How confident are you that Jones is "the guy"?

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

He changed his tune this morning.

Lol…his dishonest Cam agenda gets trumped by his dishonest anti-Brady agenda.

 

[sb1]

Completion % doesn’t say as much to me if you’re checking down a lot and playing safe.

He’s 17th in yards and bottom third of the league in TD passes and yards per pass attempt. Soon you have to wonder what the real reason is behind the lack of big plays and attempts at big plays.

It’s not out of the question yet that this is who he really is and this is his ceiling as a QB. And if he’s asked to do more he will be hitting his head against that ceiling. His draft position is not a guarantee of success. Guys like Josh Rosen say hi.

Tough to evaluate him with a bad OL though. Would be nice to find out more once he gets some protection.

 

[jlu52]

270 yds on 31 completions. talk about a pop gun arm

Talk about a ****ty post. The Beam ain't doing your noggin any good, Jimmy

 

[slash83]

Completion % doesn’t say as much to me if you’re checking down a lot and playing safe.

He’s 17th in yards and bottom third of the league in TD passes and yards per pass attempt. Soon you have to wonder what the real reason is behind the lack of big plays and attempts at big plays.

It’s not out of the question yet that this is who he really is and this is his ceiling as a QB. And if he’s asked to do more he will be hitting his head against that ceiling. His draft position is not a guarantee of success. Guys like Josh Rosen say hi.

Tough to evaluate him with a bad OL though. Would be nice to find out more once he gets some protection.

Numbers would be higher if he had time to sit back and actually survey the field. Guys doing a hell of a job given the circumstances of ending up on the ground every other pass play.

 

[Rob0729]

Completion % doesn’t say as much to me if you’re checking down a lot and playing safe.

He’s 17th in yards and bottom third of the league in TD passes and yards per pass attempt. Soon you have to wonder what the real reason is behind the lack of big plays and attempts at big plays.

It’s not out of the question yet that this is who he really is and this is his ceiling as a QB. And if he’s asked to do more he will be hitting his head against that ceiling. His draft position is not a guarantee of success. Guys like Josh Rosen say hi.

Tough to evaluate him with a bad OL though. Would be nice to find out more once he gets some protection.

First of all, when did checking down become a bad thing? Both Brady and Drew Brees have had the reputation of being check down QBs their throughout their careers. Every elite QB checks down. Every good QB checks down. Every bad QB checks down. Back in the early part of the Brady era, the Pats were known for their horizontal passing game where they used the short pass for their running game.

It is how check down that matters. Is Jones just going through his progressions or panicking and just afraid to let play develop and just dumping off the ball or is he not seeing the field and just looking for the easiest throw or is the offensive line not giving him enough time for the play to develop and he is forced to dump off the ball to a safety valve. I would say it is mostly the first one and last one.

Currently Jones has a 6.3 YPA average. You know what Brady's YPA average was in 2002? Yep, 6.3 YPA. In 2019, Brady's YPA average was 6.6. In fact, Brady had six seasons where he had under 7.0 YPA.

Right now, Jones does not have the time to let plays developed. He was pressured 18 times last and 15 times last night. The o-line is failing him. Why can't you acknowledge that?

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Completion % doesn’t say as much to me if you’re checking down a lot and playing safe.

He’s 17th in yards and bottom third of the league in TD passes and yards per pass attempt. Soon you have to wonder what the real reason is behind the lack of big plays and attempts at big plays.

It’s not out of the question yet that this is who he really is and this is his ceiling as a QB. And if he’s asked to do more he will be hitting his head against that ceiling. His draft position is not a guarantee of success. Guys like Josh Rosen say hi.

Tough to evaluate him with a bad OL though. Would be nice to find out more once he gets some protection.

Totally agree, not out of the question.

Mac Jones 2023 Stats per Game - NFL - ESPN

The 2023 NFL season stats per game for Mac Jones of the New England Patriots on ESPN. Includes full stats, per opponent, for regular and postseason.

www.espn.com

He might be good enough, first game in the NFL, to throw for 281 yards @74% completions, and that might be his ceiling. He might be good enough to average 250 yards per game in his first 4 games in the league, and throw for 270 or over in 3 out of 4 games, but that's it.

Question for you: Would it be the normal case, or the outlier, for a guy to come out and look for all the world like an NFL starter as a first-year QB, play a month at that level, and never improve? I mean, it can happen, sure. Those weren't world-beating Ds, and he just tossed his first multi-TD game. But all those things they say happen with experience -- the game slows down for you, and so on -- we have yet to see.

Here's Josh Rosen's first year at Ari. - do you think it's a good comparison?

NFL.com | Official Site of the National Football League

The official source for NFL news, video highlights, fantasy football, game-day coverage, schedules, stats, scores and more.

www.nfl.com

He threw for 270 yards or more oh let's see... zero games (of 13 starts). He threw for 200 yards or more in 4 of 13 games. Completion percentage, 55.2. 12 TD, 19 Int.

Does that look like what we're seeing out of Mac Jones to you? Or are you just saying if all we know is a draft position, people miss in the draft all the time? I mean, yah sure. But do they usually whiff while looking as good as Jones has looked? Because Josh Rosen didn't. Actually, Josh Allen didn't.

Jones is playing like the very rare rookie that truly was NFL ready.

Okay I'm going to shut up because as you say, it's like seeing a football at the bottom of an arc that's about to hit the ground. You don't know where it's bouncing. He COULD be showing off against some weaker teams (and if showing off tops out at 2 TDs, well... it could be a rough year.) But if the small sample we have is indicative of anything, even if this is his ceiling, he's a serviceable NFL QB.

If you ax me, chances are this is not the zenith of his career.

Let's do comps with one more guy just to piss off the Tampa fans

Tom Brady 2001 Game Log | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Get Tom Brady 2001 game log for regular season and playoff games on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

You want 2001.

63.92 completion %. Not bad, but he's no Mac Jones. 18 TD, 12 INT on the season. Through 4 games started, 5 TDs (1 ahead of where Mac is,) although he threw 0 interceptions until his 5th start, a 4-int. effort.

So has he had a good start? Yeah.

If you want to just say, hey, no guarantee, people fall apart all the time, point taken. Indications are positive though. Too many words here saying too few things. feh.

 

[‘Mondre]

Pretty much the guy.

I was thinking earlier today... he needs to stay healthy too. Not sure this has been brought up. If Mac suffers a devastating injury due to our o-line play, we may have a Panthers/Cam-like situation on our hands. Feels like they peaked/burst with Cam (15-1), and injuries, with roster mismanagement, were large factors to their implosion, and everyone skedaddling.

So...

- oline, after we see Brown has played and they have adjusted
- defense in general. Fewer points to surmount, fewer bad "situations" (bill is all about the... situational stuff he brings that up a lot.)

And we'll be fine.

 

[captain insano]

Ok but McDaniels has been here forever through superbowls, now he is bad becuase there is a baby fresh rookie that holds the ball too long?

he holds the ball to long? what game are you watching?

 

[PatsWSB47]

I am feeling more and more comfortable with Jones with more games I see. I am happy about BB's decision even though it did surprise me. I think Newton would do worse with this protection than Jones.

I wish Belichick let him play that 4th and 3 at the end of the game. To quote Bledsoe "Fk that. Go out there and sling it"

 

[ausbacker]

First of all, when did checking down become a bad thing? Both Brady and Drew Brees have had the reputation of being check down QBs their throughout their careers. Every elite QB checks down. Every good QB checks down. Every bad QB checks down. Back in the early part of the Brady era, the Pats were known for their horizontal passing game where they used the short pass for their running game.

It is how check down that matters. Is Jones just going through his progressions or panicking and just afraid to let play develop and just dumping off the ball or is he not seeing the field and just looking for the easiest throw or is the offensive line not giving him enough time for the play to develop and he is forced to dump off the ball to a safety valve. I would say it is mostly the first one and last one.

Currently Jones has a 6.3 YPA average. You know what Brady's YPA average was in 2002? Yep, 6.3 YPA. In 2019, Brady's YPA average was 6.6. In fact, Brady had six seasons where he had under 7.0 YPA.

Right now, Jones does not have the time to let plays developed. He was pressured 18 times last and 15 times last night. The o-line is failing him. Why can't you acknowledge that?

Fantasy Football ****ery has infected the sport so much so every play has to be all or nothing rather than making smart football plays.

 

[Rob0729]

Totally agree, not out of the question.

Mac Jones 2023 Stats per Game - NFL - ESPN

The 2023 NFL season stats per game for Mac Jones of the New England Patriots on ESPN. Includes full stats, per opponent, for regular and postseason.

www.espn.com

He might be good enough, first game in the NFL, to throw for 281 yards @74% completions, and that might be his ceiling. He might be good enough to average 250 yards per game in his first 4 games in the league, and throw for 270 or over in 3 out of 4 games, but that's it.

Question for you: Would it be the normal case, or the outlier, for a guy to come out and look for all the world like an NFL starter as a first-year QB, play a month at that level, and never improve? I mean, it can happen, sure. Those weren't world-beating Ds, and he just tossed his first multi-TD game. But all those things they say happen with experience -- the game slows down for you, and so on -- we have yet to see.

Here's Josh Rosen's first year at Ari. - do you think it's a good comparison?

NFL.com | Official Site of the National Football League

The official source for NFL news, video highlights, fantasy football, game-day coverage, schedules, stats, scores and more.

www.nfl.com

He threw for 270 yards or more oh let's see... zero games (of 13 starts). He threw for 200 yards or more in 4 of 13 games. Completion percentage, 55.2. 12 TD, 19 Int.

Does that look like what we're seeing out of Mac Jones to you? Or are you just saying if all we know is a draft position, people miss in the draft all the time? I mean, yah sure. But do they usually whiff while looking as good as Jones has looked? Because Josh Rosen didn't. Actually, Josh Allen didn't.

Jones is playing like the very rare rookie that truly was NFL ready.

Okay I'm going to shut up because as you say, it's like seeing a football at the bottom of an arc that's about to hit the ground. You don't know where it's bouncing. He COULD be showing off against some weaker teams (and if showing off tops out at 2 TDs, well... it could be a rough year.) But if the small sample we have is indicative of anything, even if this is his ceiling, he's a serviceable NFL QB.

If you ax me, chances are this is not the zenith of his career.

Let's do comps with one more guy just to piss off the Tampa fans

Tom Brady 2001 Game Log | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Get Tom Brady 2001 game log for regular season and playoff games on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

You want 2001.

63.92 completion %. Not bad, but he's no Mac Jones. 18 TD, 12 INT on the season. Through 4 games started, 5 TDs (1 ahead of where Mac is,) although he threw 0 interceptions until his 5th start, a 4-int. effort.

So has he had a good start? Yeah.

If you want to just say, hey, no guarantee, people fall apart all the time, point taken. Indications are positive though. Too many words here saying too few things. feh.

Yeah, I don't get the Mac Jones detractors and doubters. They act like he has definitely hit his ceiling and has nowhere to go from there. I know Alabama has a reputation of their draft prospects being finished products and don't really dramatically improve over time in the NFL and of course that Alabama doesn't produce good QBs. I would say the former usually applies to multi-year starters who have developed over time in Bama. And it wasn't until 2014 that Alabama adopted a pro-style offense. So, I don't know have a great sample size of QBs being only AJ McCarron, Jalen Hurts (sorta since he lost his starting job and went to Oklahoma), Tua, and Mac Jones would apply.

I think the Josh Rosen comparison is a bit unfair since Jones has played better than Rosen's rookie year thus far. And funny, a lot of people on this board wanted the Pats to trade Arizona for Rosen when they put him on the block after drafting Murray and then groom Rosen as possibly Brady's eventual replacement.

 

[Rob0729]

Pretty much the guy.

I was thinking earlier today... he needs to stay healthy too. Not sure this has been brought up. If Mac suffers a devastating injury due to our o-line play, we may have a Panthers/Cam-like situation on our hands. Feels like they peaked/burst with Cam (15-1), and injuries, with roster mismanagement, were large factors to their implosion, and everyone skedaddling.

So...

- oline, after we see Brown has played and they have adjusted
- defense in general. Fewer points to surmount, fewer bad "situations" (bill is all about the... situational stuff he brings that up a lot.)

And we'll be fine.

I think one way or another, the Pats will figure out their o-line problems. Whether it is Trent Brown coming back, trading for a player, and/or a wholesale line up change; this o-line will get better. It may never be good, but Jones won't be pressured 15-18 times a game.

Also, teams are developing a book on Jones and they are going to look at last night and see that the Bucs threw every blitz imaginable at Jones and Jones wasn't rattled and was pretty effective under pressure. So teams will likely look for other ways to attack him than a lot of pass rush pressure. We are still in the best way to rattle a rookie QB is constantly put pressure and knock him on his ass phase of how teams game plan for Jones.

 

[bormio]

I love all the Jones doubters. That sh*t fuels him. Was told he’d never see the field at Bama. Hope the detractors keep it up.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Pretty much the guy.

I was thinking earlier today... he needs to stay healthy too. Not sure this has been brought up. If Mac suffers a devastating injury due to our o-line play, we may have a Panthers/Cam-like situation on our hands. Feels like they peaked/burst with Cam (15-1), and injuries, with roster mismanagement, were large factors to their implosion, and everyone skedaddling.

So...

- oline, after we see Brown has played and they have adjusted
- defense in general. Fewer points to surmount, fewer bad "situations" (bill is all about the... situational stuff he brings that up a lot.)

And we'll be fine.

Yeah, it's worrisome. I don't like to wool-gather all the way to second-order effects of a devastating injury... but point taken. In addition to a lot of other things that went the right way for Brady in the football lottery, it turned out he was tough and/or lucky for a long time, that one year notwithstanding. We all run around thinking our guy will be there, and argue whether he'll be good... it might be a good idea not to get him broken....

Yeah, I don't get the Mac Jones detractors and doubters. They act like he has definitely hit his ceiling and has nowhere to go from there. I know Alabama has a reputation of their draft prospects being finished products and don't really dramatically improve over time in the NFL and of course that Alabama doesn't produce good QBs. I would say the former usually applies to multi-year starters who have developed over time in Bama. And it wasn't until 2014 that Alabama adopted a pro-style offense. So, I don't know have a great sample size of QBs being only AJ McCarron, Jalen Hurts (sorta since he lost his starting job and went to Oklahoma), Tua, and Mac Jones would apply.

I think the Josh Rosen comparison is a bit unfair since Jones has played better than Rosen's rookie year thus far. And funny, a lot of people on this board wanted the Pats to trade Arizona for Rosen when they put him on the block after drafting Murray and then groom Rosen as possibly Brady's eventual replacement.

Yeah, I think it's fair to say he's doing this as well as he could be doing it at this phase. I did not know that people thought Rosen could be The Guy. I forgive the 20-somethings. 20-something Pats fans have to be spoiled. Good for the ones who stick around. But grown-*** (old) men running around acting entitled to a second coming of Brady? And for that matter, wanting to denigrate it when, at least by the numbers, it looks like they couldn't ask for a better Brady analog? Come on man.

 

[Joker]

 

[Uptown]

That was a tight games where jones needed to be perfect,he wasn't. There are always things that could be improved, and his performance when things break down is one of them. He made a lot of great throws, but threw a pick. He'll get better no doubt, but I wanna see no int when things are this tight. I also blame Bill for not going for it.

Of course Mac needs to clean some things up, but he’s a rookie. That being said, he looked damn good outside of a few mishaps. The kid has NO protection or running game AT ALL (-1 rushing yards/ 14 QB hits/ 4 sacks). Also, on the INT; the OL broke down (what else is new ) & the ball was tipped by Agholor. Again, how is this Mac’s fault..?..

 

[DarrylS]

Lots of stats floating around, but I trust my eyeballs more than anything else. What I see is a young, intelligent hard working QB with sufficient skills to continue to improve to the point where he will become elite.

At the end of any game it is about "moving the chains" & scoring points, on Sunday nite he did that well. The Pats had 20 1st downs with a TOP of 26:05, the Bucs had 22 1st downs with a TOP of 33.55.

 

[bormio]

Lots of stats floating around, but I trust my eyeballs more than anything else. What I see is a young, intelligent hard working QB with sufficient skills to continue to improve to the point where he will become elite.

At the end of any game it is about "moving the chains" & scoring points, on Sunday nite he did that well. The Pats had 20 1st downs with a TOP of 26:05, the Bucs had 22 1st downs with a TOP of 33.55.

Tampa had a legit rushing attack. But your first point is correct. It is just I feel he will do exactly that. As I believe the Patriots coaches and players do as well.

 

[long distance]

What I see is a young, intelligent hard working QB

smart & fearless - that takes QB a long way

 

[bormio]

The new catchphrase about Jones is “low ceiling”. In 15 years I wonder is some reporter will ask 4-time Super Bowl champ Mac Jones about it