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Former Patriot Brandon Browner Arrested for Kidnapping, Four Other Charges


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I’m a lawyer (not criminal though) so take my thoughts with a grain of salt. There’s always a chance the prosecutor could agree to the lesser charge of second degree attempted murder, which is 9 years jail time in California. I agree, based on what we know so far, the attempted murder charge is a bit much. Prosecutors often charge a defendant with multiple crimes in an attempt to later on reduce the charges to the real crime when the defendant asks for a plea deal in exchange for a confession. They’ll act as if they are doing the defendant a big favor.

Yup. Feds especially. Throw 12 charges at a defendant. No way the jury doesn't throw you a bone for at least one of 'em.

More troubling is that "American prosecutors win 99.5 percent of their cases, 97 percent without a trial, because the plea-bargain system extorts inculpatory evidence from witnesses in exchange for reduced sentences or immunity from prosecution, including for perjury, and threatens them with prosecution if they decline to cooperate." That's nearly 100% conviction rate in the USA, not China.

The American Justice System Is Broken | National Review
 
Yup. Feds especially. Throw 12 charges at a defendant. No way the jury doesn't throw you a bone for at least one of 'em.

More troubling is that "American prosecutors win 99.5 percent of their cases, 97 percent without a trial, because the plea-bargain system extorts inculpatory evidence from witnesses in exchange for reduced sentences or immunity from prosecution, including for perjury, and threatens them with prosecution if they decline to cooperate." That's nearly 100% conviction rate in the USA, not China.

The American Justice System Is Broken | National Review
What percentage of all charges that are filed do you figure are people who are really guilty?
I recognize that there are some well known exceptions but for the most part if you are arrested you did it. So their numbers don’t adtound me at all.

I only perused your article but didn’t see how they defined “cases”. My son went to court yesterday for a soeeding ticket and spoke with the prosecutor then plead guilty to a lesser violation. If we include drug possession, shoplifting, disturbing the peace type issues, and traffic violations they probably make up over 90% of the cases. There aren’t wrongly accused people taking pressured plea bargains in those cases.
 
Does it say anywhere how he tried to kill her? Im only seeing he pulled her back into the house.., did he do it with a sabretooth hook???
I imagine it could be as much as saying “if I get my hands on you I’ll kill you, *****” all the way up to actually physically attempting to murder her.
 
What percentage of all charges that are filed do you figure are people who are really guilty?
I recognize that there are some well known exceptions but for the most part if you are arrested you did it. So their numbers don’t adtound me at all.

I only perused your article but didn’t see how they defined “cases”. My son went to court yesterday for a soeeding ticket and spoke with the prosecutor then plead guilty to a lesser violation. If we include drug possession, shoplifting, disturbing the peace type issues, and traffic violations they probably make up over 90% of the cases. There aren’t wrongly accused people taking pressured plea bargains in those cases.

Here's another data point:

America's Justice System Has Failed Us All | HuffPost
But Mr. Webb accurately summarizes some of the problem is America’s incarceration of six to 12 times as many people per capita as other advanced, prosperous democracies (Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Japan, and the United Kingdom). Either, as he wrote in his essay, “Criminal Injustice,” these other countries don’t care about crime, which is nonsense (and they all have lower crime rates than the U.S.), or Americans are uniquely addicted to committing crimes, which is also nonsense, or the American system has broken down. Bingo.

The United States has five per cent of the world’s population, 25 per cent of the world’s incarcerated people, and 50 per cent of the world’s lawyers (who account for nearly 10 per cent of the country’s GDP, an onerous taxation of American society).
 
I’m not sure how that applies to the other piece.
My question revolves around the percentage of convictions.

I’m not sure I have a problem with living in a country that leads the way in punishing crime.

We lead the way in defining things as crimes.
 
We lead the way in defining things as crimes.
I’m not sure how that is the conclusion.
But what crimes do we currently incarcerate people for that you feel are illegitimate?

Perhaps we just lead the way in law enforcement quality?
 
I’m not sure how that is the conclusion.
But what crimes do we currently incarcerate people for that you feel are illegitimate?

Perhaps we just lead the way in law enforcement quality?

So you also believe we lead the world in criminal behavior? There are 65 million people with a criminal record in the U.S. Do you really think that 20% of Americans are criminals?

As for which offenses I do not think are legitimate. Let's see if you can spot anything that stands out here:

bop_offenses.PNG

Source:
BOP Statistics: Inmate Offenses
 
So you also believe we lead the world in criminal behavior? There are 65 million people with a criminal record in the U.S. Do you really think that 20% of Americans are criminals?
It would appear that way. But your phrasing is wrong. 20% May have committed a crime but that doesn’t mean 20% “are criminals”.


As for which offenses I do not think are legitimate. Let's see if you can spot anything that stands out here:

View attachment 20674

Source:
BOP Statistics: Inmate Offenses
Everything on that list, other than a couple that aren’t clear what they mean, certainly appear to me to be laws we should have.
Which are you referring to that you consider poor laws?
 
It would appear that way.


Everything on that list, other than a couple that aren’t clear what they mean, certainly appear to me to be laws we should have.
Which are you referring to that you consider poor laws?

The "War on Drugs" is an unmitigated disaster.
 
The "War on Drugs" is an unmitigated disaster.
So the answer is we shouldn’t have laws against selling or using illegal drugs?

Not putting words in your mouth, so please expand, but it sounds like you are saying we catch so many people on drug offenses so therefore we should make drugs legal.
 
So the answer is we shouldn’t have laws against selling or using illegal drugs?

Not putting words in your mouth, so please expand, but it sounds like you are saying we catch so many people on drug offenses so therefore we should make drugs legal.

Do you honestly think that our drug enforcement regime is working? Millions of people in jail. Civil liberties out the window. Gang warfare in our cities. A civil war in Mexico.

For comparison:

Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

Portugal’s Example: What Happened After It Decriminalized All Drugs, From Weed to Heroin | VICE News
 
I’m not sure how that is the conclusion.
But what crimes do we currently incarcerate people for that you feel are illegitimate?

Perhaps we just lead the way in law enforcement quality?


The "War on Drugs" was the beginning of Mass Incarceration that has been over zealously locking people up and ruining lives. It was also about that time when the militarization of police began

There are people sent to jail for having a joint on them, but can't afford the $500 bail and have to spend MONTHS in jail. Once in the system, other inmates can quickly get you caught up in a ton of stuff that you want absolutely no part of. Doing very quick research, 52% of all drug arrests were for marijuana in 2010.

Our Ju$tice system will also produce much different results based on how much money you have to defend yourself.

- The police make money
- The lawyers make money
- the Judge makes money
- The AG's office makes money and uses the stats to bolster their political ambitions
- Corporations like Marriott make BOAT LOADS of money... the more inmates, the more profit... what a wonderful idea to have For Profit Prisons, there is no way that money could ever create a conflict of interest and steer someone toward doing the wrong thing (lol!)
-Almost forgot, don't forget poor little helpless companies like Amazon (w/ over $400 billion in cash reserves before the big tax cut).. they actually pay inmates like $1/hour for high paying jobs like Programmers/Developers.. so they get to hire labor at a fraction of the minimum wage for their Fortune 500 corporation... Yippee!

There are very serious flaws with our justice system
 
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Do you honestly think that our drug enforcement regime is working? Millions of people in jail. Civil liberties out the window. Gang warfare in our cities. A civil war in Mexico.
You are listing the problems that drugs cause in our society and blaming law enforcement for their existence. Millions of people are in jail because they broke the law. How much worse woildxthr drug problem be if they were on the street?
Unsure what you mean by civil liberties out the window.
Gang warfare isn’t happening because we arrested drug offenders. I’m not sure how issues in Mexico are solved by eliminating laws that put drug offenders in jail. Seems it would get worse.
I think I’ve lost your point. You say we ha e too many laws but we have too much crime.

We will have to agree to disagree that making Narcotics legal is a smart thing.
 
The "War on Drugs" was the beginning of Mass Incarceration that has been over zealously locking people up and ruining lives. It was also about that time when the militarization of police began

There are people sent to jail for having a joint on them, but can't afford the $500 bail and have to spend MONTHS in jail. Once in the system, other inmates can quickly get you caught up in a ton of stuff that you want absolutely no part of. Doing very quick research, 52% of all drug arrests were for marijuana in 2010.

Our Ju$tice system will also produce much different results based on how much money you have to defend yourself.

- The police make money
- The lawyers make money
- the Judge makes money
- The AG's office makes money and uses the stats to bolster their political ambitions
- Corporations like Marriott make BOAT LOADS of money... the more inmates, the more profit... what a wonderful idea to have For Profit Prisons, there is no way that money could ever create a conflict of interest and steer someone toward doing the wrong thing (lol!)
-Almost forgot, don't forget poor little helpless companies like Amazon (w/ over $400 billion in cash reserves before the big tax cut).. they actually pay inmates like $1/hour for high paying jobs like Programmers/Developers.. so they get to hire labor at a fraction of the minimum wage for their Fortune 500 for profit corporation

There are very serious flaws with our justice system
Im going to walk away from this discussion because it will not go well

I’ll just say I disagree with your views but respect your right to have them.
 
You are listing the problems that drugs cause in our society and blaming law enforcement for their existence. Millions of people are in jail because they broke the law. How much worse woildxthr drug problem be if they were on the street?
Unsure what you mean by civil liberties out the window.
Gang warfare isn’t happening because we arrested drug offenders. I’m not sure how issues in Mexico are solved by eliminating laws that put drug offenders in jail. Seems it would get worse.
I think I’ve lost your point. You say we ha e too many laws but we have too much crime.
The black market is the reason why there is gang warfare in the cities and a civil war in Mexico. Try to keep up.

We will have to agree to disagree that making Narcotics legal is a smart thing.

Portugal decriminalized. People now get treatment rather than incarceration. Their addiction rates are falling. Let me know if you want to discuss what is in the best interests of people.
 
The black market is the reason why there is gang warfare in the cities and a civil war in Mexico. Try to keep up.
Are insults really necessary?
If you feel they are I’ll just stop responding.



Portugal decriminalized. People now get treatment rather than incarceration. Their addiction rates are falling. Let me know if you want to discuss what is in the best interests of people.
Portugal isn’t America.
 
More browner details and it doesn’t look good.
This has been going on since October and he keeps going back for more.
■Prosecutors say once Browner was inside he threatened to kill Foster. Browner chased her, dragged her, and attempted to smother her in a carpet. Police also cite Browner as having “physically forced the victim back into her residence’’ when she tried to escape.
What we know Brandon Browner and his attempted murder case | Boston.com
 
There are people sent to jail for having a joint on them, but can't afford the $500 bail and have to spend MONTHS in jail.
Excellent post with lots of good points, but despite popular belief, I don’t believe that your example happens very often, anymore. Maybe at one point, but not really in the past 10-15-20 yrs.

For one thing, most states have decriminalized MJ significantly, but even if they haven’t, there’s still a personal use limitation that is normally hovering around at least an ounce (about 28g), and in certain states like Ohio, you can have almost 1/4 lb before there’s any talk of intent to deliver. The personal use charges for weed are either low level misdemeanors or even summary offenses/tickets, depending upon where you were arrested.

In these cases, even with a high sentencing score for previous crimes, the bond is almost always set at R.O.R./no bond needed, and in the rare cases where this is a small bond like the 500 dollar example given, you can often pay a bondsman 10% to secure the bail for you. Even in the worst case scenario where the defendant doesn’t have any resources whatsoever, they’d be released within weeks at the next step/hearing in the process. Here in PA, you are initially arraigned shortly after arrest, but at that time you’re given a date for the preliminary hearing, which takes place about 10-14 days later. At that point, your bond is often reduced if you’ve remained incarcerated for that 2 week time period, and even if it’s postponed by the prosecution, your public defender would certainly ask for a bond reduction. There aren’t going to be many cases where someone remains locked up for more than a maximum of a week or so when their charge is for nothing more than possessing a joint. Resources are too limited.

Now, I think there are plenty of instances where someone gets caught with as little as a joint and are incarcerated if they’re on probation where they violate, which is certainly an issue, but that’s a different discussion altogether. I think the high majority of that 52% number that you cited is for intent to deliver, actual delivery charges and heavier weight arrests.

As screwed up as the CJ system is, I think we’ve made some good progress with limiting the low level, non-violent offenders, particularly with small amount of marijuana charges. Not meaning to get on a soap box or nitpick your post, which makes some excellent points, but I hear the “we’re locking people up for simply having a joint” argument and it’s just an incorrect popular opinion. If you’re locked up for anything under an ounce of weed, you’re either getting out soon, or there’s more information to your case.
 
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