Debate Brady vs Belichick?

[sb1]

This is a stupid debate ! Neither of them is more important than the other. Together they won 6 SB's. Without Bill, Brady would never have won those many, he might not have even got a starting position in the NFL. considering every team passed on him for 6 rounds ! Without Brady, Bill would have not won 6 SB's, I still think he would have won about 2 but that's it.
If Brady gets trounced the 1st round of the playoffs, then he hasn't accomplished much without Bill either. That would be what he did in NE last year, and that wasn't good enough. If Brady doesn't make it pass the WC, then he will consider the year a failure as we consider this year a failure for the Pats. In that case, it is a draw, they both failed without each other !
As of now, I am interesting in seeing this team's re build and excited about what the future might hold. I am not concerned about what Tampa does. Both Brady and Gronk jumped ship, why are some fans so obsessed with what they are doing ? The fans who want to blame Bill for everything may as well start rooting for another team, they don't have an allegiance to the Patriots at all, they were more Brady fans then fans of the team . My focus is on seeing the Pats build a team that can compete again for the AFC East crown and the AFC in general .

I don’t think this year is necessarily a failure for the Pats unless people think this was a Super Bowl team. Our window is closed and has been since last year. I wasn’t expecting much better. The rebuild had to start sometime and this is what rebuilding teams usually look like, and over multiple seasons.

They took a baby step into the rebuild in 2020 and I think Bill has a good sense of what needs to happen now. He’s definitely motivated by Brady’s success too. I think they’ll take a big step forward into the rebuilding process next year. If all goes well and with a bit of luck our window begins to open again in 2022.

 

[Boomer B]

This is a stupid debate ! Neither of them is more important than the other. Together they won 6 SB's. Without Bill, Brady would never have won those many, he might not have even got a starting position in the NFL. considering every team passed on him for 6 rounds ! Without Brady, Bill would have not won 6 SB's, I still think he would have won about 2 but that's it.
If Brady gets trounced the 1st round of the playoffs, then he hasn't accomplished much without Bill either. That would be what he did in NE last year, and that wasn't good enough. If Brady doesn't make it pass the WC, then he will consider the year a failure as we consider this year a failure for the Pats. In that case, it is a draw, they both failed without each other !
As of now, I am interesting in seeing this team's re build and excited about what the future might hold. I am not concerned about what Tampa does. Both Brady and Gronk jumped ship, why are some fans so obsessed with what they are doing ? The fans who want to blame Bill for everything may as well start rooting for another team, they don't have an allegiance to the Patriots at all, they were more Brady fans then fans of the team . My focus is on seeing the Pats build a team that can compete again for the AFC East crown and the AFC in general .

Gronk jumped ship? So he’s supposed to only play for the Pats but it was ok for Bill to try to trade him to the Lions before the 2018 season? Is Brady supposed to accept whatever deal Bill put in front of him? After everything Brady did for the franchise he couldn’t even get a 2nd year guaranteed.

 

[Foxypats]

Haha. So Brady brings his team to the playoffs, the first time for the Bucs since 07, and Bill misses the playoffs, the first time for the Pats since 08, and to you that’s a draw? Must be fun in this imaginary land you live in.

That's right ! With all that talent in Tampa, Bill would have them as SB favourite's , they would have won the division. That's what good coaching does, as in what Bill would have done. Making the playoff's as a WC and losing in the 1st round is meh !. I doubt they beat the Saints or GB to get to the SB, So yes it is a failure. I don't care about just making the playoffs. That is a loser mentality ! So my point stands, Bill would have done much better with all that talent !

 

[Rob0729]

If Belichick had Tampa's talent and an average QB, I think they are in the playoffs and could possibly be the #2-3 team in the AFC. If Tom was on the current Patriots without Bill, they would be missing the playoffs right now. They both have very different situations around them which is beyond them.

The debate between Brady and Belichick of who was more important to the Pats' success is far from over. In fact, it may never be answered.

But we will not know what Bill is without Tom until he actually gets a QB to build the team around and putting that team around him. Cam was a stop gap measure and he is showing why he could only get a $1 million salary. Whether it is a veteran or a rookie, Belichick needs to have a QB he wants to build an offense around.

As for Brady, he got dropped into a situation with a lot of talent on offense. And a pretty decent defense. Talent-wise, this is the best offense he has been on in years. Many years.

Yes, you can blame Belichick for a lot of the state of the current roster. But he gets a pass until he shows whether this year's struggles is just a one year correction or an ongoing trend.

 

[sb1]

That's right ! With all that talent in Tampa, Bill would have them as SB favourite's , they would have won the division. That's what good coaching does, as in what Bill would have done. Making the playoff's as a WC and losing in the 1st round is meh !. I doubt they beat the Saints or GB to get to the SB, So yes it is a failure. I don't care about just making the playoffs. That is a loser mentality ! So my point stands, Bill would have done much better with all that talent !

I actually think there’s a good chance they will make a run to the Super Bowl. They’re starting to peak now. Though Washington might be a matchup problem for Brady - same kind of front 7 as the Giants and Rams.

 

[Boomer B]

Rumors, and conjecture.

Not at all. So why did Brady have to renegotiate in Aug 2018 and then again in August 2019? Please explain it. Those deals only had one year guaranteed. That’s why. Bill could have guaranteed the 2nd year in both those deals but didn’t. If he had Brady would still be under contract.

So please explain why Bill would have agreed to the Tampa deal in 2020 (2 years guaranteed which is what Brady wanted) if he wouldn’t agree to guarantee the 2nd year in 2018 and 2019? There is no logical way to think Bill would all of a sudden guarantee a 2nd year if he wasn’t willing to do it the 2 years prior. You’re so out of your element right now.

 

[Ring 6]

Gronk jumped ship? So he’s supposed to only play for the Pats but it was ok for Bill to try to trade him to the Lions before the 2018 season? Is Brady supposed to accept whatever deal Bill put in front of him? After everything Brady did for the franchise he couldn’t even get a 2nd year guaranteed.

Fact
The future Hall of Fame quarterback agreed to terms on a two-year, $70 million contract extension with New England on Sunday, a source told NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport. The deal raises Brady's 2019 salary from $15 million to $23 million

 

[Foxypats]

Gronk jumped ship? So he’s supposed to only play for the Pats but it was ok for Bill to try to trade him to the Lions before the 2018 season? Is Brady supposed to accept whatever deal Bill put in front of him? After everything Brady did for the franchise he couldn’t even get a 2nd year guaranteed.

By the same token, after everything Bill has done for this franchise he has a right to run it his way and he deserves a pass for this year. He deserves our loyalty and trust ! He was directly responsible along with Brady and many other players and coaches to attain that level of success. You obviously think the success was only due to Brady, that is where we disagree. I will always love Brady for what he did , but it is time to move on and true fans will give Bill the benefit of the doubt. Go root for Tampa Boomer, since that is really what you want to do !

 

[TheRainMaker]

Gronk jumped ship? So he’s supposed to only play for the Pats but it was ok for Bill to try to trade him to the Lions before the 2018 season? Is Brady supposed to accept whatever deal Bill put in front of him? After everything Brady did for the franchise he couldn’t even get a 2nd year guaranteed.

Crazy how Bill the GM almost cost them that Super Bowl. The trade was actually agreed for a 1st rounder, but when the Pats told Gronk he was traded, he smartly told them he was retiring. Lions then recinded the trade.

 

[Ring 6]

Not at all. So why did Brady have to renegotiate in Aug 2018 and then again in August 2019? Please explain it. Those deals only had one year guaranteed. That’s why. Bill could have guaranteed the 2nd year in both those deals but didn’t. If he had Brady would still be under contract.

So please explain why Bill would have agreed to the Tampa deal in 2020 (2 years guaranteed which is what Brady wanted) if he wouldn’t agree to guarantee the 2nd year in 2018 and 2019? There is no logical way to think Bill would all of a sudden guarantee a 2nd year if he wasn’t willing to do it the 2 years prior. You’re so out of your element right now.

So your argument is Brady wanted to be paid when he couldn’t play any more? No.

 

[Ring 6]

Crazy how Bill the GM almost cost them that Super Bowl. The trade was actually agreed for a 1st rounder, but when the Pats told Gronk he was traded, he smartly told them he was retiring. Lions then recinded the trade.

Bs. Belichick used it as leverage to get gronk to stop playing games about whether he was retiring.

 

[Foxypats]

I actually think there’s a good chance they will make a run to the Super Bowl. They’re starting to peak now. Though Washington might be a matchup problem for Brady - same kind of front 7 as the Giants and Rams.

Maybe, but I think that Brady will struggle on the road, they lost twice to the Saints this season. Brady will have a hard time beating GB in GB and Seattle is no slouch either. We shall see....GB is also peaking right now !

 

[libra957]

Let's be honest, if Belichick was the coach of the bucs, they would be undefeated right now.

 

[Boomer B]

That's right ! With all that talent in Tampa, Bill would have them as SB favourite's , they would have won the division. That's what good coaching does, as in what Bill would have done. Making the playoff's as a WC and losing in the 1st round is meh !. I doubt they beat the Saints or GB to get to the SB, So yes it is a failure. I don't care about just making the playoffs. That is a loser mentality ! So my point stands, Bill would have done much better with all that talent !

The Patriots were 12-4 last year with Brady. We are 6-8 right now without and will miss the playoffs. The Bucs were 7-9 and out of the playoffs last year with a different QB, but are now 10-5 and in the playoffs with Brady. It shouldn’t be to hard to see the common denominator here is Brady.
.

 

[Jangles]

Happy to see how the majority voted

disappointed in how many people are wrong

 

[Boomer B]

Fact
The future Hall of Fame quarterback agreed to terms on a two-year, $70 million contract extension with New England on Sunday, a source told NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport. The deal raises Brady's 2019 salary from $15 million to $23 million

Give the full quote. It was 1 year guaranteed, not 2. Here’s Rapoports full quote. Please try to comprehend Donny.


The #Patriots and QB Tom Brady are in agreement on a 2-year deal worth $70M, source said, thru 2021. He gets $23M this year, then $30M and $32M in the following years — though both sides are amenable to adjusting it if the situations warrants. It’s essentially year-to-year.

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) August 4, 2019

 

[TheRainMaker]

Let's be honest, if Belichick was the coach of the bucs, they would be undefeated right now.

I can agree to that. 1-2 loses at worst.

 

[sb1]

By the same token, after everything Bill has done for this franchise he has a right to run it his way and he deserves a pass for this year. He deserves our loyalty and trust ! He was directly responsible along with Brady and many other players and coaches to attain that level of success. You obviously think the success was only due to Brady, that is where we disagree. I will always love Brady for what he did , but it is time to move on and true fans will give Bill the benefit of the doubt. Go root for Tampa Boomer, since that is really what you want to do !

Patriots are a rebuilding team. Our window is slammed shut right now. 6-8 wins isn’t unusual for a rebuilding team. Actually a lot of times it’s less than that.

With a rebuilding team I don’t look at W-L or playoffs/no playoffs for one year, I look for improvement and a plan. Let’s see what Bill does for 2021 and 2022. Then we can begin to say who won and who didn’t.

This season is only a failure if you expected this team to make a SB run or if next year we have shown no improvement. We’re not there. And that’s why I do not want to see Stidham. He is a step sideways not forward in this process.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Bs. Belichick used it as leverage to get gronk to stop playing games about whether he was retiring.

True story.

Details of Lions Rob Gronkowski 2018 Trade Offer Revealed

Thankfully, Gronkowski declined to be traded to Detroit Lions

www.si.com

https://www.radio.com/971theticket/articles/news/two-years-after-spurning-lions-gronkowski-chooses-bucs

 

[Foxypats]

Gronk jumped ship? So he’s supposed to only play for the Pats but it was ok for Bill to try to trade him to the Lions before the 2018 season? Is Brady supposed to accept whatever deal Bill put in front of him? After everything Brady did for the franchise he couldn’t even get a 2nd year guaranteed.

Gronk left us in a lurch, maybe you should check your memory. His timing on announcing his retirement was very shady, after free agency was over and he knew we didn't have a back up plan. He did that deliberately to stick it to the Patriots. And now he suddenly wanted to play again when Brady signed with Tampa ???? He was a great player for all those years but he didn't do us any favours at the end .