Curran: "In my estimation... [Gonzo would like to] be treated as if he's at the table in 2027." [previous title: "say goodbye to gonzo"]

[n1997y]

This a very one sided stance.
As stated multiple times by multiple posters, NFL teams cut players all the time.
By definition they don't honour the contract they committed to.
But players are obligated to fulfill their contract when they vastly over perform?

All specious arguments
every contract I’ve been part of signing or negotiating has included some termination clause.
invoking that termination clause is literally honoring the contract
player contracts generally include bonus clauses for over performing

 

[BennyBledsoe]

You'd rather the team end up with a bunch of dead cap? That's what higher cash spending results in eventually. The cap is not crap. It does catch up to you.

 

[Real fan 02]

Garrett played all 17 games the last 2 years and he's only missed 2 games in the last 5 years.
I don't think health is a question with him.
Stafford is a legitimate injury risk with his age and bad back, however he had those same concerns last year and played 17 games.
Donald is definitely a question mark not having played for 2 years, but he is an actual freak show of a human being.

Understand. I was making a point that while all 3 guys have been excellent player's in the league especially Garrett. That it's a bold move to have hitched thier superbowl aspirations on the expectations that all 3 will make it through. Donald saw some videos on his workouts.. he's almost as freakishly strong as James Harrison. I do believe they will be in the NFCCG though. Remember this " scary" unbeatable Seahawks defense as the media calls them got lit up in the NFCCG by Stafford.

 

[upstater1]

We would have OLB/DE depth with Landry out and CB depth if we traded Gonzo. Middle class players are worth their weight in gold over a grinding NFL season.

Uh, no. Landry is middle class. That's a middle class contract these days. Top guys are getting $45m a year at this point at Landry's position.

Landry is making $14m per year. That's the equivalent of $7m 10 yrs ago. Landry is middle class.

When we say the Patriots have a talent deficiency, it's at the top of the roster. No All-Pros other than Maye and Gonzalez.

Denver has 6 All-Pros.

 

[n1997y]

Word was the Patriots introduced an injury clause for a preexisting injury

Reportedly there were issues about how it was handled by Gonzo and his advisors regarding both treatment and disclosure

 

[Triumph]

When did you become a Kraft suckup?

Youre very confused sonny boy. I was the only one on this messageboard to continually call out Kraft for his shoddy treatment of Mayo.

There are a infinite number of ways to split words so that you can lie withouot lying, and a cutthroat commodities businessman is going to know all of them. There are ways that 'the biggest contract for a CB EVAH' can also be something the player isn't going to like. We know absolutely nothing about the structure, when it would pay what, the length, nothing except vague ******** from Kraft.

But, you already know that Krafts contract was a joke. Cleverly worded to dupe Gonzalez's attorneys and agent. Surprising that Gonzo has stated that he wants to stay in NE.

I don't know what Kraft's word is worth among his NFL peers, but I notice they don't seem to want to put him in the HoF.

Because of the Orchids Day Spa and all the allegations of bending the rules.

Belichick did not get in either.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

You'd rather the team end up with a bunch of dead cap? That's what higher cash spending results in eventually. The cap is not crap. It does catch up to you.

Teams have a cap, and a floor.
Teams have to spend at least 90% of the cap in a given time block.
The only way the Pats could lag hundreds of millions dollars behind other teams would be by spending closer to the floor than the cap for multiple years.

 

[TommyD4207]

I think Kraft was just as spoiled as we are as fans.
Most of his wealth is the value of the team which is not liquid.
Thunder doesn’t have money to burn.

Except he just sold 8% of the team for 720 million in cash.

Its not my business to say what he should do with the cash (the new training facility was financed, like it should have been, like all high end property should be, so it not for that).

But he absolutely has plenty of cash free, in theory.

 

[PatsfanTN]

You'd rather the team end up with a bunch of dead cap? That's what higher cash spending results in eventually. The cap is not crap. It does catch up to you.

Like it has with the Rams? Come on man

 

[n1997y]

Except he just sold 8% of the team for 720 million in cash.

Its not my business to say what he should do with the cash (the new training facility was financed, like it should have been, like all high end property should be, so it not for that).

But he absolutely has plenty of cash free, in theory.

Estate planning.

That cash is his personally, not the team’s money. He can’t just spend it on team expenses.

Besides, they need to keep it for the IRS.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Like it has with the Rams? Come on man

You mean the team ranked 28th in terms of cash spending over the last 10 years?

 

[PatsfanTN]

You mean the team ranked 28th in terms of cash spending over the last 10 years?

You were talking about the cap catching up to you, show me how it has with the rams.

 

[raduray]

First, it’s not what Gonzo wants, it’s what his agent has convinced him he wants.

And that’s basically to feel he won the negotiation.

At the levels they’re at it’s not a dollar here or there, it’s not a payment schedule or a contract clause.

It’s a **** measuring contest.

And every millimeter, every micron, counts.

See, that there is an argument against circumscision.

 

[patman12]

I think the second sentence is more likely.
However, I'm guessing.

Same here

 

[patman12]

That agent has signed players with other teams, including Witherspoon.

Understood but different athletes in contract negotiations can want and ask for very different things. Maybe Witherspoon was ok having less guaranteed money or extending his rookie deal and Gonzo wanted things done differently, which complicates things.

My guess is that the sides are closer together than they are apart but whatever the final issues are, they are a big deal to both sides.

It’s not my money, I say pay the kid because he’s elite and that type of talent doesn’t come around often.

 

[slash83]

Understood but different athletes in contract negotiations can want and ask for very different things. Maybe Witherspoon was ok having less guaranteed money or extending his rookie deal and Gonzo wanted things done differently, which complicates things.

My guess is that the sides are closer together than they are apart but whatever the final issues are, they are a big deal to both sides.

It’s not my money, I say pay the kid because he’s elite and that type of talent doesn’t come around often.

Unfortunately it sounds like they’re more further apart than they are closer, just a gut from Gonzos tone of voice.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

So, the "Pats are so cheap wahhhh" argument annoyed me and I countered with the assertion that we spend to the cap every year.

Somebody countered with this rubbish argument going around that somehow we've spent the least of any team since 2016. I actually can't understand this as anything other than a propaganda piece. I do know there's a reddit post/thread dedicated to this proposition.

I went to SportTrac. Assuming their numbers are good, a few things stand out:
1. In an era where caps were always >$150M, we usually were within a few M of the max.
2. You can be toward the top of the "most cap room" list by rank, and still be within a few million of the cap. A few teams are insanely under the cap.
3. My biggest mea culpa, we were among those teams last year, the year before, and in 2020. Without explaining away specific cases, facts is facts. I've bolded the 4 years that we had double-digit millions of dollars under the cap.
4. It is not the case that, as the Kraft-haters say, we're the cheapest team in the league, we're perenniel cheapskates, etc.

Here are the raw numbers, cap space each year:

From SportTrac:

2016 NFL Team Salary Cap Tracker

2016. The amount of cap space for ranged from Cleveland at $46m to the NYJ at -.555M (554,565 over the cap). New England finished the year with $12M in cap space, 9th-least spendy. The avg. was about 11M. So by spending $13M NE could have spent the most. To spend the least, NE would have to spend $34M less.

2017. CLE, $60M in cap space to MIA, 38K in cap space. NE at $4M space, no. 23 of 32 in spendiness. Note, however, that to get to spendiest they needed only spend $4M more; to get to cheapest, they needed to spend $56M less. Get it? If the list being peddled around reddit etc. has any relation to reality, the difference between median and mean is doing a lot of work.

2018. CLE, $54M in cap space to MN, -$6M cap space ($6M over the cap.) NE $4M in space (24th, where 32nd is most spendy)

2019. IND, $42M in cap space to BAL, -$2M. NE $5M in cap space. 24 w 32 = spendiest.

2020. CLE, $30M in cap space to Sea, -1M. NE $24M in cap space, the 4th-most w/no 32 = spendiest

2021. JAX, $28M in cap space to Buffalo, -2M. NE $5M in cap space, 11th most

2022. CLE, $31M in cap space to NO, -828K. NE $2M in cap space. No. 23, with 32 = spendiest

2023. SF, $38M in cap space to BUF, 798K over the cap. NE at $529k space, no. 31 of 32 (highest in league without going over)

2024. SF $50M in cap space to BUF, 552K in cap space. NE at $36M, 3rd most.

2025. NE $48M in cap space (!) to IND, -563K in cap space.

At this writing it says we have $19M in 2026 space

 

[n1997y]

See, that there is an argument against circumscision.

AFAIK what they cut off doesn’t shorten it, so it’s irrelevant

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

So, the "Pats are so cheap wahhhh" argument annoyed me and I countered with the assertion that we spend to the cap every year.

Somebody countered with this rubbish argument going around that somehow we've spent the least of any team since 2016. I actually can't understand this as anything other than a propaganda piece. I do know there's a reddit post/thread dedicated to this proposition.

I went to SportTrac. Assuming their numbers are good, a few things stand out:
1. In an era where caps were always >$150M, we usually were within a few M of the max.
2. You can be toward the top of the "most cap room" list by rank, and still be within a few million of the cap. A few teams are insanely under the cap.
3. My biggest mea culpa, we were among those teams last year, the year before, and in 2020. Without explaining away specific cases, facts is facts. I've bolded the 4 years that we had double-digit millions of dollars under the cap.
4. It is not the case that, as the Kraft-haters say, we're the cheapest team in the league, we're perenniel cheapskates, etc.

Here are the raw numbers, cap space each year:

From SportTrac:

2016 NFL Team Salary Cap Tracker

2016. The amount of cap space for ranged from Cleveland at $46m to the NYJ at -.555M (554,565 over the cap). New England finished the year with $12M in cap space, 9th-least spendy. The avg. was about 11M. So by spending $13M NE could have spent the most. To spend the least, NE would have to spend $34M less.

2017. CLE, $60M in cap space to MIA, 38K in cap space. NE at $4M space, no. 23 of 32 in spendiness. Note, however, that to get to spendiest they needed only spend $4M more; to get to cheapest, they needed to spend $56M less. Get it? If the list being peddled around reddit etc. has any relation to reality, the difference between median and mean is doing a lot of work.

2018. CLE, $54M in cap space to MN, -$6M cap space ($6M over the cap.) NE $4M in space (24th, where 32nd is most spendy)

2019. IND, $42M in cap space to BAL, -$2M. NE $5M in cap space. 24 w 32 = spendiest.

2020. CLE, $30M in cap space to Sea, -1M. NE $24M in cap space, the 4th-most w/no 32 = spendiest

2021. JAX, $28M in cap space to Buffalo, -2M. NE $5M in cap space, 11th most

2022. CLE, $31M in cap space to NO, -828K. NE $2M in cap space. No. 23, with 32 = spendiest

2023. SF, $38M in cap space to BUF, 798K over the cap. NE at $529k space, no. 31 of 32 (highest in league without going over)

2024. SF $50M in cap space to BUF, 552K in cap space. NE at $36M, 3rd most.

2025. NE $48M in cap space (!) to IND, -563K in cap space.

At this writing it says we have $19M in 2026 space

Quote from Kraft in 2024:

“Look, we were blessed to have a coach in our system who was a great coach and also understood value,” Kraft added. “He ran a tight ship. They say we’ve been low spenders in the last 10 years, and that might be true, but we had a pretty good record. And we won three Super Bowls. But our coaches have always had the ability to spend at whatever level they wanted.”

They have been low on the cash spending list.
Kraft admitted as much.
Perhaps it's BB's fault as Kraft has suggested, because Bill "ran a tight ship".
And perhaps Kraft really did give Bill, and has given Wolf the unilateral power to spend what they want.

 

[slash83]

So, the "Pats are so cheap wahhhh" argument annoyed me and I countered with the assertion that we spend to the cap every year.

Somebody countered with this rubbish argument going around that somehow we've spent the least of any team since 2016. I actually can't understand this as anything other than a propaganda piece. I do know there's a reddit post/thread dedicated to this proposition.

I went to SportTrac. Assuming their numbers are good, a few things stand out:
1. In an era where caps were always >$150M, we usually were within a few M of the max.
2. You can be toward the top of the "most cap room" list by rank, and still be within a few million of the cap. A few teams are insanely under the cap.
3. My biggest mea culpa, we were among those teams last year, the year before, and in 2020. Without explaining away specific cases, facts is facts. I've bolded the 4 years that we had double-digit millions of dollars under the cap.
4. It is not the case that, as the Kraft-haters say, we're the cheapest team in the league, we're perenniel cheapskates, etc.

Here are the raw numbers, cap space each year:

From SportTrac:

2016 NFL Team Salary Cap Tracker

2016. The amount of cap space for ranged from Cleveland at $46m to the NYJ at -.555M (554,565 over the cap). New England finished the year with $12M in cap space, 9th-least spendy. The avg. was about 11M. So by spending $13M NE could have spent the most. To spend the least, NE would have to spend $34M less.

2017. CLE, $60M in cap space to MIA, 38K in cap space. NE at $4M space, no. 23 of 32 in spendiness. Note, however, that to get to spendiest they needed only spend $4M more; to get to cheapest, they needed to spend $56M less. Get it? If the list being peddled around reddit etc. has any relation to reality, the difference between median and mean is doing a lot of work.

2018. CLE, $54M in cap space to MN, -$6M cap space ($6M over the cap.) NE $4M in space (24th, where 32nd is most spendy)

2019. IND, $42M in cap space to BAL, -$2M. NE $5M in cap space. 24 w 32 = spendiest.

2020. CLE, $30M in cap space to Sea, -1M. NE $24M in cap space, the 4th-most w/no 32 = spendiest

2021. JAX, $28M in cap space to Buffalo, -2M. NE $5M in cap space, 11th most

2022. CLE, $31M in cap space to NO, -828K. NE $2M in cap space. No. 23, with 32 = spendiest

2023. SF, $38M in cap space to BUF, 798K over the cap. NE at $529k space, no. 31 of 32 (highest in league without going over)

2024. SF $50M in cap space to BUF, 552K in cap space. NE at $36M, 3rd most.

2025. NE $48M in cap space (!) to IND, -563K in cap space.

At this writing it says we have $19M in 2026 space

Spending cap space and actual cash spending are two different facts, Kraft has been at or near the bottom just about every year in cash spending.