Deebo wants out of SF

[sb1]

At the end of the day, the Pats were ranked 6th in points allowed,

Vs a last place schedule

And the defense played lights out in the playoffs

I wouldn't go that far. Kurt Warner still set a Super Bowl passing record at the time. The 2001 defense had great players and had a real knack for making clutch plays but let's not pretend that they were lights out and carried the QB.

 

[sb1]

Deebo had double the total yards and 11 more TDs than Branch. They’re not even in the same ballpark

They were still limited by Jimmy not throwing the ball. All I'm saying is it's possible in this era to make a run using the formula of great defense, great running and above average QB play at best, and that team showed it. But "great" has to mean really great. The Patriots tried to use that formula last year and they were a step down from that level.

 

[Wozzy]

I don't know what all the hemming and hawing is about this thread getting "hijacked," this thread could have died on page two... Deebo is not coming here... get over it.

Also for the hijackers, that 2001 Patriots team wouldn't have won that ring without their kicker.... seriously, the F-ing kicker.

So stop telling us it was QB magic that made all things possible. This isn't a Disney movie, it's real life. Superheroes don't really exist.

 

[sb1]

Also for the hijackers, that 2001 Patriots team wouldn't have won that ring without their kicker.... seriously, the F-ing kicker.

If a kicker will ever be a first ballot HOFer I can't see how it's not AV.

 

[XLIX]

Belichick does not believe in elite down field threat WRs.

The only one in 20 years was Moss and he came on the cheap. If Deebo was down on his luck or a habitual drug user like Josh Gordon then yeah, but a guy at peak performance and earning potential wont be signing here.

I dont see him going to Pittsburgh or KC because they will draft a WR who can play and cost low rookie money. Watch what both teams do drafting and especially Pittsburgh. They unloaded JuJu and Washington, so I expect them to reload taking a WR early and late.

Pittsburgh needs to worry more about who will be throwing the ball than they do who will be catching it. Sure, one can argue that getting Deebo is independent of what they do at the QB position, but still....

 

[Tottie]

If a kicker will ever be a first ballot HOFer I can't see how it's not AV.

It would be Tucker IMO. Just like many players in various sports the legend with AV is greater than the player. He's made a few incredible kicks but overall he's no where near Tucker. If those few kicks are all it takes to be a HOF, nevermind a 1st ballot, then JE should be in automatically.

 

[XLIX]

It would be Tucker IMO. Just like many players in various sports the legend with AV is greater than the player. He's made a few incredible kicks but overall he's no where near Tucker. If those few kicks are all it takes to be a HOF, nevermind a 1st ballot, then JE should be in automatically.

You make it sound like Vinatieri played 8 years and is only under consideration because of his clutch kicks in playoffs/Super Bowls. Even if you take away those "few incredible kicks" you are still left with a HOF career.

He played 24 years and owns multiple NFL records. His HOF candidacy is based on quite a bit more than a "few incredible kicks".

 

[Tottie]

You make it sound like Vinatieri played 8 years and is only under consideration because of his clutch kicks in playoffs/Super Bowls. Even if you take away those "few incredible kicks" you are still left with a HOF career.

He played 24 years and owns multiple NFL records. His HOF candidacy is based on quite a bit more than a "few incredible kicks".

Point taken but it was mostly referring to the '1st ballot HOF' notion. I think he's had a hell of a career and belongs in the HOF. Great teammate too if that's worth anything.

 

[crawhammer]

Belichick came from the NYG, who ran the Erhardt Perkins system in the 80s. That offense featured no top receiver, and their best weapon was a guy named Mark Bavaro. The patriots over the past two decades have been very similarly built - top defense, good running game, no pro bowl WR threat (for the most part). This formula worked back then, but I just don't know if you can continue to have long term success in this league today without weapons at receiver.

The Erhardt Perkins system was a F*CKING disaster with Drew Bledsoe... in 2000 the Patriots had their worst offensive rankings (25th in points and 22nd in yards) in 8 seasons. They were 5-13 under the Erhardt Perkins system heading into week 3 of the 2001 season... from there with Brady as the quarterback the Erhardt Perkins system went 14-3, finished 6th in points, and won the Super Bowl. You sound like a complete Jack*ss talking about the 2001 postseason like Brady did nothing... he went 20-26 for 133 in the 4th quarter/OT against the Raiders in a blizzard. He led the game-winning drive and was named the MVP of the Super Bowl. That 2001 team NEEDED Brady for that season to get turned around and for them to win the Super Bowl. Obviously!

As for the complete two decades...

2001-2019 Patriots Offense
Top 10 in PF: 18
Top 10 in YF: 13
Top 5 in PF: 11
Top 5 in YF: 8
Top 3 in PF: 8
Top 3 in YF: 5

2001-2019 Patriots Defense
Top 10 in PA: 16
Top 10 in YA: 8
Top 5 in PA: 8
Top 5 in YA: 2
Top 3 in PA: 5
Top 3 in YA: 1

By everyone one of these measures the offense is ahead of the defense. Collectively the dynasty offensives were better than the dynasty defenses... and primarily because of Brady...

2001-2019 Patriots Offense
Top 10 in passing: 13
Top 10 in rushing: 8
Top 3 in passing: 5
Top 3 in rushing: 0

12 of 19 seasons the passing offense ranked ahead of the rushing offense. They had 1 pro bowl selection for a RB... Dillon in 2004. They had 7 pro bowl selections for WR (Welker 5, Moss 1 & Brown 1) and 5 for TE (Gronk). Brady was selected to 14 pro bowls. The "formula" started with and rested upon Brady primarily.

 

[Triumph]

Pittsburgh needs to worry more about who will be throwing the ball than they do who will be catching it. Sure, one can argue that getting Deebo is independent of what they do at the QB position, but still....

Tribisky is better than given credit for.

Nagy stunk at calling plays and was under pressure to win or be terminated. There is no pressure on Tomlin and all Tribisky needs to do is not go out there and lose.

 

[XLIX]

Tribisky is better than given credit for.

Well most people think he sucks royally so if he is better than given credit for, that means he only sucks a little.

He will be entering his 6th year in the NFL and has shown absolutely no development since year 2.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

The Erhardt Perkins system was a F*CKING disaster with Drew Bledsoe... in 2000 the Patriots had their worst offensive rankings (25th in points and 22nd in yards) in 8 seasons. They were 5-13 under the Erhardt Perkins system heading into week 3 of the 2001 season... from there with Brady as the quarterback the Erhardt Perkins system went 14-3, finished 6th in points, and won the Super Bowl. You sound like a complete Jack*ss talking about the 2001 postseason like Brady did nothing... he went 20-26 for 133 in the 4th quarter/OT against the Raiders in a blizzard. He led the game-winning drive and was named the MVP of the Super Bowl. That 2001 team NEEDED Brady for that season to get turned around and for them to win the Super Bowl. Obviously!

As for the complete two decades...

2001-2019 Patriots Offense
Top 10 in PF: 18
Top 10 in YF: 13
Top 5 in PF: 11
Top 5 in YF: 8
Top 3 in PF: 8
Top 3 in YF: 5

2001-2019 Patriots Defense
Top 10 in PA: 16
Top 10 in YA: 8
Top 5 in PA: 8
Top 5 in YA: 2
Top 3 in PA: 5
Top 3 in YA: 1

By everyone one of these measures the offense is ahead of the defense. Collectively the dynasty offensives were better than the dynasty defenses... and primarily because of Brady...

2001-2019 Patriots Offense
Top 10 in passing: 13
Top 10 in rushing: 8
Top 3 in passing: 5
Top 3 in rushing: 0

12 of 19 seasons the passing offense ranked ahead of the rushing offense. They had 1 pro bowl selection for a RB... Dillon in 2004. They had 7 pro bowl selections for WR (Welker 5, Moss 1 & Brown 1) and 5 for TE (Gronk). Brady was selected to 14 pro bowls. The "formula" started with and rested upon Brady primarily.

^^^^^^^Ladies and gentlemen, the reason for why threads get derailed...introducing Dave (from the Boston area), aka crawhammer.

Bledsoe was a disaster under EP? Didn't realize getting to a super bowl was such a bad thing.

 

[Triumph]

Well most people think he sucks royally so if he is better than given credit for, that means he only sucks a little.

Most people thought Stafford sucked too.

He will be entering his 6th year in the NFL

The last season where he started the majority of games was year 3. Nagy decided to play musical QBs year 4. Year 5 he was Allens back up and did not play.

Did you expect Buffalo to play him instead of Allen?

and has shown absolutely no development since year 2.

False

Won 71 % of games started 14 wins - 10 losses, Improved his completion % year 4, lowered his INT %, added 4 - 4th quarter comebacks and 4 game winning drives.

 

[Triumph]

Pittsburgh needs to worry more about who will be throwing the ball than they do who will be catching it. Sure, one can argue that getting Deebo is independent of what they do at the QB position, but still....

Pittsburgh does not need Deebo and his high salary.

They can find WRs from the draft and plug them in to keep rolling.

 

[crawhammer]

^^^^^^^Ladies and gentlemen, the reason for why threads get derailed...introducing Dave (from the Boston area), aka crawhammer.

Bledsoe was a disaster under EP? Didn't realize getting to a super bowl was such a bad thing.

Firstly, what's with the "Dave (from the Boston area)"?... I don't get the elaboration.

Secondly, I'm not derailing anything, in fact I was replying to your millionth attempt to discredit Brady.

Thirdly, are we including the Parcells/Bledsoe seasons in the evaluation of the Erhardt Perkins system?... Bledsoe's first three seasons he had more INTs (58) than TDs (53)... they were running the equivalent of Arians "no risk-it, no biscuit" offense with Bledsoe leading the NFL in pass attempts 1994-1996... their rushing offenses for those seasons ranked 27th, 10th and 26th. The defenses of the Parcells era never broke the top 10 in PA or YA so your "formula" wasn't working back then either.

Also, Bledsoe was a catastrophe in the 1996 postseason... he averaged under 200 Y/G, had 7 INTs, with only 3 TDs, and a passer rating of 54.3. So yes, the Erhardt Perkins system was garbage with the wrong quarterback... just like any system, if your quarterback isn't good enough, it's f*cked.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

I don't know what all the hemming and hawing is about this thread getting "hijacked," this thread could have died on page two... Deebo is not coming here... get over it.

Also for the hijackers, that 2001 Patriots team wouldn't have won that ring without their kicker.... seriously, the F-ing kicker.

So stop telling us it was QB magic that made all things possible. This isn't a Disney movie, it's real life. Superheroes don't really exist.

If it was a Disney movie, Brady would have been the evil white villain who stole Marshall Faulks ring!

now that’s how you hijack a thread!

 

[XLIX]

Most people thought Stafford sucked too.

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, no. Just no. Only the ridiculously ignorant thought Stafford sucked. For most of his career, Matt Stafford has set records for being the fastest QB to reach X yards. He consistently threw 4,000+ per season on one of the worst teams in football. Once he was traded to LA, a lot of people saw that move as putting LA into Super Bowl contention (which, of course, it did).

The last season where he started the majority of games was year 3. Nagy decided to play musical QBs year 4. Year 5 he was Allens back up and did not play.

Yeah, he didn't play those seasons because he wasn't good enough.

Did you expect Buffalo to play him instead of Allen?

No. I expect them to take Trubisky, a backup caliber QB, and have him play backup. You are literally using the fact that he wasn't good enough for any team to take him on as a starter as your defense of his performance. Think about it.

False

Won 71 % of games started 14 wins - 10 losses, Improved his completion % year 4, lowered his INT %, added 4 - 4th quarter comebacks and 4 game winning drives.

This statement is so silly, I am having a hard time figuring out if you are being serious.

In year 2, he completed 66.6% of passes. In year 4, he completed 67% of passes. That's an increase of a measly 0.4%.
In year 2, his TD:INT ratio was 2:1. In year 4, his TD:INT ratio was 2:1. That is no change.
In year 2, his TD percentage was 5.5%. In year 4, his TD percentage was 5.4%. That's a decrease of a measly 0.1%.
In year 2, his INT percentage was 2.8%. In year 4, his INT percentage was 2.7%. That's a decrease of a measly 0.1%.
In year 2, his YPA was 7.4 yards. In year 4, his YPA was 6.9 yards. That a decrease of 0.5 yards.

If you look at the above stats and conclude he showed development in year 4 as compared to year 2, then that's just an obscene level of football ignorance.

 

[Ring 6]

Never said that. They were very good at making plays. But 24th vs the pass and 19th vs the rush. Draw your own conclusions. They were not elite, not even close.

They won the SB. They allowed 17 points or less the last 9 games (and 11 of 12) through the SB win and had 25 takeaways in those 9 games . That’s as elite as it gets unless you are a fool who thinks yards mean more than points.

 

[sb1]

They won the SB. They allowed 17 points or less the last 9 games (and 11 of 12) through the SB win and had 25 takeaways in those 9 games . That’s as elite as it gets unless you are a fool who thinks yards mean more than points.

Defense A allows a 90 yard drive then the opponent misses a FG
Defense B allows a 3 and out

They both allowed 0 points. I don't think there's much of an argument that defense A did equally as good a job as defense B.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Since we're going back in time to 2001...had the snow storm not happened, the Pats get ran off the field by the Raiders West Coast offense which was Bill's Daddy. In fact, the D struggling against the Raiders for most of the game and had a 13-3 lead.