Gordon Hayward signing 4 yr max contract with Celtics

[borg]

I am all for this new, more balanced offense that appears on paper to be less dependent on Boston guards to carry the offense. And as quality as Bradley is, he is a smallish shooting guard who will never be a primary piece on a team with championship aspirations, IMO. Factor in his contract status, injury propensity, and the reality that the Celtics were getting blown out by 25+ by Cleveland….the C's needed to think more offensive and a hard decision had to be made

Looking at the big picture, Boston depth is sorely lacking in NBA experience now and this may very well be their achilles this season. A roster filled out with many from this group : Zizic, Nader, French Panda, Tatum…. plus Brown and Rozier. Then add in one or two high draft picks next year…….no doubt, Boston has a different bench construction strategy then league powers who value experienced/proven vets.

 

[Jackson 2]

I think Bradley will really be missed. I believe that the reasons he's gone are 1) $ cleared for Heyward, 2) next year money-wise it would have to be either him or IT, not both and 3) he was clearly the most attractive to others among him, Smart and Crowder. I think he has been under-rated by lots of C's fans.

 

[primetime]

And as quality as Bradley is, he is a smallish shooting guard who will never be a primary piece on a team with championship aspirations, IMO.

He wouldn't be a primary piece on a team with championship aspirations. He's a Sixth Man of the Year on the Cavs, though, and that's still the difference between the Celtics and Cavs.

 

[borg]

He wouldn't be a primary piece on a team with championship aspirations. He's a Sixth Man of the Year on the Cavs, though, and that's still the difference between the Celtics and Cavs.

No championship caliber team in the next few years could afford a 4th piece costing $20 mill/year….certainly not the Cavs or GS. Houston would steer clear because they are flush with max guards.
If we are playing with pretend money, then your scenario might come true. Boston….playing with real money….just shed him.

 

[jah]

No.

You hate Manning and Lebron because you're a Patriots and Celtics fan (I'm assuming) and those two have been the biggest rivals to your favorite teams througout their careers, simple as that.

If Manning was the Patriots QB and Lebron played for the Celtics the majority of his career, theres zero chance you'd be saying those things or finding them obnoxious. This fan base would absolutely tear Brady apart if he had played for any other team and had the same success. You'd be complaining about the media love he gets, him being an overrated system QB, seeming like a ****y jerk with his glamorous lifestyle, calling him a crybaby for yelling to the refs whenever he gets hit, etc

This is stupid. Lots of fans of other teams don't even believe in this crap, especially after the SB. The media love and being a douchebag in real life are true, but everyone who actually follows the NFL rationally knows how important (and tough) he is as a player.

 

[Bartmac36]

This is stupid. Lots of fans of other teams don't even believe in this crap, especially after the SB. The media love and being a douchebag in real life are true, but everyone who actually follows the NFL rationally knows how important (and tough) he is as a player.

Key word there being rationally. If you think the majority of sports fans view this stuff rationally then you are sadly mistaken, and that includes this board

 

[Deus Irae]

I am all for this new, more balanced offense that appears on paper to be less dependent on Boston guards to carry the offense. And as quality as Bradley is, he is a smallish shooting guard who will never be a primary piece on a team with championship aspirations, IMO. Factor in his contract status, injury propensity, and the reality that the Celtics were getting blown out by 25+ by Cleveland….the C's needed to think more offensive and a hard decision had to be made

Looking at the big picture, Boston depth is sorely lacking in NBA experience now and this may very well be their achilles this season. A roster filled out with many from this group : Zizic, Nader, French Panda, Tatum…. plus Brown and Rozier. Then add in one or two high draft picks next year…….no doubt, Boston has a different bench construction strategy then league powers who value experienced/proven vets.

He wouldn't be a primary piece on a team with championship aspirations. He's a Sixth Man of the Year on the Cavs, though, and that's still the difference between the Celtics and Cavs.

Gordon Hayward isn't any more a primary piece on a team with championship aspirations than Avery Bradley. In the NBA, there are the Elites/Unicorns, and there is everyone else. For example:

Curry - unicorn
Durant - unicorn/elite
LeBron - unicorn/elite
Bradley, Thomas, Horford, Hayward, every other player on the Celtics (as of now) = everyone else

edit: I love the people disagreeing with NBA history. Don't you people ever change.

 

[captain insano]

look for nader to make the roster this year and play gaurd.

 

[borg]

Gordon Hayward isn't any more a primary piece on a team with championship aspirations than Avery Bradley. In the NBA, there are the Elites/Unicorns, and there is everyone else. For example:

Curry - unicorn
Durant - unicorn/elite
LeBron - unicorn/elite
Bradley, Thomas, Horford, Hayward, every other player on the Celtics (as of now) = everyone else

edit: I love the people disagreeing with NBA history. Don't you people ever change.

 

[Deus Irae]

.

NBA history is NBA history. You win with elite players/unicorns. The exceptions, what few there are, have a bunch of excellent players, not just a primary player or two (see Detroit, 2003-2004 for an example). Boston, right now, is trying to go the route of the exceptions, while hoping that one or more of the draftees develops into an elite player.

Avery is an excellent player. Hayward is an excellent player. Neither are elite, championship impacting, players. There's no shame in that. Those players don't come around all that often.

 

[borg]

Gordon Hayward isn't any more a primary piece on a team with championship aspirations than Avery Bradley. In the NBA, there are the Elites/Unicorns, and there is everyone else. For example:

Curry - unicorn
Durant - unicorn/elite
LeBron - unicorn/elite
Bradley, Thomas, Horford, Hayward, every other player on the Celtics (as of now) = everyone else

edit: I love the people disagreeing with NBA history. Don't you people ever change.

Deux........Weather pending, I'm going to watch Tim Tebow play baseball tonight. If the opportunity arises, I will ask the Messiah of the Southeast to pray for your soul. Fingers crossed
And if the Saintly One is in an especially good mood, I'll try to hook up Andy Johnson as well. Friday is twofer night at Roger Dean Stadium

 

[deroc5050]

I think Bradley will really be missed. I believe that the reasons he's gone are 1) $ cleared for Heyward, 2) next year money-wise it would have to be either him or IT, not both and 3) he was clearly the most attractive to others among him, Smart and Crowder. I think he has been under-rated by lots of C's fans.

The only issue that I have with Bradley and its the same complaint with Crowder and Smart is all of them lack consistency on the offensive side of the court... You cant depend on them at all. 1 night they go off for 30 points the next night they can't buy a basket. Its so frustrating. 2 guys IT and Horford are the only ones that consistently hit there shots. Horford might not get 25 points a night but when he gets his shot opportunities he is money. Now with Hayward we have 3 consistent shooters that can make shots night in and night out.

 

[TommyD4207]

With the surplus of forwards, and lack of a legitimate NBA center

And what mysterious unicorns are these?

 

[Jackson 2]

The only issue that I have with Bradley and its the same complaint with Crowder and Smart is all of them lack consistency on the offensive side of the court... You cant depend on them at all. 1 night they go off for 30 points the next night they can't buy a basket. Its so frustrating. 2 guys IT and Horford are the only ones that consistently hit there shots. Horford might not get 25 points a night but when he gets his shot opportunities he is money. Now with Hayward we have 3 consistent shooters that can make shots night in and night out.

You're right about the offense from Bradley, but what I believe you're minimalizing is his spectacular balls to the walls defense. I know I can count on him for great defense every second? If that's minimal to you, I can't help ya...

 

[patfanken]

I'm reading this stuff about the C's chances to winning a title or even beating Toronto and Cleveland, and I am stunned to read this crap on a Pats fan page. Have we leamed NOTHING from observing the last 18 years and 5 Championships. Isn't one of the great adages that is so often quoted, on these pages "we are not accumulating talent, we are building a TEAM", mean anything? Have the Pats EVER been the most talented squad on the field in any of those championship seasons?

One of the things that I LIKE about Stephens is that he believes in that adage, while it seems like we don't. And while it doesn't hurt to have 3 great players on your team, it doesn't guarantee championships. And granted the importance of proper team building is magnified by the fact there are 22 "starters" on a football team and only 5 in basketball, the same principle still remains.

It's the best TEAM that wins, NOT the best talent. GS won, not because they had some elite players, but its how those players played with the rest of the "non-elite" that got them that banner. The NBA have had a number of teams who went the "all talent" route and failed or didn't quite get there. And by the time SA got on their championship run, they didn't have the greatest talent, but that didn't stop them from winning the occasional championship and being right there for several other seasons.

So I don't know how this version of the C's will eventually end up. But here's what I EXPECT. I expect it to be a well coached, unselfish, try hard team where the sum of the whole will be greater than the individual parts. That being said they are a young and talented squad, so expectations should be high. But like all teams, whether they can build on last season's run, will depend on how all those talented parts fit together. And THAT is something every knowledgeable Pats should already know, given our vast experience and what we've seen the last 2 decades.

 

[BTTA]

Great article that outlines all this in a systematic way, in 538:

Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet.

It makes the point about superstars and titles, while also leaving the door open to how it could happen (and has happened) without one.

 

[Doctor DDS]

Hayward is a good get and is more than capable of being the 2nd or 3rd piece of a championship team if the first piece is a top 5 player in the league and the 4-7 are solid as well. The Spurs model was 1 superstar in Duncan and several next level players (Ginobili, Parker) and Hayward has the ability to fall into that grouping.

And while I like the Hayward signing I still think it is more to set the C's up for the next few years than it is to do anything spectacular this year. Losing Bradley and Olynk will hurt a little this year as I think Brown and Tatum will play more and have some growing pains. They absolutely need someone in the Tatum, Brown,next years picks to turn into a stud. If that does not happen then they'll be stuck right around where they ended last year.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm reading this stuff about the C's chances to winning a title or even beating Toronto and Cleveland, and I am stunned to read this crap on a Pats fan page. Have we leamed NOTHING from observing the last 18 years and 5 Championships. Isn't one of the great adages that is so often quoted, on these pages "we are not accumulating talent, we are building a TEAM", mean anything? Have the Pats EVER been the most talented squad on the field in any of those championship seasons?

One of the things that I LIKE about Stephens is that he believes in that adage, while it seems like we don't. And while it doesn't hurt to have 3 great players on your team, it doesn't guarantee championships. And granted the importance of proper team building is magnified by the fact there are 22 "starters" on a football team and only 5 in basketball, the same principle still remains.

It's the best TEAM that wins, NOT the best talent. GS won, not because they had some elite players, but its how those players played with the rest of the "non-elite" that got them that banner. The NBA have had a number of teams who went the "all talent" route and failed or didn't quite get there. And by the time SA got on their championship run, they didn't have the greatest talent, but that didn't stop them from winning the occasional championship and being right there for several other seasons.

So I don't know how this version of the C's will eventually end up. But here's what I EXPECT. I expect it to be a well coached, unselfish, try hard team where the sum of the whole will be greater than the individual parts. That being said they are a young and talented squad, so expectations should be high. But like all teams, whether they can build on last season's run, will depend on how all those talented parts fit together. And THAT is something every knowledgeable Pats should already know, given our vast experience and what we've seen the last 2 decades.

NBA is different. Star power and health rules 90% of the time. Don't kid yourself . You know this. It's been that way for 60 years.

 

[Jackson 2]

Hayward is a good get and is more than capable of being the 2nd or 3rd piece of a championship team if the first piece is a top 5 player in the league and the 4-7 are solid as well. The Spurs model was 1 superstar in Duncan and several next level players (Ginobili, Parker) and Hayward has the ability to fall into that grouping.

And while I like the Hayward signing I still think it is more to set the C's up for the next few years than it is to do anything spectacular this year. Losing Bradley and Olynk will hurt a little this year as I think Brown and Tatum will play more and have some growing pains. They absolutely need someone in the Tatum, Brown,next years picks to turn into a stud. If that does not happen then they'll be stuck right around where they ended last year.

Respectfully, describing Hayward as a "good get" is so poorly underestimating and evaluating his acquisition as it gets. You're correct in stating that losing Olynick and Bradley will hurt. Particularly, losing Bradley will be significant. But. Ainge is a master talent evaluator, in my opinion, and Stephens is a tremendous coach. The Celtics are far, far, closer to the promised land than most estimate. Of course, if Morris ends up in jail for felony assault, it all goes in the toilet.

 

[scout]

NBA is different. Star power and health rules 90% of the time. Don't kid yourself . You know this. It's been that way for 60 years.

Disagree. The Celtics were pretty good this year because of their coach. Not one player from the Celtics would have started for the Cavaliers. The Celtics of the 60's were not alway the better team. However, they always had the better coach.