Guregian on the Gronk/Belichick "beef".

[Kontradiction]

Just FYI in the most current QuickSlants (podcast) episode Perry and Curran both are on the record that Gronk looked embarrassing during the early portions of camp. According to Curran Gronk even confirmed that wording during their December interview. Our TE was getting pancaked during run blocking consistently.

And this ended up on the lowlights tape that the players all get to see each morning of camp. BB chewed Gronk out over this.

I fail to see what BB did wrong. You have a TE that was the best blocker and receiving option in the league for many years. He changes his entire approach to strength training and suddenly becomes useless in blocking. Criticizing that new way is absolutely fair game.

Now I also get Gronks initial frustration over it because reportedly he felt a lot better physically and thought that he was still transitioning to get back to being himself. But he has to understand that the bottomline is that there was never any guarantee that he would actually return to being his dominant self using only the Guerrero bands and whatever weight work he allows. And the coaching staff has to manage the full team and do what is best for this entire group and not just the feelings of a single player.

As we have been discussing for 4-5 months now this entire Guerrero thing is all about authority. People around here seem to focus too much on that "he is a quack" angle or how it all works for Brady.

And to get back to the QuickSlants episode (which is absolutely worth a listen).. Mayo said that you can't possible do both: the classic BB/Cabrera weight approach and the Guerrero bands approach at the same time with a full buy in. And if you see your 9M TE getting pancaked during runblocking repeatedly after he changed his routine away from the classic way which you have been preaching forever you will bring this up.

And then Gronk ended up being right and B.B. being wrong. No question about that. The guy was coming off of a back surgery. Whatever way you feel aboulike Guerrero, we’re not exactly talking about something that was a walk in the park.

 

[tom444]

So do you throw out the baby with the bathwater? How do you know where one thing ends and another begins?

As it is, although Gronk began TC poorly, he ended the season on a high note and his highlight catches are stuff he would not have done without an increased degree of flexibility.

And just so you know, that ******** claim about drinking water to avoid sunburn comes from the ESPN profile on Brady.

Yes, that's right. ESPN.

As in the same ESPN with a personal vendetta against Brady.



Beautiful tenderloins? ************ almighty.

"Every day, he wakes up at 6 in the morning and immediately drinks 20 ounces of purified water, augmented with TB12 electrolytes, which, as he tells us, contain the "72 trace minerals" generally lost in perspiration. As a result, he says, he is so well-hydrated that "even with adequate exposure to the sun, I won't get sunburned," and he presumes that the muscles under his skin look like "beautiful tenderloins" instead of "shriveled jerky."




Clearly you can't argue with his results, but lets face it, Tom's a bit strange. Not as strange as "XLIX", but strange none the less.

 

[PP2]

"Every day, he wakes up at 6 in the morning and immediately drinks 20 ounces of purified water, augmented with TB12 electrolytes, which, as he tells us, contain the "72 trace minerals" generally lost in perspiration. As a result, he says, he is so well-hydrated that "even with adequate exposure to the sun, I won't get sunburned," and he presumes that the muscles under his skin look like "beautiful tenderloins" instead of "shriveled jerky."




Clearly you can't argue with his results, but lets face it, Tom's a bit strange. Not as strange as "XLIX", but strange none the less.

One more time: It's ESPN making him out to be far more kooky and stranger than he really is.

 

[Triumph]

Hitting up a meth wake and bake again, are we?

Yup, and curious why BB would make an example of Gronk in front of the team for receiving treatment by Guerrero. You have told that Gronks actions are not conflicting with the NE training staff. And, why would BB be against the TB12 treatment if it did not effect Gronks play. Some would actually tell you Gronk improved through TB12. You have told us that his blocking is great, so that cannot be the reason.

The whole team including BB and Kraft should be on TB12. You as well.

 

[Triumph]

Gronk looked way too light last season.

Ryan "Thin Man" Mallet section in the clothes store.

I need to go back and look, but years past when Gronk had the ball he would trample over tacklers like a bulldozer.

 

[luuked]

And then Gronk ended up being right and B.B. being wrong. No question about that. The guy was coming off of a back surgery. Whatever way you feel aboulike Guerrero, we’re not exactly talking about something that was a walk in the park.

BB was not wrong about it when he made his statement during camp. He was right as Gronk was apparently not able to do any consistent run blocking. You don't hear Gronk or anyone complaining about BB or anyone else bringing this up after the season started because he gradually got better.

All of this has to be seen in context. And at the point where Gronk was put in front of the team he was apparently in laughably bad shape for what is required from a TE. He should be able to realize that nobody was attacking him on a personal level but simply the fact that for 4-5 weeks it looked like he could be done and that it was connected to his new approach.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yup, and curious why BB would make an example of Gronk in front of the team for receiving treatment by Guerrero. You have told that Gronks actions are not conflicting with the NE training staff. And, why would BB be against the TB12 treatment if it did not effect Gronks play. Some would actually tell you Gronk improved through TB12. You have told us that his blocking is great, so that cannot be the reason.

The whole team including BB and Kraft should be on TB12. You as well.

That’s the million dollar question. Gronk’s play wasn’t affected. What he was doing worked. Unless you can point out a specific area in which Gronk’s play was negatively affected throughout the entire season, this discussion is pretty pointless.

BB was not wrong about it when he made his statement during camp. He was right as Gronk was apparently not able to do any consistent run blocking. You don't hear Gronk or anyone complaining about BB or anyone else bringing this up after the season started because he gradually got better.

All of this has to be seen in context. And at the point where Gronk was put in front of the team he was apparently in laughably bad shape for what is required from a TE. He should be able to realize that nobody was attacking him on a personal level but simply the fact that for 4-5 weeks it looked like he could be done and that it was connected to his new approach.

I am looking at it in context. Gronk was coming off of a back surgery. It stands to reason that his play coming out of the Gates was not up to snuff. It got there and then some and he was the same dominant TE that we’re used to seeing. Therefore, BB ended up being wrong and Gronk ended up being right.

 

[Off The Grid]

I need to go back and look, but years past when Gronk had the ball he would trample over tacklers like a bulldozer.

Yes...Except when they'd hit'm low and his overly-tight frame would once again produce an injury that would cost'm the rest of the Playoffs, again...and cost us another Super Bowl...again. Ironically, we lost'm again last year and his presence yet again would've certainly won us the Super Bowl...but that particular injury was incidental.

Incidental.

Even so: There are two legitimate sides to the argument ~ I wouldn't deny it.

But my money is and always has been on Core Power + Flexibility over straight-line, rigid, inflexible Power. I believe that that, relentless aquatic intake, and sleep are the three most decisive factors in Brady's prolonged success. "Pliability" is a strange term, but if it's meant to suggest a combination of Core Power and Flexibility, count me in.

I believe that Kong is very, very smart to take this approach ~ one that I'd been advocating for years ~ and that if he ends up shocking everyone and playing until he's 36 or even beyond, it'll be because he embraced this approach. Before this year, I went into every campaign considering him 50/50 at best to be around when we needed'm most.

 

[luuked]

That’s the million dollar question. Gronk’s play wasn’t affected. What he was doing worked. Unless you can point out a specific area in which Gronk’s play was negatively affected throughout the entire season, this discussion is pretty pointless.

I am looking at it in context. Gronk was coming off of a back surgery. It stands to reason that his play coming out of the Gates was not up to snuff. It got there and then some and he was the same dominant TE that we’re used to seeing. Therefore, BB ended up being wrong and Gronk ended up being right.

I dont see an angle were BB is wrong about anything in this entire situation.

Gronk was reportedly pathetic during camp and it showed early in the season. This is what BB was criticizing in at least one of those daily "lowlights" sessions. And this is BBs job. If someone shows up to camp (and is cleared to full contact practice !!) but is physically not up to par then you either get rid of him or push his buttons to the point where he grinds away. In this case the entire thing was taken out of BBs hand because Gronk decided to go against the 40ys of experience in terms of TE strength and conditioning and go 100% Guerrero. By doing this he put the spotlight on himself when he could not deliver any consistent blocks in July/August/early September.

Nobody had any issue with him working with Guerrero when his body finally caught up at some point before midseason. The entire thing is a issue that was restricted to training camp and some of the early season but for some reason Gronk was not able to get over it throughout the entire season.

From my point of view they need to either try again to incorporate Guerrero into an official position or start fining/cutting players that ignore what Moses & co are saying because Guerrero prescribes something else. Trying to meet in the middle has evidently not been working and just created more internal chaos.

 

[Kontradiction]

I dont see an angle were BB is wrong about anything in this entire situation.

Gronk was reportedly pathetic during camp and it showed early in the season. This is what BB was criticizing in at least one of those daily "lowlights" sessions. And this is BBs job. If someone shows up to camp (and is cleared to full contact practice !!) but is physically not up to par then you either get rid of him or push his buttons to the point where he grinds away. In this case the entire thing was taken out of BBs hand because Gronk decided to go against the 40ys of experience in terms of TE strength and conditioning and go 100% Guerrero. By doing this he put the spotlight on himself when he could not deliver any consistent blocks in July/August/early September.

Nobody had any issue with him working with Guerrero when his body finally caught up at some point before midseason. The entire thing is a issue that was restricted to training camp and some of the early season but for some reason Gronk was not able to get over it throughout the entire season.

From my point of view they need to either try again to incorporate Guerrero into an official position or start fining/cutting players that ignore what Moses & co are saying because Guerrero prescribes something else. Trying to meet in the middle has evidently not been working and just created more internal chaos.

You’re trying to make this much harder than it is in an attempt to excuse BB. It’s pretty simple.

1. According to the report, he criticized Gronk’s training regimen early in camp.

2. Gronk rounded into form and was the same dominant TE we’ve seen previously.

3. Therefore, BB was wrong in criticizing Gronk’s training regimen.

Like I said, whatever you believe about Guerrero, what Gronk was doing worked. And this isn’t the first time the team or the fans have criticized how Gronk trains when coming back from an injury just to have it blow up in their faces when he rounds back into form. See the forearm injury and the ACL tear previously. There were similar threads back then, but they just didn’t include Guerrero. I love BB as a coach, but he IS wrong from time to time, you know. He’ll even admit as much himself. This was, quite clearly, one of those times. I suspect they’ll either bury the hatchet (if they haven’t already) or Gronk will be moved.

 

[luuked]

You’re trying to make this much harder than it is in an attempt to excuse BB. It’s pretty simple.

1. According to the report, he criticized Gronk’s training regimen early in camp.

2. Gronk rounded into form and was the same dominant TE we’ve seen previously.

3. Therefore, BB was wrong in criticizing Gronk’s training regimen.

Like I said, whatever you believe about Guerrero, what Gronk was doing worked. And this isn’t the first time the team or the fans have criticized how Gronk trains when coming back from an injury just to have it blow up in their faces when he rounds back into form. See the forearm injury and the ACL tear previously. There were similar threads back then, but they just didn’t include Guerrero. I love BB as a coach, but he IS wrong from time to time, you know. He’ll even admit as much himself. This was, quite clearly, one of those times. I suspect they’ll either bury the hatchet (if they haven’t already) or Gronk will be moved.

You are looking at it all with hindsight.

Everything BB had to go on was a) that Gronk was medically cleared for full contact practices and b) he was physically in such a bad shape that he was consistently pushed to the ground in situation where he had been dominant his entire career.

At that point he chewed him out. Rightly so. Just because 8 weeks later everything finally started to come together doesn't excuse his shape at camp. If he was too weak for those practices due to the back surgery he would not have been cleared for full contact practices.

The facts are that:

• Gronk performed pathetically
• BB called him out for it
• Gronk got better (while staying with Guerreros plan)
  
• Gronk still was angry that he got rightfully called out for something

Not sure where BB made a mistake.

 

[Kontradiction]

You are looking at it all with hindsight.

Everything BB had to go on was a) that Gronk was medically cleared for full contact practices and b) he was physically in such a bad shape that he was consistently pushed to the ground in situation where he had been dominant his entire career.

At that point he chewed him out. Rightly so. Just because 8 weeks later everything finally started to come together doesn't excuse his shape at camp. If he was too weak for those practices due to the back surgery he would not have been cleared for full contact practices.

The facts are that:

• Gronk performed pathetically
• BB called him out for it
• Gronk got better (while staying with Guerreros plan)
  
• Gronk still was angry that he got rightfully called out for something

Not sure where BB made a mistake.

Well in that case either one or two truths exist. Either that BB was wrong or he was an idiot. Because only an idiot would expect a guy coming back from back surgery, playing possibly the most grueling in the entire league, to come back at the top of his game. I prefer to believe the most logical thing - that he ended up being wrong. Perhaps in the future he’ll take this situation into account when assesses one of his guy’s training methods.

 

[lancerman]

I don’t know what’s worse. Hearing all these rumors swirl all off season or the snowflakes who whine like little girls about the threads being made about it because they are to fragile to handle hearing criticism of the team or coach or players.

 

[luuked]

Well in that case either one or two truths exist. Either that BB was wrong or he was an idiot. Because only an idiot would expect a guy coming back from back surgery, playing possibly the most grueling in the entire league, to come back at the top of his game. I prefer to believe the most logical thing - that he ended up being wrong. Perhaps in the future he’ll take this situation into account when assesses one of his guy’s training methods.

Given that he did nothing wrong no need to adjust anything. In fact, I certainly hope he keeps calling out players that underperform or are not in the expected shape in exactly the same way.

 

[tom444]

One more time: It's ESPN making him out to be far more kooky and stranger than he really is.

We've all been watching him for 18 years I don't need ESPN to know if he's a bit odd or not. I love the guy, and what he has done, but a lot driven people are a bit odd, and he's as driven as you can get.

 

[Kontradiction]

Given that he did nothing wrong no need to adjust anything. In fact, I certainly hope he keeps calling out players that underperform or are not in the expected shape in exactly the same way.

Except he did. He assumed that a guy coming back from a back surgery would be in tip top shape. When that assumption was wrong, he chose to criticize said player’s training methods. He ended up wrong there as well as the passage of time and Gronk’s subsequent performance on the field has shown.

 

[Love The Drake]

Except he did. He assumed that a guy coming back from a back surgery would be in tip top shape. When that assumption was wrong, he chose to criticize said player’s training methods. He ended up wrong there as well as the passage of time and Gronk’s subsequent performance on the field has shown.

Or maybe he knew questioning Gronks toughness would piss him off and maybe hes ok with that because when Gronk is angry even at his coach he balls out.
Then besides Gronk *****ing BB is a genius.

 

[Kontradiction]

Or maybe he knew questioning Gronks toughness would piss him off and maybe hes ok with that because when Gronk is angry even at his coach he balls out.
Then besides Gronk *****ing BB is a genius.

I think you’re assuming he’s more Machiavellian than he is. I think it’s as simple as BB not caring about whether he was right or wrong in his criticism because that’s just the way he does things. In this case, he was wrong and will simply move on. As I said before, I would suspect this situation to be squashed by the time camp rolls around, if it hasn’t been already.

 

[Deus Irae]

Given that he did nothing wrong

 

[PP2]

Well, Edelman has thrown down the gauntlet as well. We know which camp he is in, now.