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Felger goes too far: cherry picks stat ("13% of cap"), ignores context, claims Belichick/Kraft only underpay QBs out of greed...

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Wozzy

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Between 2005-2013 Brady was one of the highest paid QB's in the league, in 2010 they made him the highest paid player in the NFL for a short period... they won zero rings in that time frame.

From 2000-2004 he was paid like a 6th round rookie, from 2014-2019 he took a little less and the team perpetually kicked salary cap debt down the road from his contract and those of their highest paid players, they won 6 rings in that time frame.

If teams want to win multiple rings they should either have a great team surrounding a good rookie QB before his rookie deal ends (Chiefs), or they need a vet QB willing to take a little less and also borrow from future cap space to acquire other players win now (Patriots 2014-2018).
 

Deus Irae

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Casual fans love Felgergarb and think he's insightful. If I try even gently to say that he's not an authority they look at me like I'm crazy.
I generally avoid that show like the plague, but I do sometimes tune in on Bedard days. And the past few weeks of Ordway constantly swabbing Belichick's rump has led to me flipping the stations back and forth, so I've heard more of Felger/Mazz in the past month than I had in the entire 11 months previous.
 

borg

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Why let logic, facts, and informed opinion get in the way of an inflammatory hot take that can be beaten into the ground four hours a day for months?

For example...

A couple years ago Maz made an idiotic claim regarding stolen base % and how the Red Sox blew it the night before based on the misinformation he was pedaling. Aggravated by his ignorance, I called into the Felger & Maz show and explained to both clowns their mistake and they quickly saw the error in their hot take.....and then both attacked me for interrupting Felger as he bloviated other nonsense. (I think my phone # is now blocked by that station)

An hour later, Maz opens up his baseball show with the same ignorant hot take that I corrected him on during his earlier show.
Typical lazy, entrenched Boston media.
 

amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
I don't mind Felger. His discussions are often thought provoking even if I disagree with his positions.
 

Shockt327

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
The percentage portion of the discussion was triggered by a Kraft interview many years ago, where he was talking about how too high a percentage of the cap being paid out to QBs would hamper the ability of a team to bring in talent around him. It was not about greed, or anything of that sort. It was about team building philosophy, and he was questioning whether or not Brady winning down in Tampa would force a change in that philosophy.]

The other part of the Felger commentary was about the Patriots being dead last in actual money paid out to players over the last 5 years. Felger didn't talk about that as a function of greed. He talked about it as a function of a team budget which allows for owners to make a profit, and he was fine with it. What he did was then speculate that the low payout might be because of the alleged high payout to BB as coach/GM being included as part of the overall budget.

So I'd drop the libel portion, and just use the two parts as a pair of at least semi-interstings sub discussions.

But that's just me.

I'm sorry, but that's not the argument he was making yesterday. From the get-go he pointed out how low the Pats paid Brady and openly asked if NE is still going to try and pull this off, now that Brady left NE for more $ and won in Tampa (conviently ignoring that Brady was still under 13% in Tampa).

Yes, he played the Kraft clip (later on in the show), but Felger claimed this logic was all an excuse to keep money from players.

Yes, I'm aware of Felger using the "actual money paid" data in the past. But he didn't use it yesterday. EDIT: Although he vaguely mention Jerry Jones was low in actual spending, but he spun it as if it was proof of how cheap owners were.

BTW - I edited the tile. thank you.
 
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patsfanincleveland

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I'm sorry, but that's not the argument he was making yesterday. From the get-go he pointed out how low the Pats paid Brady and openly asked if NE is still going to try and pull this off, now that Brady left NE for more $ and won in Tampa (conviently ignoring that Brady was still under 13% in Tampa).

Yes, he played the Kraft clip (later on in the show), but Felger claimed this logic was all an excuse to keep money from players.

Yes, I'm aware of Felger using the "actual money paid" data in the past. But he didn't use it yesterday.

BTW - I edited the tile. thank you.

In the end, logic dictates that Cap expensed has to equal money paid over a time period.

What are these guys taking as compensation?

BB autographed hoodies?

Krafty winkers?
 

ctpatsfan77

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trying to telling his audience that Kraft and Belichick only do this out of greed. That's completely ridiculous.
Since the CBA allowed teams to roll over cap space with a single form, when have the Patriots not rolled over 100% of their leftover salary cap? Not doing so means they're not pocketing any of it.
 

50-yard-line

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Why let logic, facts, and informed opinion get in the way of an inflammatory hot take that can be beaten into the ground four hours a day for months?

For example...

A couple years ago Maz made an idiotic claim regarding stolen base % and how the Red Sox blew it the night before based on the misinformation he was pedaling. Aggravated by his ignorance, I called into the Felger & Maz show and explained to both clowns their mistake and they quickly saw the error in their hot take.....and then both attacked me for interrupting Felger as he bloviated other nonsense. (I think my phone # is now blocked by that station)

An hour later, Maz opens up his baseball show with the same ignorant hot take that I corrected him on during his earlier show.
Typical lazy, entrenched Boston media.
Would you believe me if I told you that the Talk Radio format calls for hosts to make factually incorrect (or misread) information ON PURPOSE to coax callers to light up the phone lines?

Because everyone wants to show what they know (like I'm doing here). It feels good - and so, for Talk Radio, also known as Anger Pornography, that translates into ratings and $$$.

Guys like Felger nad Mazz aren't there primarily to inform, but to argue. Their job is to get and keep listeners and they do it by either pimping controversial theories, saying outrageous things, or, ta da, getting some things wrong, usually on purpose.
 

Deus Irae

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I'm sorry, but that's not the argument he was making yesterday. From the get-go he pointed out how low the Pats paid Brady and openly asked if NE is still going to try and pull this off, now that Brady left NE for more $ and won in Tampa (conviently ignoring that Brady was still under 13% in Tampa).

Yes, he played the Kraft clip (later on in the show), but Felger claimed this logic was all an excuse to keep money from players.

Yes, I'm aware of Felger using the "actual money paid" data in the past. But he didn't use it yesterday. EDIT: Although he vaguely mention Jerry Jones was low in actual spending, but he spun it as if it was proof of how cheap owners were.

BTW - I edited the tile. thank you.

I heard every word of his argument. Yes, what I posted is the argument he made. And the Tampa thing is irrelevant to his point, as the issue of Brady getting paid like an elite QB was never an issue for the TB signing.
 

Deus Irae

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"I was just trying to stay ahead of the curve. If we were going to have to pay him elite-quarterback money and have elite-quarterback cap numbers, I just didn't think we would be able to build a team. We don't want to have a team where we're paying 18 to 20 percent to a player on the cap. I wanted to do something elegant that would work for everybody. I had been talking to him off and on for maybe 18 months, about how I wanted him to finish his career here, and about how we both have to be smart about it. I just really want him to end his career a Patriot.''

Peter King: Flacco, Brady on opposite ends of QB contract spectrum
 

reflexblue

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Disclaimer - No, I'm not calling for an actual lawsuit, or anything. Rather, just take a moment to read and ask yourself just who Michael Felger really is...

Anyone listen to Felger yesterday? He was talking about how cheap Brady's contracts have been over the years & and rambled on with his usual shtick about how 'the cap is crap' and even went so far as to speculate that the only reason why Kraft does it is because he's is cheap, and Belichick goes along with it because he wants to keep money away from players since he makes $25 million per yr, and show everyone he that he doesn't need high-paid players to win, etc. Felger even went so far as to claim that the owners across the league are intentionally trying to conspire to keep money away from players. So, he's pushing it. But it's just ignorant speculation, right?

But, Felger cited a very specific and curious benchmark when he discussed Brady's contracts with NE: 13% of the cap.

He said that the only year Brady's cap hit was above 13% of the overall cap was back in 2006. Now this is true. But, what made him specifically cite 13%? I mean, there is very little consistency in the % of Brady's yearly cap hit. One year its 9.9% the next its 6.7% (See the percentages for yourself). So why use that specific percentage? Why use 13%? Oh, wait. I know why. Because, since the very beginning of the salary cap era, the most that a QB has ever been paid, in a Super Bowl winning season, is just 13% of the salary cap. That happened back in 1994 w/ the 49ers & Steve Young. To put it in perspective, 13% of the 2020 cap is just above $25 million. Now I don't expect everyone to know this. But for those who follow the cap, you've probably read about this throughout the years; 13% is widely considered the benchmark among cap-gurus of when a QB is making too much money to field a legit SB winning team. Google it. Go to sites like overthecap.com. This is nothing new. It's been discussed again and again. In fact, it's getting a lot of recent traction due to Dak Prescott & Dallas Cowboys negotiations.

So, back to Felger. I find it ridiculously curious that he specifically brings up 13% of the cap -- only in relation to Brady and NE -- but is seemingly unaware of the entire context in which that 13% benchmark comes from. I mean, does he genuinely not know? Is his use of "13%" a genuine coincidence? Well, remember he specifically, cited the one year when Brady's cap went above 13%. Key word: "above." And again, there's little consistency in Brady's cap hits over the years. So, it's pretty clear he is aware that 13% is used as the line-in-the-sand for when a QB's salary is considered to be too high for a SB win. So, he must know about this. So, again, the data in which 13% comes from is not just a tiny little detail that he forgot to mention. It's the entire crux of the discussion; it's the entire reason why 13% is viewed as such a benchmark. So, there's no way he's citing this info and not aware of where it comes from. There's just no way.

Now, here's the ugly part. With this in mind, when Felger tries to speculate on just what the motivation is as to why Kraft and Belichick keep the QB salary under 13%....how can he possibly jump to the conclusion that it's straight up greed without even bothering to mention all the above? Really. There's no excuse for this. I mean, even if he thinks this 13% theory is a bunch of junk, that's fine, but at least tell us the context of it. But he's now commenting on another person's thought's, ignoring the obvious context of where it comes from, ignoring that this goes well beyond NE, and trying to telling his audience that Kraft and Belichick only do this out of greed. That's completely ridiculous.

Is this who Michael Felger really is as a person? We aren't even talking sports anymore. This crap goes well beyond "contrarian" sports talk. He's taking personal shots at Belichick and Kraft when he knows the very info he's using supports their strategy. Again, if he wants to brings up that data, tell the story behind it, and then argue that he thinks its a bunch of non-sense & the Pats should just pay big names, that's fine. But he doesn't do that. He takes the info, completely ignores the history and context, makes it look like NE is the only team doing it, and then claims that it's just an excuse for the Pats to keep money from players.....Why? I don't get this guy. He already has a successful show. He can speculate all day on Brady vs Belichick. But this is how he functions. This is who he is as a person. He lies to his listeners to make them think their team is lying to them.
Felger, whos felger?
 

The Brandon Five

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Greed, eh? Remember all those years when the Pats were way under the cap?

Yeah, me neither.
 

oldrover

"You're gonna have to serve somebody..."
Felger...

 

Shockt327

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I heard every word of his argument. Yes, what I posted is the argument he made. And the Tampa thing is irrelevant to his point, as the issue of Brady getting paid like an elite QB was never an issue for the TB signing.

You heard every word...yesterday? Because I did.


^^ He said "13%" is all BS. It's a Myth. Listen for yourself.

"....Not if they still beilieve what a QBS should make. Not a chance. When they re-structured Brady's contract years ago they wanted to make sure he wasn't above 13% of the cap. Nevermind 20% of the cap. Robert Kraft said it in so many words...he said: (Kraft:) if we had to pay him elite qb number I just didn't we could build a team (/kraft)..and I just think that that is such a load of bullcrap. I don't even know where to begin. Tom Brady leaving all that money on the table in 2012, did that somehow allow the Patriots or change who they keep or let go moving forward? It's now nine years later folks, so we know how this played out, because this myth is sold to you all the time, on paper it makes so much sense, and yo think its true because, of course, why wouldn't it be true? Tom Brady takes less so they can pay more to the players around him. It's sort of logical. It just didn';t work out that way. Because now we know."

4:45 - Bill takes the money, Tom Brady leaving money under cap allows them to pay Belichick intead of players
 

Shockt327

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
6:13 - Oh it's such a myth that this is why they won championships. So, after Tom Brady did his restructure, they did start winning championships. But it's not like they didn't lose players. But they won. So, its an easy thing for someone to say that doesn't look at it closely or the owners because they want to maintain this phony baloney salary cap thing...to say look, Tom Brady left money on the table and we won three more championships. But you didn't win championships based on what you spend or how you didn't spend. that had nothing to do with it, I think, that had nothing to do with it.

8:15 - the day we started the show I've has a hair across my @$$ on this topic, about this thing that the NFL owners are allowed to get away with; the salary cap. Folks you see it every day. How many times did you hare going into this offseason that such-and-such team couldn't trade their quarterback because the cap hit, the dead cap hit, you can't move Carson Wentz, the dead cap hit. You can't move Jared Goff the dead cap hit....and they just do it! Because they can do it! Because you can do whatever you want against the cap, if you really want to do it. If you really want to know how I feel about it....I actually think there is a under the table, real money cap, that these guys deal with at least internally if not collectively in that league that they don't promote that nobody knows about. But there's a whole nother set of bogus accounting that they all hold themselves to. That's outside of this bull crap cap.
 

XLIX

Pro Bowl Player
If the "cap is crap" then Jerry Jones would be spending hundreds of millions of dollars more than what he already does to get another Super Bowl Championship. He could spend everyone else into oblivion. His revenue is double that of 24 other teams. (Patriots at #2 are one of the teams whom he can't double up though)
 

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