Debate Brady vs Belichick?

[lancerman]

You said the games wouldn't of unfolded the same. So I dono what he would of done.

Surely you aren't saying this team is better with cam then brady. No one would actually make that claim right?

I think it's a different team with Brady. This team either way would be a more effective running team than a passing team. Cam has 328 attempts. The last time Brady played a 16 game season and didn't hit 570 at a minimum was 2010.

So I guess I have to flip it to you and ask this: Is taking roughly 200 snaps this year away from our running attack which is clearly the best part of our offense worth having a better passing QB who still has to work with complete garbage? That's a real tough question because I don't know if these guys are going to get open enough to justify that even if Cam has been missing them sometimes when they are open. I don't really see there being that much extra value to be had out of an improved passer when the receivers are this bad.

That does not mean I think Cam is remotely close to Brady as a QB. He's not even in the tier below him. But we still might be better off selling out for the run the way are because the receiving corp is crippled.

Brady might get us an extra win or two that a complete trash QB play prevented us from. But on average it's going to be Brady getting pissed again and throwing the ball away because he isn't liking the looks

 

[Ring 6]

What?? His point makes perfect sense. What are you doing?

No it doesn’t. His point is that instead of staying year to year with no chance of being cut, he left because 2021 was guaranteed. There is no way that’s the case.

 

[carmelo15]

Gronk jumped ship? So he’s supposed to only play for the Pats but it was ok for Bill to try to trade him to the Lions before the 2018 season? Is Brady supposed to accept whatever deal Bill put in front of him? After everything Brady did for the franchise he couldn’t even get a 2nd year guaranteed.

Sad part is they are gonna say yes to this.
The **** is bull doing trading Gronk right before camp and he probably didn’t have a back up plan for losing him

 

[festy1986]

I think it's a different team with Brady. This team either way would be a more effective running team than a passing team. Cam has 328 attempts. The last time Brady played a 16 game season and didn't hit 570 at a minimum was 2010.

So I guess I have to flip it to you and ask this: Is taking roughly 200 snaps this year away from our running attack which is clearly the best part of our offense worth having a better passing QB who still has to work with complete garbage? That's a real tough question because I don't know if these guys are going to get open enough to justify that even if Cam has been missing them sometimes when they are open. I don't really see there being that much extra value to be had out of an improved passer when the receivers are this bad.

That does not mean I think Cam is remotely close to Brady as a QB. He's not even in the tier below him. But we still might be better off selling out for the run the way are because the receiving corp is crippled.

Brady might get us an extra win or two that a complete trash QB play prevented us from. But on average it's going to be Brady getting pissed again and throwing the ball away because he isn't liking the looks

I don't really have the answers just my gut tells me that brady would of managed atleast a 10 win season. I know this team sucks and that's asking alot of brady but he's not finished under 10 wins in almost 20 years.

That said, as I said before I'm not upset that brady is gone. His decision.

 

[Boomer B]

No it doesn’t. His point is that instead of staying year to year with no chance of being cut, he left because 2021 was guaranteed. There is no way that’s the case.

All along, what everyone was saying, is Brady didn’t want to go year to year. He felt he deserved a multi year guaranteed deal, which he couldn’t get in New England. In 2018 Bill could of signed him to a guaranteed multi year deal, but he wouldn’t. In 2019 Bill could have signed him to a guaranteed multi year deal, but he wouldn’t. It’s insane to say Brady “abandoned” the Patriots. If Bill wanted him on the team 2X since Aug 2018 he had the chance to make sure he was still here.

From an ESPN article from this year:

Nobody, not even those close to Brady, knew officially. Brady was in Miami for Super Bowl LIV, attending parties and NFL 100 festivities. So was Kraft, and league executives who conversed with him came away with the impression that his dream of Brady retiring a Patriot was unlikely. Nobody was budging. Brady wanted a commitment; the Patriots would commit only year to year. The tenet that had made the Patriots so hated and successful over the years -- the emotionless pursuit of victory -- seemed to finally touch the untouchable quarterback.

How Brady became a Buc, and all the signs we missed along the way

It's finally official: Tom Brady will not be forever a Patriot. But in reality, the quarterback's split with New England can be traced back much further than this offseason.

www.espn.com

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Gronk left us in a lurch, maybe you should check your memory. His timing on announcing his retirement was very shady, after free agency was over and he knew we didn't have a back up plan. He did that deliberately to stick it to the Patriots. And now he suddenly wanted to play again when Brady signed with Tampa ???? He was a great player for all those years but he didn't do us any favours at the end .

And why did he do that? Because like Brady, he was sick of Bill!

after 2017 and his screw up in SB 52, Bill managed to alienate the two most important pieces of the team which led them to leave. I don’t blame Gronk, he wanted to play with Tom and he didn’t want to play for Bill anymore. For me it’s Bill fault 100% they both left.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

No it doesn’t. His point is that instead of staying year to year with no chance of being cut, he left because 2021 was guaranteed. There is no way that’s the case.

Are you drinking? Because there was nothing guaranteed. The 2020 and 2021 years were void years. They would be automatically voided the first day of the new football year.

The only way Brady would still be under contract is if Bill offered him a new contract at the end of the 2019 season which he didn’t.

it’s not really hard to understand that going year to year, it’s easier for Bill to get rid of Brady whenever he wants than if you offer him a 3y contract.

Brady just wanted to feel wanted. After the 2019 Bill did not even approach Brady to talk about a new contract.

 

[Biffins]

If Belichick had Tampa's talent and an average QB, I think they are in the playoffs and could possibly be the #2-3 team in the AFC. If Tom was on the current Patriots without Bill, they would be missing the playoffs right now. They both have very different situations around them which is beyond them.

The debate between Brady and Belichick of who was more important to the Pats' success is far from over. In fact, it may never be answered.

But we will not know what Bill is without Tom until he actually gets a QB to build the team around and putting that team around him. Cam was a stop gap measure and he is showing why he could only get a $1 million salary. Whether it is a veteran or a rookie, Belichick needs to have a QB he wants to build an offense around.

As for Brady, he got dropped into a situation with a lot of talent on offense. And a pretty decent defense. Talent-wise, this is the best offense he has been on in years. Many years.

Yes, you can blame Belichick for a lot of the state of the current roster. But he gets a pass until he shows whether this year's struggles is just a one year correction or an ongoing trend.

And if BB doesn’t get a decent QB.... and has “bad luck” and has 3 more losing seasons.... then what?

 

[Biffins]

And why did he do that? Because like Brady, he was sick of Bill!

after 2017 and his screw up in SB 52, Bill managed to alienate the two most important pieces of the team which led them to leave. I don’t blame Gronk, he wanted to play with Tom and he didn’t want to play for Bill anymore. For me it’s Bill fault 100% they both left.

Agreed

 

[Ring 6]

Are you drinking? Because there was nothing guaranteed. The 2020 and 2021 years were void years. They would be automatically voided the first day of the new football year.

The only way Brady would still be under contract is if Bill offered him a new contract at the end of the 2019 season which he didn’t.

it’s not really hard to understand that going year to year, it’s easier for Bill to get rid of Brady whenever he wants than if you offer him a 3y contract.

Brady just wanted to feel wanted. After the 2019 Bill did not even approach Brady to talk about a new contract.

Why would Brady care about a guarantee? They weren’t replacing him. He has plenty of money. You really think Brady is in it for one extra year of pay when he can’t play any more?

 

[Steve102]

Why would Brady care about a guarantee? They weren’t replacing him. He has plenty of money. You really think Brady is in it for one extra year of pay when he can’t play any more?

Respect.

 

[Ring 6]

All along, what everyone was saying, is Brady didn’t want to go year to year. He felt he deserved a multi year guaranteed deal, which he couldn’t get in New England. In 2018 Bill could of signed him to a guaranteed multi year deal, but he wouldn’t. In 2019 Bill could have signed him to a guaranteed multi year deal, but he wouldn’t. It’s insane to say Brady “abandoned” the Patriots. If Bill wanted him on the team 2X since Aug 2018 he had the chance to make sure he was still here.

From an ESPN article from this year:

Nobody, not even those close to Brady, knew officially. Brady was in Miami for Super Bowl LIV, attending parties and NFL 100 festivities. So was Kraft, and league executives who conversed with him came away with the impression that his dream of Brady retiring a Patriot was unlikely. Nobody was budging. Brady wanted a commitment; the Patriots would commit only year to year. The tenet that had made the Patriots so hated and successful over the years -- the emotionless pursuit of victory -- seemed to finally touch the untouchable quarterback.

How Brady became a Buc, and all the signs we missed along the way

It's finally official: Tom Brady will not be forever a Patriot. But in reality, the quarterback's split with New England can be traced back much further than this offseason.

www.espn.com

I am suggesting that you think, not mimic “reports”. Do you live in a world wheee every “report” is true? Where everyone off the record tells a reporter that exact truth, had no agenda, isn’t trying to manipulate the media? I don’t. If this was the case where is the quote from Brady? Where is the quote from Kraft or belichick that it was the reason? There are none.
So think for a minute. The patriots took a dead money hit and have no QB. It is beyond stupid to think they would not pay him 50 million for 2 years. Brady drove to krafts house and told him he was leaving and there was nothing they could. Nothing they could do.
Why would Brady care about a second guaranteed year? He was realistically guaranteed a second year here because there was no one to replace him. It breaks down to arguing he left the dynasty because if he had a career ending injury (the only reason he would not have been back here in 21) he wanted to get paid to not play. Brady doesn’t need the money that bad.
What are the FACTS? (The certainly are reporters speculating or “reporting” planted stories). Brady said he wants to have fun. He grew tired of the grind that is necessary for a dynasty, knew the end was near, and wanted to trade dynasty and championships for fun. So he abandoned the franchise saying “there is nothing you can do”.
That’s fine, I still love the guy, just wish he went out a different way.

 

[Ring 6]

Respect.

Oh Jesus. Tom Brady the GOAT feels disrespected?
why? Because the patriots won’t give him a contract that pays him if he can’t play?
Respect, hahahahaha

 

[203Pat]

Oh Jesus. Tom Brady the GOAT feels disrespected?
why? Because the patriots won’t give him a contract that pays him if he can’t play?
Respect, hahahahaha

Because he won the team 6 rings, never maximized his value contract wise to enable Bill to sign players, then when it came time for Bill to make a commitment to him again Bill pulled the rug out from under Brady and made him play under these goofy one year incentive laden deals.

 

[1960Pats]

After years of making a fool of himself covering any sport outside of boxing, a bitter old Ron Borges FINALLY gets his "revenge" on BB after 20 years. That's a REALLY long time to carry a grudge. Only shows just how twisted Borges always was.

To top it off, the Wrecks Ryan comparison he's making has been out for a couple of weeks. I even posted it here a while ago. Did he think nobody would notice?

 

[Ring 6]

Because he won the team 6 rings, never maximized his value contract wise to enable Bill to sign players, then when it came time for Bill to make a commitment to him again Bill pulled the rug out from under Brady and made him play under these goofy one year incentive laden deals.

So your argument is
1) HE won 6 championships all by himself
2) Keeping him as his QB and making no moves to even bring in competition is the coach signaling a lack of commitment
3) he “never maximized his value” which was because he valued winning more than a few extra dollars but NOW that changed
4) with no competition on the roster he wanted the second year guaranteed. Why? He was getting the second year any way. The only way he wasn’t was if he suffered a career ending injury.
So your belief is that suddenly Brady changed everything he believed in because he feared he would have a career ending injury and not get paid for the first year he couldn’t play. Tom Brady. Really?

 

[RobertWeathers]

haha so for years what he did for the good of the team, and helped us win championships, is Tom being a ****ty negotiator and something we should take advantage of and BB is great for kicking him to the curb now? Great. WTH!

Yes. It's called professional sports. Some teams are disciplined. Some are not.

Tom had plenty of opportunities to move on, hold out, etc. He chose not to. That was HIS choice.

t's a reason why Tom has 6 championships and teams like the Ravens load up are a top team every 10 years. Draft, spend, win, over the cap, repeat.

Can't have it both ways. The very same financial model won this franchise AND TOM 6 Super Bowls.

Tom was paid $235m as a NEP. Don't even tell me he was poorly paid. Complete horse ****.

 

[lancerman]

Yes. It's called professional sports. Some teams are disciplined. Some are not.

Tom had plenty of opportunities to move on, hold out, etc. He chose not to. That was HIS choice.

t's a reason why Tom has 6 championships and teams like the Ravens load up are a top team every 10 years. Draft, spend, win, over the cap, repeat.

Can't have it both ways. The very same financial model won this franchise AND TOM 6 Super Bowls.

Tom was paid $235m as a NEP. Don't even tell me he was poorly paid. Complete horse ****.

Well he left now, so nobody should complain when we had opportunities to keep him

 

[sb1]

After years of making a fool of himself covering any sport outside of boxing, a bitter old Ron Borges FINALLY gets his "revenge" on BB after 20 years. That's a REALLY long time to carry a grudge. Only shows just how twisted Borges always was.

Expected. We’ll be hearing stuff like this a lot until Bill leaves and someone embraced by the Boston media like Parcells and Pete was becomes this team’s coach. Team may suck but at least the media will get their sound bites.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

@Ring 6 i want what you are smoking because it looks like it’s really really good!