fans needed to be shown to where exactly this team is at. If this team is serious about even trying to show some pride then do 2 simple things.

1) acquire devante adams
2) start the young guys upfront on defense, and let the veterans substitute.

I think there's something internal going on. Not sure what. I know that Belichick coaches players to show their emotions when a teammate makes a great play but there are signs of that not occurring. It seems like when a great play is made it's only that player who's excited. At least it looked that way vs Dallas on those rare occasions that a great play was made by a Patriot.

Is it me or did they miss a lot of tackles in the flat that they'd normally make? It seemed that way but I don't want to go back and see it again to check.

 

[SteveBsFan]

My biggest complaint with Bill right now was sitting Zappe for a still injured Mac last season.

No, I’m not suggesting Zappe is the answer. But the old Belichick would have stuck with the winner until he couldn’t prove himself anymore. Just like he did with Brady in 2001.

It’s entirely probable Zappe could have prepped as qb1 and **** the bed vs Chicago. That’s fine. But that game should have been Bailey’s to start.

For some reason he just kept trying to make Mac happen. Zappe had a 300yd 2 TD game (118 rating) in his second game. It took Mac 7 games in his rookie season before hitting those numbers.

Like I said I’m no Zappe cheerleader. He very well could also not have what it takes. But the point is the old BB would have kept Zappe going until he proved to suck.

 

[203Pat]

Good luck interacting with businesses as an entitled brat. You'll be shown the door more often than you think outside of big box retailers where front-end employees are hired as fodder.

Oh okay. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Ring 6]

I think there's something internal going on. Not sure what. I know that Belichick coaches players to show their emotions when a teammate makes a great play but there are signs of that not occurring. It seems like when a great play is made it's only that player who's excited. At least it looked that way vs Dallas on those rare occasions that a great play was made by a Patriot.

Is it me or did they miss a lot of tackles in the flat that they'd normally make? It seemed that way but I don't want to go back and see it again to check.

When you are missing your top 4 corners you tend to not get as good cornerback play as the top 4 give you.
Im not sure a lack of celebrating in a brutal loss is something to be concerned about.

 

[Rob0729]

Branding.

Fielding a Super Bowl contender is far more effective branding.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Fielding a Super Bowl contender is far more effective branding.

One's easier to build than the other.

 

[VrabelJr]

My biggest complaint with Bill right now was sitting Zappe for a still injured Mac last season.

No, I’m not suggesting Zappe is the answer. But the old Belichick would have stuck with the winner until he couldn’t prove himself anymore. Just like he did with Brady in 2001.

It’s entirely probable Zappe could have prepped as qb1 and **** the bed vs Chicago. That’s fine. But that game should have been Bailey’s to start.

For some reason he just kept trying to make Mac happen. Zappe had a 300yd 2 TD game (118 rating) in his second game. It took Mac 7 games in his rookie season before hitting those numbers.

Like I said I’m no Zappe cheerleader. He very well could also not have what it takes. But the point is the old BB would have kept Zappe going until he proved to suck.

Zappe vs Mac isn't the same as Brady vs Bledsoe. There were already multiple reports in 01 that Brady looked better in camp than Bledsoe. Not the case at all for Zappe who was considered raw after only playing in an air raid offense.

Brady won four games against a pretty stacked schedule that included the Colts twice and Dolphins. Zappe beat the Lions and Browns.

 

[Ring 6]

I will never understand this mentality. The team owes you. You don't owe them. It is a business and you are the customer.

Explain this one to me.
How does the team owe you? You chose them they didn’t chose you.
But in any event, how does complaining about the success of the team accomplish anything?
You are a vicarious bystander by choice.
After all the success this team has had (more than any fan base was ever given over a similar time frame) why wouldn’t people be patient, mature and reasonable during the inevitable downturn.

We arent taking about a restaurant that didn’t clean up and gave you food poisoning, we are talking about a sports team that competes on an even keel with 31 others trying to accomplish exactly the same thing. None get by without a few dorm years. How that down period is reacted to says a lot more about the fans that the organization

 

[Ring 6]

One's easier to build than the other.

Not according to this board.

 

[Ring 6]

Zappe vs Mac isn't the same as Brady vs Bledsoe. There were already multiple reports in 01 that Brady looked better in camp than Bledsoe. Not the case at all for Zappe who was considered raw after only playing in an air raid offense.

Brady won four games against a pretty stacked schedule that included the Colts twice and Dolphins. Zappe beat the Lions and Browns.

Its a decision based upon hundreds of variables and factors, not the least of which is they are individuals who are all very different from each other, but, you know, in madden once I replace the 82 with a 76 and the 76 ended up better, so why not do it again.

 

[1960Pats]

Good luck interacting with businesses as an entitled brat. You'll be shown the door more often than you think outside of big box retailers where front-end employees are hired as fodder.

What about the idea that customers pay the freight is wrong? The NYFL is one of the best examples imo.

Btw, one of my close friends retired and went to work part time at Lowes. He's the most talented person I know and when folks ask him where things are he'll ask them what they're doing and then tell them what to watch out for. Multiple people have come back to him to thank him for his advice. He's the exception to the fodder folk.

 

[VrabelJr]

What about the idea that customers pay the freight is wrong? The NYFL is one of the best examples imo.

Btw, one of my close friends retired and went to work part time at Lowes. He's the most talented person I know and when folks ask him where things are he'll ask them what they're doing and then tell them what to watch out for. Multiple people have come back to him to thank him for his advice. He's the exception to the fodder folk.

Good on him! My choice of fodder wasn't to represent the people doing the work in the stores, but rather the corporate strategy of putting the people in the stores in between the bizarre policies corporate cooks up.

 

[sb1]

My biggest complaint with Bill right now was sitting Zappe for a still injured Mac last season.

No, I’m not suggesting Zappe is the answer. But the old Belichick would have stuck with the winner until he couldn’t prove himself anymore. Just like he did with Brady in 2001.

It’s entirely probable Zappe could have prepped as qb1 and **** the bed vs Chicago. That’s fine. But that game should have been Bailey’s to start.

For some reason he just kept trying to make Mac happen. Zappe had a 300yd 2 TD game (118 rating) in his second game. It took Mac 7 games in his rookie season before hitting those numbers.

Yeah Mac was clearly not ready to come back in that Bears game therefore he should have sat another game. Then go back to Mac when he was healthy. Don't need to overthink it beyond that.

Zappe has no future in this league in a meaningful role and probably isn't long for the roster anyway. The Pats can and probably will do much better than that for backups if they want to go the distance with Mac in 2023.

 

[VrabelJr]

Its a decision based upon hundreds of variables and factors, not the least of which is they are individuals who are all very different from each other, but, you know, in madden once I replace the 82 with a 76 and the 76 ended up better, so why not do it again.

I will say, the favor of starting Mac due to any sort of draft capital prestige decreases in value as time goes on. We're learning more and more about Mac each week. I don't care who starts I just want to see us win games. If that means Zappe smells blood in the water then so be it.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Bledsoe did not suck. He was just a player out of time. He was a classic seven step drop and huck the ball down the field type of QB that was starting to become obsolete because of the speed of the game. He was a top QB in the late 90s.

BTW, you do realized that Bledsoe was honored by the Bills yesterday for his time there. I don't think they are having a Tyrod Taylor or EJ Manuel Day anytime soon. So the Bills thought Bledsoe was at least somewhat ok.

Bledsoe would have been a top-level HOF QB if he had come out of college in the 1970s. Imagine him on the pre-free agency Raiders. Davis would have loaded up on OL and speed merchants and Bledsoe would have been bombs away for big numbers. But his brain didn't have the processing speed needed to handle 2000s defenses.

 

[1960Pats]

Explain this one to me.
How does the team owe you? You chose them they didn’t chose you.
But in any event, how does complaining about the success of the team accomplish anything?
You are a vicarious bystander by choice.
After all the success this team has had (more than any fan base was ever given over a similar time frame) why wouldn’t people be patient, mature and reasonable during the inevitable downturn.

We are taking about a restaurant that didn’t clean up and gave you food poisoning, we are talking about a sports team that competes on an even keel with 31 others trying to accomplish exactly the same thing. None get by without a few dorm years. How that down period is reacted to says a lot more about the fans that the organization

Doesn't choosing a team to buy tickets and merchandise from make you a customer, just like you are when you choose a restaurant out of all the others?

I can only speak for myself, but I appreciate like mad what the Pats gave me. I've said it here many times that I won't care if we have losing seasons for eternity after the run we had with them. But that doesn't mean that I have to accept the way they've been dumping top talent and not replacing it lately. Those players are who I'm paying to see.

 

[203Pat]

Explain this one to me.
How does the team owe you? You chose them they didn’t chose you.
But in any event, how does complaining about the success of the team accomplish anything?
You are a vicarious bystander by choice.
After all the success this team has had (more than any fan base was ever given over a similar time frame) why wouldn’t people be patient, mature and reasonable during the inevitable downturn.

We are taking about a restaurant that didn’t clean up and gave you food poisoning, we are talking about a sports team that competes on an even keel with 31 others trying to accomplish exactly the same thing. None get by without a few dorm years. How that down period is reacted to says a lot more about the fans that the organization

Without the fans the whole thing ceases to exist. It is the fans who pay to go to the games, buy jerseys and other apparel, buy the various 50 packages the league nickels and dimes everyone on to be able to watch the games. They owe it to us to but something worth watching and supporting out there on the field. Do they owe it to us to win a Super Bowl every single year? No but they owe it to us to try and field a team that is building towards that and this one isn't.

And for the 500th time Andy, if we didn't come on here and talk about the team then why would we even have this site? And with your logic what good does it do complaining about the complaining of the success of the team? You're right I can just stop watching and then I wouldn't have anything to complain about but I still tune in every Sunday hoping for a surprise.

 

[Steve102]

Fielding a Super Bowl contender is far more effective branding.

Right. 100%. But...

Do you think the Rev's care? Folks who spent stupid azz money to see Taylor Swift, or the people that go to the endless other events that aren't the Patriots? The Pats will always be the most important tenant, but they aren't the only tenant. They've been advertising the Army/Navy game for, what, a year? The corporate branding of the stadium reaches far beyond the Patriots on-the-field product, and all those other events help all the shops/restaurants and hotels reap the benefits.

Think much bigger than just the football team.

 

[SteveBsFan]

Yeah Mac was clearly not ready to come back in that Bears game therefore he should have sat another game. Then go back to Mac when he was healthy. Don't need to overthink it beyond that.

Zappe has no future in this league in a meaningful role and probably isn't long for the roster anyway. The Pats can and probably will do much better than that for backups if they want to go the distance with Mac in 2023.

Yea like I said I am not confident Zappe can make it, but damn I have no clue what BB was thinking. It was just very unlike him.

It’s not like playing a proven talent like Brady in a must win game to make playoffs. Zero reason to start Mac that game. That’s when I began to have my doubts about his current abilities as coach.

Love the guy. Can’t say that enough. I’ve read every book on him and would love to see a BB / TB statue erected to honor the two greats. But I no longer feel he can coach his way through roster issues

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I don't agree. Drafting Jimmy produced the best football out of Brady who thrived on people doubting him. You have to draft high with your QB at ages 40, 41, 42.

Yep. After they drafted JG and Brady got benched in the KC debacle suddenly Brady started moving around in the pocket like the old days for the first time since having his knee blown out in 2008. That was no coincidence.