(Edited Title:) Writer thinks Zappe is winning the QB "battle"?

[Rob0729]

So the coaching staff which you yourself called arguably the worst in NFL history magically became competent and talented for Zappe...

Do you really not see how ridiculous you sound???

Did I ever say that. They became conservative and relied on the run more and picked and chose the times Zappe threw and only let him throw in situations (other than the Cleveland game) when it was favorable. That doesn't make them competent and talented.

And obviously they weren't competent and talented when Zappe was in there - see the Bears game.

 

[XLIX]

Did I ever say that. They became conservative and relied on the run more and picked and chose the times Zappe threw and only let him throw in situations (other than the Cleveland game) when it was favorable. That doesn't make them competent and talented.

And obviously they weren't competent and talented when Zappe was in there - see the Bears game.

ok so then you agree that Zappe would improve if he played this year with competent coaching. Considering his stat line last year, that's pretty impressive.

 

[Kontradiction]

That is misleading. They managed Zappe's throws and he has small sample size. Look at the Bears' game where he was awful in the second half. He only threw 22 times and had a 8.4 YPA. That is because he had one 43 yard pass. If he passed 30 times in that game, his average would be lower. Zappe threw 92 passes in 2022. Mac Jones threw 442.

Only one starting QB in the league had a higher than 8.4 YPA in 2022. Tom Brady's YPA was 6.3 last year. Justin Herbert's and Aaron Rodgers' were 6.8.

You cannot compare YPA attempt for a back up who plays only a few games and the coaching staff picked and chose when he would throw to give him favorable match ups to a full time starter.

NFL Football Player Stats & Stats Leaders - Yards Per Pass Thrown

Free NFL football player stats and stats leaders in simple, easy to read tables. This page tracks yards per pass thrown statistics.

www.teamrankings.com

It’s not misleading at all. That’s why it’s adjusted. You’re now moving the goalposts when you pick the Bears game to make your argument when, originally, you spoke of their seasons in general. So, I’ll ask again - what routes was team limited to with Zappe vs Mac?

 

[Rob0729]

It’s not misleading at all. That’s why it’s adjusted. You’re now moving the goalposts when you pick the Bears game to make your argument when, originally, you spoke of their seasons in general. So, I’ll ask again - what routes was team limited to with Zappe vs Mac?

Well, too bad for the Chargers. They just made Justin Herbert they highest paid player in the league with a paltry 6.8 YPA when they could have traded him straight up for Zappe and his 8.5 YPA.

It is absolutely misleading. And it isn't adjusted. See his stats below. Zappe wasn't the second most efficient deep ball passer in the league last year. But according to you he was.

Bailey Zappe 2025 Stats per Game - NFL - ESPN

The 2025 NFL season stats per game for Bailey Zappe of the New York Jets on ESPN. Includes full stats, per opponent, for regular and postseason.

www.espn.com

And not moving the goalpost at all. It wasn't the routes per sea. It was putting him in better position. It play action under center. It was having more conservative first down plays to set up second and/or third and manageable rather than lower percentage plays with Jones on first down. It was a strong commitment to set up the run to make passing easier. Things like that.

 

[Rob0729]

ok so then you agree that Zappe would improve if he played this year with competent coaching. Considering his stat line last year, that's pretty impressive.

Yes, Zappe will improve. Doesn't change the fact that I think his ceiling is a solid back up.

 

[Kasmir]

Yes, Zappe will improve. Doesn't change the fact that I think his ceiling is a solid back up.

Small sample size. He also had a 71.4% completion percentage which would have been the 4th highest season of all time.

Mac Jones actually had the 2nd highest completion all time by a qualifying rookie QB

 

[Rob0729]

Small sample size. He also had a 71.4% completion percentage which would have been the 4th highest season of all time.

Mac Jones actually had the 2nd highest completion all time by a qualifying rookie QB

Yeah, stats like these don't mean anything for a back up who played a few games and are managed in at least two of them.

 

[PatsFan2]

Yes, Zappe will improve. Doesn't change the fact that I think his ceiling is a solid back up.

Is Purdy's ceiling a back-up?? Zappe was Drafted before him I wouldn't label anybody yet.

 

[Rob0729]

Is Purdy's ceiling a back-up?? Zappe was Drafted before him I wouldn't label anybody yet.

I am not judging Zappe on his draft position. I am judging him on his physical traits and skill set. And again, I have said I could end up being wrong. But so far nothing I have heard from camp thus far tells me he is even close to competing for the starting role.

 

[Ian]

I am not judging Zappe on his draft position. I am judging him on his physical traits and skill set. And again, I have said I could end up being wrong. But so far nothing I have heard from camp thus far tells me he is even close to competing for the starting role.

He's had moments and had one really solid practice. He just hasn't yet been able to string a bunch of them together just yet.

What's going to be interesting is seeing him going up against team's second and third teams where he should absolutely tear them up if he is who we think he might be. Definitely looking forward to seeing it.

 

[Kontradiction]

Well, too bad for the Chargers. They just made Justin Herbert they highest paid player in the league with a paltry 6.8 YPA when they could have traded him straight up for Zappe and his 8.5 YPA.

It is absolutely misleading. And it isn't adjusted. See his stats below. Zappe wasn't the second most efficient deep ball passer in the league last year. But according to you he was.

Bailey Zappe 2025 Stats per Game - NFL - ESPN

The 2025 NFL season stats per game for Bailey Zappe of the New York Jets on ESPN. Includes full stats, per opponent, for regular and postseason.

www.espn.com

Straw man argument aside, I wonder if you’re aware that you’re destroying your own argument here?

And not moving the goalpost at all. It wasn't the routes per sea.

It wasn’t the routes? But that’s not what you said in the original claim that I responded to…



Safe throws are slants, out routes, hitches. Checkdown routes. So you either misspoke or you moved the goalposts. Your pick. In any event, we agree that he had the same route options Mac did.

It was putting him in better position. It play action under center. It was having more conservative first down plays to set up second and/or third and manageable rather than lower percentage plays with Jones on first down. It was a strong commitment to set up the run to make passing easier. Things like that.

Prove all of this, please. What percentage of plays was he under center during that stretch vs a similar four game stretch for Mac? What percentage did the team run PA vs a similar four game stretch for Mac? What percentage did the team call a run on first down for Zappe vs any four game stretch for Mac? Cite your sources.

Like I said, I prefer Mac over Zappe. There are many different ways you can make that case. You just chose the wrong one and, instead of just saying that maybe you were a little overzealous and pivoting to making that case in those different ways, you’ve chosen to dig your heels in.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

What does arguing for the sake of arguing even mean?
You made a statement, I disagreed with.
Someone posted deceptive information behind it and I pointed out it is deceptive.
If you call that “arguing” then every argument ever would fit your mold of arguing for the sake of arguing.
I “arguing” for the sake of correctness and accuracy.

And, no, “look it up” doesn’t provide an answer, it’s the equivalent of “oh yeah”

OK... You don't want to look anything up (aka find facts) and neither do I at this point.
Going from memory the Patriots lost to the following QB's: Tua T, Allen (2x), Fields, Rogers, Cousins, Jackson, Burrows, and Carr.
For the life of me I cannot remember the QB's of any of the teams that the Patriots defeated. Most objective people can spot a trend.
Make no mistake about it, poor play by the special teams and offense played a role in those loses. On the other hand, an "Elite" defense
would have won a few of those games and this team would have been in the playoffs.

 

[Kasmir]

OK... You don't want to look anything up (aka find facts) and neither do I at this point.
Going from memory the Patriots lost to the following QB's: Tua T, Allen (2x), Fields, Rogers, Cousins, Jackson, Burrows, and Carr.
For the life of me I cannot remember the QB's of any of the teams that the Patriots defeated. Most objective people can spot a trend.
Make no mistake about it, poor play by the special teams and offense played a role in those loses. On the other hand, an "Elite" defense
would have won a few of those games and this team would have been in the playoffs.

Really? You think only the Pats defense did poorly vs elite offenses? Prove it. All defenses do worse vs elite offenses. What makes you think the Pats defense fell off more than average?

We had a below average offense and the worst special teams in the league. Defense wasn't the problem.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Really? You think only the Pats defense did poorly vs elite offenses? Prove it. All defenses do worse vs elite offenses. What makes you think the Pats defense fell off more than average?

We had a below average offense and the worst special teams in the league. Defense wasn't the problem.

I am not saying that the Patriots Defense is dog food. On the other Hand they are not elite.

@Kasmir Do you always jump into conversations without reading for context?

 

[Ring 6]

OK... You don't want to look anything up (aka find facts) and neither do I at this point.
Going from memory the Patriots lost to the following QB's: Tua T, Allen (2x), Fields, Rogers, Cousins, Jackson, Burrows, and Carr.
For the life of me I cannot remember the QB's of any of the teams that the Patriots defeated. Most objective people can spot a trend.
Make no mistake about it, poor play by the special teams and offense played a role in those loses. On the other hand, an "Elite" defense
would have won a few of those games and this team would have been in the playoffs.

I don’t need to look up what I witnessed with focused attention.
You are arguing that because the team lost 9 games anything you say negative must therefore be right.

 

[chasa]

Would anyone here like to be quoted in my exclusive upcoming piece for musketfire about how actually Trace McSorely is currently winning the QB battle.

 

[Ian]

On the other hand, an "Elite" defense
would have won a few of those games and this team would have been in the playoffs.

It's sort of the other way around. That defense was actually what had them within striking distance of several of those games, including the finale in Buffalo. They lost those games because they couldn't make a play or two on the other side of the ball to flip a few of those losses, which was the bigger issue.

If they had the same offense they had the previous season in 2021, you're right, they would have been in the postseason and the worst part is they actually had enough speed on the defensive side to be more competitive compared to a year ago (again, we saw that against Buffalo in the finale).

But the bigger letdown last year was the offense, which was frustrating for obvious reasons. Hopefully that will be less of an issue in 2023.

 

[Ian]

Would anyone here like to be quoted in my exclusive upcoming piece for musketfire about how actually Trace McSorely is currently winning the QB battle.

LOL, going for the trifecta?

 

[Kasmir]

I am not saying that the Patriots Defense is dog food. On the other Hand they are not elite.

@Kasmir Do you always jump into conversations without reading for context?

Another mind reader. Why do you assume I didn't read the thread before commenting? Is that something you do?

They were 2nd in DVOA and 1st in weighted DVOA. They were 2nd in adjusted PPG. Why do you believe they were not elite?

Perhaps the biggest fan fallacy is to make assessments about their team and players without doing a comparative analysis of other teams and other players. Again: how do you know that the Pats defense was worse vs elite teams than other good defenses?

 

[SammyBlueCat]

It's sort of the other way around. That defense was actually what had them within striking distance of several of those games, including the finale in Buffalo. They lost those games because they couldn't make a play or two on the other side of the ball to flip a few of those losses, which was the bigger issue.

If they had the same offense they had the previous season in 2021, you're right, they would have been in the postseason and the worst part is they actually had enough speed on the defensive side to be more competitive compared to a year ago (again, we saw that against Buffalo in the finale).

But the bigger letdown last year was the offense, which was frustrating for obvious reasons. Hopefully that will be less of an issue in 2023.

Last years games against Buffalo are not a good examples. Both games Buffalo had secure leads and let up. (35 points scored in the December game) What about the games against the Ravens and the Bears? Have they learned to stop a running qb? Is Kirk Cousins elite? Aaron Rodgers is still pretty good however he was able to complete passes to wide open receivers with the game on the line in overtime.

Again - I am not saying that they are awful but I am concerned that their numbers look unrealistically good because they soundly defeated teams with ill equipped Qb's. It is a stretch to label the defense "elite".