Excellent Michael Hurley Article: Significant Aspect Of Garoppolo Trade That Nobody’s Talking About

[PatsWickedPissah]

We will know what BB thinks of JG AFTER the draft, everything prior to that is just noise. IF a trade happens it will be right around the draft. Everyone needs to relax,

I see your point but IF other GMs do not value JAG highly, BB will not give him away draft cheap when keeping JAG for 2017 is a fine, cheap insurance policy and enables the Pats to see if Brissette is developing or not. So we really won't know if it was BB's view of JAG or others' lack of same that keeps him here.

And as to Ivan's injury point, don't think that GMs don't factor durability concerns into considering trading the house for JAG. I think the injury was a small sample fluke but my job and possibly my career does not depend on my being correct. A sobering thought for GMs.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

Just want to comment on this bit...

Mitchell is 23.
Cooks is 23.
Hogan is 28.

That's a pretty young trio of receivers.

Amendola is turning 32; Edelman is turning 31.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I didn't say he didn't have potential and I acknowledged that he played really well in the five quarters he was in, but once again what I take issue with is the projection of him as a Super Bowl winning QB when he couldn't make it through two games, and he was only asked to play 4. The bottom line is that it doesn't matter how good he is if he can't take big hits.

Injuries happen in football. I don't like this nonsense that he has only played two games.

He was a 4 year starter in college throwing for 5000 yards one season. He broke all of Romo's records there. He always threw for greater than 60% completion rate. And he played and started well over 45 games in college, wining over 35 of them. One year he almost took his team to an undefeated season, losing but one game where he threw for over 400 yards and a couple of TDs.

There is an old scouting rule about QBs called the "3 x 25 rule". Qualified QB candidates should have started more than 25 games, threw in at least 25 games over 60% completions, and won more than 25 games. Polo was well over that criterion where as the First Round QB candidates this year never met that requirement. One has only 8 starts and another only 12. You can't wash out the fluke accident successes so easily then.

Plus Polo has other attributes of success. He is smart. He has a very quick ,almost Marino like fast, compact release. He throws a "catchable" ball from a strong but not overpowering arm. He appears coachable, and else BB would have weeded him out long ago.

Finally he has the intangibles that makes a a Star... Good Looks, Leadership ability, and is well spoken. Don't discount them. These all contribute to being a leader; and get other players to follow him. Many of you don't realize the explicit attributes sought by the military for its officers, never having served. But the military of necessity specifies what makes a person, a Leader type. One that men will follow sometimes to their death. But Bill Belichick learned them growing up at Annapolis.

 

[50-yard-line]

Amendola is turning 32; Edelman is turning 31.

And? There's no need to draft a SIXTH receiver this year. Floyd's still out there, Lucien is on the PS and 4th receivers are an easy pick-up if needed.

The Pats would be crazy to expend high draft capital on WR this year - unless there's someone special BB wants.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

And? There's no need to draft a SIXTH receiver this year. Floyd's still out there, Lucien is on the PS and 4th receivers are an easy pick-up if needed.

The Pats would be crazy to expend high draft capital on WR this year - unless there's someone special BB wants.

The point is 30+ is senior citizen age for WR's so I don't expect many more seasons out of those two. A few late round WR picks may be a good forward thinking move. It takes time to learn the NE playbook. Floyd can't leave the State of Az for a few months now, is going to be suspended, and hasn't signed with anybody yet.

 

[Ivan]

Did anyone else notice a comment at the bottom of Hurley's piece by one "Mike" aka NEM?

This twitter account has to be a joke, no? No way NEM could still be among the living... (does make sense he hates Butler however!)

Mike (@M_Allen_aka_NEM) | Twitter

It makes perfect sense. No one that isn't NEM would ever claim to be him.

 

[patsfan13]

I see your point but IF other GMs do not value JAG highly, BB will not give him away draft cheap when keeping JAG for 2017 is a fine, cheap insurance policy and enables the Pats to see if Brissette is developing or not. So we really won't know if it was BB's view of JAG or others' lack of same that keeps him here.

And as to Ivan's injury point, don't think that GMs don't factor durability concerns into considering trading the house for JAG. I think the injury was a small sample fluke but my job and possibly my career does not depend on my being correct. A sobering thought for GMs.

IF other GM's don't valu e JG then he will let him walk and take a 3rd round compensatory pick. However the rumors seem to indicate they can get a 1st rd pick + other picks.


There are also other components, IF Butler signs with the Saints and the Pats get #11 then BB would likely take the Brown's #33 this year rather than #12 and take the Cleveland first rd pick NEXT year, with a strong draft perhaps draft a QB to groom as Brady's replacement for a few years down the road.

Lots of moving parts between now and draft day, no rush.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Lombardi has mentioned this several times. You need to put a name to that pick.

Several people have remarked that we could just trade down for more, but that assumes someone is willing to trade up in a deep draft. You can't just automatically force a trade down whenever you want.

So if you're in that range, you see what type of players are available. And this draft is pretty rich at RB and DB. We still have Butler, and hopefully get more out of Cyrus Jones compared to last year. We return all RBs except Blount so far, and have signed Burkhead. Would you want to spend that #12 pick on either position?

I'm not a huge draft guru, but I read that there might be 15 or 16 guys with 1st round grades in this draft, and if those positions don't align with your needs when you might draft, you have to wonder if it's worth trading for that pick.

If the QBs were pushed up to the top of the draft and could potentially push some names from other positions out of the top 10, that might help. But right now, it looks like it won't line up with a major need and the type of prospect that would be better than Jimmy G anyways.

Maybe during the draft, we'll see a trade if the right guy drops to 12. But based on who is around there during the mocks, there's nobody more valuable than Jimmy G to me right now.

 

[JohnVM]

The REAL thing about the JG trade nobody is talking about is...

Luck hasn't won enough for the Colts. BB is trading JG for Luck, and that's the end game. And then we're setup for another 8 years or so. The trade earlier this offseason was just establishing good relations to make this all possible.

I'll let myself out now... //drunk

 

[maineman209]

The REAL thing about the JG trade nobody is talking about is...

Luck hasn't won enough for the Colts. BB is trading JG for Luck, and that's the end game. And then we're setup for another 8 years or so. The trade earlier this offseason was just establishing good relations to make this all possible.

I'll let myself out now... //drunk

Goodell offered to call you an Uber.

 

[fgssand]

As we've discussed many times the problem with Jimmy is just a matter of timing. Unless you're giving up on TB sooner then Jimmy's contract then JG is not the guy. So mine as well flip him for an even more highly rated player out of college and start grooming a newb.

With 75mm available cap next year (I'm not sure how much of that will be needed to sign upcoming FA's), seems like we actually may be able to have our cake and eat it too.

With TB always signing cap / team friendly deals, it is possible to pay both without totally overpaying for the QB position. At least it's possible for the next two years anyway while JG is under our control.

Unheard of? Yes. But at the same time, is that not what would truly be in the best interest of the football team over the next say 2-5 years?

All of what I am advocating assumes that BB thinks or knows that JG is indeed that franchise QB

 

[supafly]

With 75mm available cap next year (I'm not sure how much of that will be needed to sign upcoming FA's), seems like we actually may be able to have our cake and eat it too.

With TB always signing cap / team friendly deals, it is possible to pay both without totally overpaying for the QB position. At least it's possible for the next two years anyway while JG is under our control.

Unheard of? Yes. But at the same time, is that not what would truly be in the best interest of the football team over the next say 2-5 years?

All of what I am advocating assumes that BB thinks or knows that JG is indeed that franchise QB

Not sure where you're getting the 75m dollar figure from, but right now the available cap space for 2018 is 53m dollars. Of course you also need to account for the fact that we only have 33 players under contract and approx. 30 free agents.

Franchising Garoppolo would be difficult unless they plan on carrying over a big chunk of this year's money. A much better question to ask would be why Garoppolo wouldn't want to start somewhere else, and what happens to Tom Brady? Surely, Belichick isn't going to pay someone 15-20m dollars a year to hold a clipboard on the sidelines--at least not for very long, anyway.

 

[Ring 6]

We have 7 picks (72nd, 96th, 131st, 163rd, 183rd, 200th, and 239th) and how many available roster spots?
What do we need right now? RB? Younger WR's for future? LB to replace Ninko someday? Some O-Line depth for future? CB depth for future?
I can see the point where a quality backup QB may be more valuable to us next year than a few more picks.

We have numerous roster spots that a draft choice could win.

 

[signbabybrady]

With 75mm available cap next year (I'm not sure how much of that will be needed to sign upcoming FA's), seems like we actually may be able to have our cake and eat it too.

With TB always signing cap / team friendly deals, it is possible to pay both without totally overpaying for the QB position. At least it's possible for the next two years anyway while JG is under our control.

Unheard of? Yes. But at the same time, is that not what would truly be in the best interest of the football team over the next say 2-5 years?

All of what I am advocating assumes that BB thinks or knows that JG is indeed that franchise QB

So that's it your giving TB12 2 more seasons and then it's Jimmy's team?

 

[Ring 6]

The patriots currently have 64 players under contract.
This includes the following players
Lucien
Bates
Farris
Baby gronk
Lengel
Hamilton
Douglass
Foster
Barker
Williams
J jones
Grissom
Kilgo
Coleman
Houser
Jackson
Richards
Waffle
Fleming
All of whom could reasonably be beaten out by a draft choice and/or weeent even in the 53 last year or for parts of last year.

Amendola and butler could be gone


There would be room for at least 10 more players and that doesn't include surprise guys who could beat out players like karras or Roberts who made the team as a surprise last year. It also doesn't include that there will be injuries.

There is plenty of room for good players.

 

[maineman209]

Not sure where you're getting the 75m dollar figure from, but right now the available cap space for 2018 is 53m dollars. Of course you also need to account for the fact that we only have 33 players under contract and approx. 30 free agents.

Franchising Garoppolo would be difficult unless they plan on carrying over a big chunk of this year's money. A much better question to ask would be why Garoppolo wouldn't want to start somewhere else, and what happens to Tom Brady? Surely, Belichick isn't going to pay someone 15-20m dollars a year to hold a clipboard on the sidelines--at least not for very long, anyway.

The Pats currently have $23M in cap space that could be carried over, and they haven't even made the expected reduction to Amendola's 2017 cap hit that could add another $4M-$5M, or the extension to Solder that could add another $2M-$4M.

The Pats started 2017 FA with about $60M in cap space. Hypothetically, they could begin FA in 2018 with about that same amount after franchising JG.

And JG being limited to "holding the clipboard" isn't a must simply because that's always the way it's been done.

 

[Ivan]

So that's it your giving TB12 2 more seasons and then it's Jimmy's team?

If you go back to 2014 the same people were saying they needed to get rid of Brady, that he was too old and was just going to deteriorate from there on out. Fast forward to today and he's won them 2 more Lombardi's and went 14-1 with 28 TD's and two int's and yet they are making the exact same argument. They are impervious to the reality of his play and just keep on insisting they are right.

 

[fgssand]

So that's it your giving TB12 2 more seasons and then it's Jimmy's team?

I am using what BB has oft said, that QB is the sports most important position, one that you do not want to get caught short. So, I want to cover all bases and keep them both for as many years as possible.

No one knows when TB will lost it now that he is 40 year old TB.

That said, I would never bet against TB, if he says 3 or 4 years -- he's just they guy to defy everything known to football.

So,what I am suggesting and what I think BB will do, is keep 'em both for at least two years because we can and then re-evaluate based on what is known at that time.

Our cap management and ever increasing cap numbers provide the capitol to pull it off without hurting the team.

 

[supafly]

The Pats started 2017 FA with about $60M in cap space. Hypothetically, they could begin FA in 2018 with about that same amount after franchising JG.

And JG being limited to "holding the clipboard" isn't a must simply because that's always the way it's been done.

I don't think there are many plausible scenarios where the NEP will have 80+ million in cap room.
And none of it really matters anyway when you're fielding a team of 63 players (including PS) and you only have 33 under contract, with another 30+ in free agency.

As far as Garoppolo NOT holding the clipboard, what is your proposal? That they're going to pay 40m dollars to have some kind of cheesy rotation? You're going to choose to sit Tom Brady out, instead?

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

We have numerous roster spots that a draft choice could win.

Pass rusher, coverage LB, and an RB or 2 . . . 7 picks should suffice even if we're starting in the 3rd round. Heck, Joe Mixon should be there in round three and would be a steal if we can deal with the "no more" crowd objections.