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2022 Patriots Season:
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This has an opening post with good commentary and information, which we definitely recommend reading.

Steve:Section 102

A lion isn't concerned with the opinion of sheep
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I don't buy the receiver isn't looking back argument. A lot of these are timing routes. I've seen so many great passes this season where QBs throw before receivers make their cuts. Mac just isn't releasing the ball, either because he doesn't trust his receivers or himself not to throw a pick. You have to be able to throw into tight windows in the NFL. If he can't or won't, this team isn't going anywhere.
Timing routes aren't based on whether or not the receiver is looking back at him. They are either have not reached the spot where he's reading his first option or he's reading them as not open and moving to second or third option. I'm not saying he's not part of the problem, but he's likely not THE problem as you seem to want him to be. I believe it's a four pronged problem: poor play/route package design, QB not confident in his read, the physical issues @BaconGrundleCandy outlines or chitty play call based on the defense. I believe it's all fixable, but maybe not by Patricia or Judge.
 

LFGMac10

In the Starting Line-Up
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Decision-making is one of his strengths.

Look, I get you don't like Mac but you're trying pretty hard to toss him on the scrap heap. He's been hamstrung this season by poor coaching, a new "system" (if you can call it that) and what has become an OL in constant disarray. Let's see what happens the rest of this season and in next year's training camp before summoning the firing squad.
Hey i was super excited about him, look at my SN. But what I saw was a QB who wilted down the stretch and came out this year and played mistake laden football. It doesn't bode well for his future.

We have another guy who came in and started and put together two 100+ passer rating games back to back. It's not just the system that's killing Mac, one guy was doing great in it. And don't start on the defensive rankings, this is the NFL. Every defense has some if the best athletes in the world in it. He did what he was supposed to do against bad D's. Mac hasn't done that this year.
 

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Hey i was super excited about him, look at my SN. But what I saw was a QB who wilted down the stretch and came out this year and played mistake laden football. It doesn't bode well for his future.

We have another guy who came in and started and put together two 100+ passer rating games back to back. It's not just the system that's killing Mac, one guy was doing great in it. And don't start on the defensive rankings, this is the NFL. Every defense has some if the best athletes in the world in it. He did what he was supposed to do against bad D's. Mac hasn't done that this year.

Here we go again. This "let's find fault with Mac Jones because I like Bailey Zappe" campaign wore thin long ago.

The OL was comparatively settled vs. Cleveland and Detroit, two of the league's worst defenses at the time New England played them. Zappe was scripted from a pared-down playbook. He did a great job while the Patriots defense did its job in support. So how do you think Mac would have performed against those teams? And by the way, Mac just a few days ago had a 104.6 passer rating vs. the Jets, a top-10 ranked defense with arguably the best front seven in football.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

Not the kind of guy to say I told you so ...
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I don't understand all this Dan Orlovsky love. He intentionally spews hyperbole to get attention, including throwing shade at Brady when he was clearly still a top player in the league. I like Mac and I want him to improve because he needs to in order for us to have any chance at going deep in the playoffs. But posters around here clamoring to have Bill O'Brien back (seriously?) or are using Dan Orlovsky's analysis as evidence are in denial.
He's good at what he does but again loves to hear himself talk and is over the top. I could imagine being around that for hours every day.

Like Dan is a lot smarter than me and most people but he's not definitely not a go-to guy.

I'll never forget this gem. I bet he still gets dragged over this 20221122_185142.jpg

"RPO was invented to make zone defense unplayable"
 

Real fan 02

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
That's the one thing that has stood out with Rham - he does seem slow in his cuts. Harris has a lot more explosion.
Stevenson, is the down hill runner, better cut back ability, has the ability to get extra yards, harris is a great off tackle runner, strong and a bruiser, they are both similar backs.. love having this 1-2 punch.. thier talents are being wasted behind the dismal play of the O line..
 

sb1

Hall of Fame Poster
Here we go again. This "let's find fault with Mac Jones because I like Bailey Zappe" campaign wore thin long ago.

The OL was comparatively settled vs. Cleveland and Detroit, two of the league's worst defenses at the time New England played them. Zappe was scripted from a pared-down playbook. He did a great job while the Patriots defense did its job in support. So how do you think Mac would have performed against those teams? And by the way, Mac just a few days ago had a 104.6 passer rating vs. the Jets, a top-10 ranked defense with arguably the best front seven in football.
The Bears game was Zappe's regression to the mean. Same thing happened to Cooper Rush this season and Mike White last season. All 3 of them have in common that there was a QB controversy on their teams and now there isn't.
 

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He's good at what he does but again loves to hear himself talk and is over the top. I could imagine being around that for hours every day.

Like Dan is a lot smarter than me and most people but he's not definitely not a go-to guy.

I'll never forget this gem. I bet he still gets dragged over this View attachment 47565

"RPO was invented to make zone defense unplayable"

Nobody out there is an infallible "go-to guy." Orlovsky isn't always wrong, either. That's why a good rule of thumb is perusing several generally reputable analyst sources and forming one's take from the aggregate plus accrued personal knowledge. I tend to gravitate toward ex-players/coaches plus well-sourced insider journalist types with good track records (Bedard, Breer, Curran, etc.). Locally, I've found Steve Perry emerging as a worthy listen.
 

LFGMac10

In the Starting Line-Up
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Here we go again. This "let's find fault with Mac Jones because I like Bailey Zappe" campaign wore thin long ago.

The OL was comparatively settled vs. Cleveland and Detroit, two of the league's worst defenses at the time New England played them. Zappe was scripted from a pared-down playbook. He did a great job while the Patriots defense did its job in support. So how do you think Mac would have performed against those teams? And by the way, Mac just a few days ago had a 104.6 passer rating vs. the Jets, a top-10 ranked defense with arguably the best front seven in football.
Zappe was not scripted with a parsed down playbook. If anything, it's Mac whose going on a limited playbook. They refuse to put his back to the defense in any real percentage amount of plays. Zappe has no such limitation.

Yes, he did, he also had 0 TD's and 0 INT and is still 4 TD to 7 INT on the season. It's a pathetic stat line 10 games in.
 

LFGMac10

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The Bears game was Zappe's regression to the mean. Same thing happened to Cooper Rush this season and Mike White last season. All 3 of them have in common that there was a QB controversy on their teams and now there isn't.
You mean the game where he didn't really get starting snaps in practice and had a few well timed batted balls that turned the game in the Bears favor.

Where he was in a come from behind situation and had to immediately go down the field for TD's twice after 3, 3 and outs by Mac? That game? Zappe came in and immediately drove thr field twice. With Mac the Patriots haven't had a 1st quarter TD all year. The dude starts slow and ends slow.
 

p8ryts

In the Starting Line-Up
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The Bears game was Zappe's regression to the mean. Same thing happened to Cooper Rush this season and Mike White last season. All 3 of them have in common that there was a QB controversy on their teams and now there isn't.
I think we need to give the Bears coaches some credit at half time for changing up and getting the hands up. Those blocked passes were killers in the second half. One half doesn't mean regression in my mind.
 

sb1

Hall of Fame Poster
You mean the game where he didn't really get starting snaps in practice and had a few well timed batted balls that turned the game in the Bears favor.

Where he was in a come from behind situation and had to immediately go down the field for TD's twice after 3, 3 and outs by Mac? That game? Zappe came in and immediately drove thr field twice. With Mac the Patriots haven't had a 1st quarter TD all year. The dude starts slow and ends slow.
Ok but there's more to a football game than the first 2 drives. I could also say the Bears didn't spend much time preparing for Zappe but it didn't take them long to figure out how to defend him.
 

sb1

Hall of Fame Poster
I think we need to give the Bears coaches some credit at half time for changing up and getting the hands up. Those blocked passes were killers in the second half. One half doesn't mean regression in my mind.
And that's how he's going to be defended from now on.
 

LFGMac10

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And that's how he's going to be defended from now on.
So that's zappe fatal flaw...he'll never be able to change his throwing lane to avoid batted balls moving forward? That's a silly jump. At least with our criticism with Mac we have multiple examples over many games that are consistent
 

LFGMac10

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Ok but there's more to a football game than the first 2 drives. I could also say the Bears didn't spend much time preparing for Zappe but it didn't take them long to figure out how to defend him.
1/2 is not a trend. They figured out something that worked, good QBs go back and fix it for the next game. Mac hasn't fixed any of his issues since the end of last year. We know what we are getting right now with Mac and it's not good.
 

Real fan 02

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
There is a recent article indicating that Nick Caley is in the running for offensive coordinator next year. Why wait? Let MP focus on the OL and see if Caley can help the offense. It can't be worse than what we have now. If it doesn't work bring in BOB next year.
I feel like Matty P is best served in the nick caserio role that he is also currently in. senior football advisor, let Yates continue to get the O line better , absolutely Caley should be calling plays, I just wish BB would name an actual coordinator, get with 2022 NFL standards..
 

Real fan 02

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
In the end, I think, 1) Matt P. is not up to the job, nor is Joe J,, 2) Therefore we cannot know whether Mac is up to the job: his coaches really don't give him a chance of showing what he can do.. This is usually interpreted as an excuse for Mac's very real, empirically demonstrable failings this year. I don't see it that way. I think it is equally likely that once Mac has a decent set of coaches, we might discover that he really isn't a quality starting NFL qb., 3) It is nonsense to ignore that Zappe really has clearly outplayed Mac this year. Was it a reflection of circumstance or a reflection of the fact that Zappe really might be the better quarterback? I think it really might be the latter, and so I think it has been a mistake not to give Zappe a more complete look. I suspect, and expect, that our record will in two or three weeks be bad enough that it will be reasonable to give Zappe a full trial, given that at that point it will be clear (if it is not already) that the Pats are not a team with ANY chance of advancing beyond the first round, if that. Find out about Mac. Then, when it is obvious we have no real shot at doing anything in the playoffs, give Zappe a (legit) shot.

This year is 100% about next year, and it has been all along.
Probably the most accurate account to define this season.. great piece! I'd like to add, we saw under a real scheme, real offensive coaching, adjustments, Mac surpassed expectations last season.

I don't even think as great as he his BB really can explain why the offense was suddenly changed..

Patricia and judge are not offensive coaches, not thier area. Bill was a defensive coach and evolved as we all know. Also I just don't see how we get a win these next gauntlet of games.. we just cannot score.. as great as the D is we know that myles Bryant is going to be picked on and give up some plays..

I'm trying to find optimism, we all say next season cap space is available, but they spent in '21 HH has seemingly been phased out the offense, smith makes a play occasionally , I haven't seen Parker make a catch since the 1st jets game.. due to the failures of the offensive coaching the entire offense is failing.. I'm sure Minnesota is just waiting for us!

I don't see Kraft splurging again..
 

venecol

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Timing routes aren't based on whether or not the receiver is looking back at him. They are either have not reached the spot where he's reading his first option or he's reading them as not open and moving to second or third option. I'm not saying he's not part of the problem, but he's likely not THE problem as you seem to want him to be. I believe it's a four pronged problem: poor play/route package design, QB not confident in his read, the physical issues @BaconGrundleCandy outlines or chitty play call based on the defense. I believe it's all fixable, but maybe not by Patricia or Judge.
I was one of the first to question Bill's decision to have Patricia-Judge running the O. All of us were questioned & berated by the same homers that are now blaming them for Mac's regression.

I'm with Bacon on this, the OL is an issue but there's dozens of sh*tty OLs out there due to injuries a/o lack of depth, yet their QBs aren't at the bottom of the stats lines like Mac is.

People continue to ignore that this offense was created with Mac's strengths in mind. Mac said it himself: they're playing him more out of the gun (what he likes), they're running more RPOs (what he likes). Yet, he has failed to perform. This isn't some sort of agenda to lay all the blame on Mac. He isn't playing well and hasn't for almost a full season now (incl. end of last season).

I think defenses have figured out his limitations and he's playing scared. There are 3 Ds that have now come into games announcing what they're going to force him to do and he's played poorly. Absolutely nobody is scared of Mac Jones as a QB. It is what it is.
 

Real fan 02

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
I was one of the first to question Bill's decision to have Patricia-Judge running the O. All of us were questioned & berated by the same homers that are now blaming them for Mac's regression.

I'm with Bacon on this, the OL is an issue but there's dozens of sh*tty OLs out there due to injuries a/o lack of depth, yet their QBs aren't at the bottom of the stats lines like Mac is.

People continue to ignore that this offense was created with Mac's strengths in mind. Mac said it himself: they're playing him more out of the gun (what he likes), they're running more RPOs (what he likes). Yet, he has failed to perform. This isn't some sort of agenda to lay all the blame on Mac. He isn't playing well and hasn't for almost a full season now (incl. end of last season).

I think defenses have figured out his limitations and he's playing scared. There are 3 Ds that have now come into games announcing what they're going to force him to do and he's played poorly. Absolutely nobody is scared of Mac Jones as a QB. It is what it is.
I feel the entire offense has failed, no team is worry or fearing anything the offense can do.. it's easy to blame Mac however the deepest issues are the coaching and O line play, Mac is doing what he's being coached to do... I don't see how this offense was geared toward his strengths, what he showed last season was geared towards just that.. I can't blame Patricia and judge they are being told what to do just like mac is..

These next few games will telling if we submerge back to the bottom in the standings I fully expect Kraft to interject!
 

venecol

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Like I said, blaming the OL isn't credible when you see much worse ones out there, yet their QBs are performing.

20221123_115647.jpg

Blaming the OC (though he sucks) isn't credible because as Mac stated himself, the O was revised as a collaborative effort taking Mac's input into account. Mac wanted to be let out of the training wheels and show what he could do with concepts he likes. Despite him coming into camp w/ less body fat & training w/ QB throwing guru, he's failed to perform, mainly due to his own limitations. This doesn't mean he can't grow into a better QB but asking for the training wheels to be put back on isn't the answer.
 

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