Excellent Reiss piece about the trade

[1960Pats]

I really enjoy Reiss's pieces.

 

[Joker]

Coping mechanism? When the eff did the NFL become a goddamned Dr Phil show?

 

[Addictive]

"but now it shows GM Bill thinking one step ahead on behalf of Coach Bill."

How the heck does that even work?

Coach Bill sees that Jamie Collins is not playing to his full potential or making the team plays required. So GM Bill trades for a new LB from a position of leverage.

You think if the Pats trade Jamie Collins and then go out and search for another LB they can get one simply by swapping 6&7th round picks? No way. As soon as the league sees you trade a player away and you trade for a player of the same position the price goes up.

That is why it was smart of GM Bill to trade for Van Noy before he traded away Jamie Collins. Even though the trade for Van Noy had us all scratching our heads.

 

[PatsDeb]

And something on the theme of freelancing and respecting assignments by BB:

"I've coached every player I've ever coached the same way," Belichick said. "You have an assignment, you have something that you're responsible for, and then the instincts come after that. As long as you cover your guy, that's your job. You want to cover him off, you want to cover him on, inside technique, outside technique, backpedal, squat, there's a million ways to do it. If you have him covered, I'm going to be happy about it. You're going to be happy about it, right? So that's the bottom line. .. After that, there's an instinctive part to every play .. a player's instinct and style of play, that belongs to each of us. We're all different. But there's certain fundamentals that, as a coach, you're obligated to teach the best way you know how. And you work with individual players within that framework."

from: Belichick: Lombardi 'one of the smartest people I know'

I heard him talking about Lombardi too. No, "he's not in our locker room and doesn't know what's going on with our team." Just the opposite - Lombardi "is one of the smartest people I know," and "he really helped me out a lot when he was here." Translation, in my mind, - Lombardi's complaints are right on the $$. Further, this guy (Collins) was asking for too much $$, the defense isn't really doing that great and it's time to move on to another plan. (all summed up in "I did what's best for our team.")

 

[Hammer of Thor]

here's another play, the second play of the game. collins shoots the gap between LT cordy glenn (#77) and pulling C eric wood (#70), and gillislee goes outside for a 28-yard gain. collins commits before the handoff occurs and ends up in the backfield completely away from the play. it seems to me that he should have waited to see which way gillislee decided to run before committing. similar to the TD play, collins commits too early.

and it looks like hightower does just that--he hangs back and would have been able to cover the exact same gap that collins charges into. so i think collins failed to set the edge.

Yup -- this is the play Mike Lombardi went off on, saying Collins was doing whatever the hell he wants, and saying he should have set the edge. Matt Chatham later said the same thing about this play (in kinder terms).

 

[rochrist]

This is from today's PFT article:

Mike Lombardi, a longtime friend and colleague of Patriots coach Bill Belichick, ripped Jamie Collins for lack of effort and poor play after Belichick traded Collins to Cleveland. Those comments from Lombardi appeared to offer some insight into Belichick’s own feelings about Collins.

Today, Belichick talked to reporters about the Collins trade, and although he declined to specify precisely why he traded Collins, he hinted that he agreed with Lombardi’s assessment.

“Look, Mike’s one of the smartest people I know,” Belichick said. “He’s one of the smartest people I’ve worked with. He was a huge asset to me for the two years he was here. Mike’s a smart guy and he studies football and he knows it very well.”

Yeah, I thought this was a giant fifty foot high neon sign saying "Lombardi is delivering the message I can't/won't."

 

[bbobbo]

I heard him talking about Lombardi too. No, "he's not in our locker room and doesn't know what's going on with our team." Just the opposite - Lombardi "is one of the smartest people I know," and "he really helped me out a lot when he was here." Translation, in my mind, - Lombardi's complaints are right on the $$. Further, this guy (Collins) was asking for too much $$, the defense isn't really doing that great and it's time to move on to another plan. (all summed up in "I did what's best for our team.")

i have a theory that mike lombardi is actually a mole sent out by bill belichick to infiltrate the media and spread positive messages about the patriots to counteract all the negative press they've gotten the past couple of years. i've heard him speak a few times on fox NFL kickoff, and he's either defending the patriots or bashing the NFL. i like to think that belichick has had enough of goodell and has hatched a plan to take him down.

 

[Koma]

here's another play, the second play of the game. collins shoots the gap between LT cordy glenn (#77) and pulling C eric wood (#70), and gillislee goes outside for a 28-yard gain. collins commits before the handoff occurs and ends up in the backfield completely away from the play. it seems to me that he should have waited to see which way gillislee decided to run before committing. similar to the TD play, collins commits too early.

and it looks like hightower does just that--he hangs back and would have been able to cover the exact same gap that collins charges into. so i think collins failed to set the edge.

Thanks for posting that. A general question that has nothing to do with Collins: Why is Gillisless doing the "Shhhh" motion with his hand at the end of the play? He's near the Buffalo sideline, playing at home and not facing any Patriots players. Who does he want to quiet down?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yeah, I thought this was a giant fifty foot high neon sign saying "Lombardi is delivering the message I can't/won't."

No question.

BB sure as hell didn't go out of his way to disagree with him.

 

[mosslost]

I remember the very first stand-out game he had (January 11, 2014 playoff game against the Colts), and he got interviewed right after the game, it was his first prime-time moment.

His only comment to the reporter was something to the effect that he was just out there trying to make a name for himself. I remember finding it very strange: he didn't mention that he was glad to win and help the team move on, or happy to contribute, or anything about the team. What stuck out was that he was pumped to build his brand. A very non-Patriot way kind of thing, I was startled by it enough to remember it over two years later (and my memory isn't exactly a bear trap).

I chalked it up to rookie behavior, being green talking to the press.

Now, my guess is it was also a little window into his mindset....

I searched for the interview but unfortunately couldn't find it, I'd love to see how accurate my memory is. If anyone finds it please post!

Asante Samuels-like

 

[n6249c]

I really enjoy Reese's pieces.

fixed it for you. and thanks for reminding me to go buy leftover Halloween candy.

 

[neuronet]

Thanks for posting that. A general question that has nothing to do with Collins: Why is Gillisless doing the "Shhhh" motion with his hand at the end of the play? He's near the Buffalo sideline, playing at home and not facing any Patriots players. Who does he want to quiet down?

Maybe the crowd, because they were in hurry-up offense, and the crowd (understandably) went absolutely crazy after that run play.

 

[Marqui]

I wonder why no one brought up all these issues Collins had before he got traded.

 

[PF_SU]

I wonder why no one brought up all these issues Collins had before he got traded.

Nobody brought up anything regarding Easley before he got cut. So either it's all made-up or there is some degree of truth in it but the Patriots till the moment the players get traded/cut are keeping a very tight ship. You decide what you find more plausible.

 

[DW Toys]

I would not want to be Collins playing for Cleveland.

He will likely make outstanding money, but also be expected to bring wins to the Browns making that kind of coin. Their defense is ranked 30th.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2016 DEFENSE EFFICIENCY RATINGS

OK Cousins. If BB wanted Collins out of town for the good of the Team I get that and he has a right as he sees fit. My issue was compensation. I will guarantee you that many fellow forum followers, if hired to do a one off trade, given the right phone numbers and info could have contacted many NFC Teams, and moved Collins for a second and maybe a player. I don't care if anyone in the front office says "well we did not get a better offer". Start with the Cowboys and work down. The 49ers? The Rams? The Packers with all of their injuries?
There was more to it than a mere Trade. This was a little bit of......."So there!" to send him to the Browns.
I get it not to send him to AFC top Teams like the Steelers who are hurt at LB or even the Colts.
All those Teams mentioned would have come up with better compensation.
Here is the question. Did BB just pick up the phone and call the Browns and see if they would like him, or miraculously did the Browns call on a whim and say "will you give up Collins. After all we gave you Mingo?"
I believe that Bill has something going on with this that we might never know. And he is taking the heat full knowing that there is some reason he might never disclose including......... why Cleveland?

I think Van Noy was an indicator of a "what's up" a couple weeks ago in case Elandon Roberts fades. They had just picked up Trevor Reilly and put him on the PS who also can play LB.
DW Toys

 

[Marqui]

Nobody brought up anything regarding Easley before he got cut. So either it's all made-up or there is some degree of truth in it but the Patriots till the moment the players get traded/cut are keeping a very tight ship. You decide what you find more plausible.

So if the Collins issues are true, then it's also true that the Patriots defense has been terrible this year as Lombardi said.

 

[n6249c]

OK Cousins. If BB wanted Collins out of town for the good of the Team I get that and he has a right as he sees fit. My issue was compensation. I will guarantee you that many fellow forum followers, if hired to do a one off trade, given the right phone numbers and info could have contacted many NFC Teams, and moved Collins for a second and maybe a player. I don't care if anyone in the front office says "well we did not get a better offer". Start with the Cowboys and work down. The 49ers? The Rams? The Packers with all of their injuries?
There was more to it than a mere Trade. This was a little bit of......."So there!" to send him to the Browns.
I get it not to send him to AFC top Teams like the Steelers who are hurt at LB or even the Colts.
All those Teams mentioned would have come up with better compensation.
Here is the question. Did BB just pick up the phone and call the Browns and see if they would like him, or miraculously did the Browns call on a whim and say "will you give up Collins. After all we gave you Mingo?"
I believe that Bill has something going on with this that we might never know. And he is taking the heat full knowing that there is some reason he might never disclose including......... why Cleveland?

I think Van Noy was an indicator of a "what's up" a couple weeks ago in case Elandon Roberts fades. They had just picked up Trevor Reilly and put him on the PS who also can play LB.
DW Toys

Or if the reports about Collins insubordination with both Patricia and BB are correct, Belichick might've seen it as getting something in return for a guy who would be benched and possibly cut if he continued to act up. In retrospect, whether he knew it or not Collins was skating on thin ice when he got into it with Patricia. He took a fast trip from the penthouse to the outhouse.

 

[Froob]

I really enjoy Reiss's pieces.

Heh that's what his blog was called before he made it to ESPN.

 

[Deus Irae]

I wonder why no one brought up all these issues Collins had before he got traded.

It depends on what you mean by "no one", I guess.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

the big problem from my view is Collins met Gillislee head-on at the 3 yard line, and yet couldn't bring him down.

He initially tried to shoot the B gap and got too close to the line of scrimmage to be able to switch to the A gap in time. So he didn't meet him head-on at all - he hit him at an angle that made it impossible to stop the runner.