Curran: "In my estimation... [Gonzo would like to] be treated as if he's at the table in 2027." [previous title: "say goodbye to gonzo"]

[PatsFanInVa]

This is very true.
BB and Brady could turn water into wine.
That was the best QB/Coach combo of all time.
Unfortunately that may have set the precedent, and Kraft thinks that's the way to succeed?
Or perhaps he's not as big of fan as he claims, and the bottom line is just as, or more important to him than winning.
And we aren't talking about losing money, we are talking about still making million and millions of dollars, but maybe a few million less.
Can Maye/Vrabs repeat what BB/Brady did with less?

Again, if you spend to the cap, it doesn't cost you less to avoid the megacontracts in favor of a large number of middle-class "depth" contracts. You also need the cheap contracts, meaning the great draft picks. But whether you make them honor their rookie deals or not, if you spend to the cap, Bob Kraft doesn't get to walk around thinking "I'm rich! I'm rich!" because he pays less to one player, if he is just going to use it on another player.

Given that he's spending to the cap every year, your quarrel is with the CBA, not this specific front office.

 

[Thelonious]

What's good for the goose is good for the ("golden"?) gander. If Gonzo chooses to be guided by untrammeled self-interest, as his demands might suggest he is, the team is equally justified in asserting their self-interest to the same degree. This would include a threat to force him to live up to his contract as it stands, and to the collectively bargained agreement with the NFLPA , which would put the franchise tag in play. If these team prerogatives are invoked and Gonzo chooses then not to deliver on his obligations under the contracts by feigning injury, not showing a responsible level of effort, and so forth, the team should sue him for beach of contract, seeking punitive damages. I would love to see such a lawsuit, which might put a damper on the obscene salaries players enjoy, which might then secondarily damper the obscene costs of watching the games. My actual preference at this point, given the extensive hassles involved with the above approach, would be to trade him. I'm frankly sick of his too-cool-for-school ******** anyway, and if you REALLY examine the numbers, - percentage of games actually paid, interception rate, and so on - he ain't all that anyway, truth be told. Fanboys will cry out for their binky, of course: I hope the team ignores them.

 

[slash83]

Whatever tf that means.

Do right by your players = Fulfill your end of the contract. Be reasonable in renegotiation. Be fair in bargaining. Not be their stooge and screw everybody else on the roster. Give him what he wants without limit and see the tone it sets and so on and so forth. It's stupid without knowing the relative positions. If his demands are stupid enough, letting him walk is exactly what preserves the team. News flash, the $7m/year guy isn't in solidarity with the Cap Wrecker. Neither is the lesser superstar or the guy who did not set the market for his position. "It's a business" works when a guy leaves too, to a point.

You behave ignorant of how contracts work in the NFL. You can exchange things like early negotiations for a new contract. But there is no world in which the contract does not matter, and, for example, you can go work for a nicer team if you ignore your obligations. In the NFL your contract is all that matters. That is why all this revolves around getting a new contract for him.

You spout kaka like "business is done differently nowadays" and you talk derogatorily about "contract isn't up talk" specifically like football's not a business. Then you want to reserve the right to say football is a business to excuse whatever a player wants to do or say.

Do you think that the players are your buddies? They're not. They're employees. (and not of us, of the Patriots organization.) We're customers of the organization. The players are its employees. Simple.

Fortunately, I do think this is going to end up being a non-issue, and he'll get done during the season.

Keep talking about playing out your contract when next to no player or organization does that.

 

[upstater1]

Prob bs but reports are Gonzo won’t sign during the season. Plus he might want to take his chance and wait, another team will pay him even more money next year when the cap goes up, again.

Both the Patriots and Gonzo lose in this situation because he'll never make back the $12m more that Witherspoon is paid than him this year, and he will have to wait an entire year for the signing bonus.

The Patriots would lose either the player or upwards of $20m because that's how much more they'd have to pay over the life of the contract if they sign him next year.

Both of them lose by not coming to an agreement now.

 

[upstater1]

Gonzo is the loser is that scenario.

1. He risks injury playing 2026 under his rookie contract where he would have been the highest paid NFL CB, but is now earning approximately 3 mil for his services.

2. The Pats still own Gonzos rights in 2027. Gonzo can sit home or play and earn 18 mil for 2027.

You're right that he loses some money, but a team would pay him a higher contract to make up some of it.

The Patriots lose here too since they lose his services during holdouts and they lose on his trade value.

 

[upstater1]

So this is the new professional athlete you signed a contract and if you don’t like it, you just want more money but if you suck, they have to honor the contract. Give me a break.

?

Uh... they don't have to honor the contract. NFL players get cut all the time. NFL teams cut players before their contract is up.

As for players not honoring their contract, it's part of the CBA that there's a 3 year look-in. And it's also part of the CBA that you can holdout for half the season and have the season actually count as a contract year.

These are things the owners all agreed to, and everyone (except the Patriots), is proceeding accordingly.

 

[Hyped]

Both.

Collins was a freelancer and Jones off the field issues ended his chance to stay.

But at the same time I think it’s pretty clear we have operated under financial constraints all along.
Yes we spend to the cap, but our cash spending is always near the bottom over time.
What does that means?
A 1 year 10 mill deal is the same cap hit as a 5 year 100 mill with a 40 mill signing bonus and a 1st year salary of 2 mill. Each cost 10 on the cap. One costs 10 in cash, the other 42.

We have always been tight with long term high value contracts, which is clearly due to having a cash budget.
No coach or gm would prefer one year deals to aging players over long term deals to players in their prime.
To me this says even more about what BB and Brady did here because thee were financial handcuffs.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter as long as we spend to the cap every year.

Cash up front only has the advantage of earning interest over the life of the contract.

In your example, guy A gets 10M then zero.....guy B gets 42M...then 12M annually the next 4 years if they continue to justify that salary. And guy A can still get 3-4 more years of 8M, 6M, 4M, 2M assuming he is a declining player on annual one year deals, or another team might pay him a nice signing bonus the year after...guy A ends up costing 30M...guy B may cost 100M if he plays out the contract and doesn't ask for another extension/raise....

We just can't break the bank for every good player that comes along...every dollar in Gonzo's pocket = a dollar out of a middle class guy's pocket.

But then again...we should look at what Philly is doing with a lot of voidable years on the back end of deals....

 

[upstater1]

What's good for the goose is good for the ("golden"?) gander. If Gonzo chooses to be guided by untrammeled self-interest, as his demands might suggest he is, the team is equally justified in asserting their self-interest to the same degree. This would include a threat to force him to live up to his contract as it stands, and to the collectively bargained agreement with the NFLPA , which would put the franchise tag in play. If these team prerogatives are invoked and Gonzo chooses then not to deliver on his obligations under the contracts by feigning injury, not showing a responsible level of effort, and so forth, the team should sue him for beach of contract, seeking punitive damages. I would love to see such a lawsuit, which might put a damper on the obscene salaries players enjoy, which might then secondarily damper the obscene costs of watching the games. My actual preference at this point, given the extensive hassles involved with the above approach, would be to trade him. I'm frankly sick of his too-cool-for-school ******** anyway, and if you REALLY examine the numbers, - percentage of games actually paid, interception rate, and so on - he ain't all that anyway, truth be told. Fanboys will cry out for their binky, of course: I hope the team ignores them.

The Patriots should have never signed players like Davis and Landry, nor traded a first rounder for AJ Brown, if they carry this kind of posture toward their players (when no other teams do). It makes absolutely no sense to give away premium draft picks for an older player, or a ton of cash for older players, and you let your younger All-Pros walk.

That's classic mismangement right there. Very Jet-sy.

If we weren't prepared to give Gonzalez money up front, why in the world did we trade a first for AJ Brown? This team is going nowhere without Gonzalez.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Keep talking about playing out your contract when next to no player or organization does that.

Nevertheless, fulfilling your contract is your basic obligation. If you want out, you give something up. You just don't put out a release to the Felgers of the world or whatever saying "I took less in this way" or "I took less guaranteed money" or whatever, to "buy yourself" that extra year of prime earnings. It's not free. Nothing is.

His obligation is 1 more year of his current contract. What's he giving up to get out of it?

 

[upstater1]

Ultimately, it doesn't matter as long as we spend to the cap every year.

Cash up front only has the advantage of earning interest over the life of the contract.

In your example, guy A gets 10M then zero.....guy B gets 42M...then 12M annually the next 4 years if they continue to justify that salary. And guy A can still get 3-4 more years of 8M, 6M, 4M, 2M assuming he is a declining player on annual one year deals, or another team might pay him a nice signing bonus the year after...guy A ends up costing 30M...guy B may cost 100M if he plays out the contract and doesn't ask for another extension/raise....

We just can't break the bank for every good player that comes along...every dollar in Gonzo's pocket = a dollar out of a middle class guy's pocket.

But then again...we should look at what Philly is doing with a lot of voidable years on the back end of deals....

The middle class guys earning a huge chuck of money with the Patriots are not force multipliers the way Gonzalez is. We can replace Davis and Landry's output. We can't replace Gonzalez's.

 

[Ring 6]

Ultimately, it doesn't matter as long as we spend to the cap every year.

Cash up front only has the advantage of earning interest over the life of the contract.

In your example, guy A gets 10M then zero.....guy B gets 42M...then 12M annually the next 4 years if they continue to justify that salary. And guy A can still get 3-4 more years of 8M, 6M, 4M, 2M assuming he is a declining player on annual one year deals, or another team might pay him a nice signing bonus the year after...guy A ends up costing 30M...guy B may cost 100M if he plays out the contract and doesn't ask for another extension/raise....

We just can't break the bank for every good player that comes along...every dollar in Gonzo's pocket = a dollar out of a middle class guy's pocket.

But then again...we should look at what Philly is doing with a lot of voidable years on the back end of deals....

It does matter. A lot. If you won’t spend cash you won’t get or keep top players.
Guy B is not nearly as good a player as guy A. That’s how you get him in a one year deal.

 

[Ring 6]

This is very true.
BB and Brady could turn water into wine.
That was the best QB/Coach combo of all time.
Unfortunately that may have set the precedent, and Kraft thinks that's the way to succeed?
Or perhaps he's not as big of fan as he claims, and the bottom line is just as, or more important to him than winning.
And we aren't talking about losing money, we are talking about still making million and millions of dollars, but maybe a few million less.
Can Maye/Vrabs repeat what BB/Brady did with less?

I think Kraft was just as spoiled as we are as fans.
Most of his wealth is the value of the team which is not liquid.
Thunder doesn’t have money to burn.

 

[slash83]

Nevertheless, fulfilling your contract is your basic obligation. If you want out, you give something up. You just don't put out a release to the Felgers of the world or whatever saying "I took less in this way" or "I took less guaranteed money" or whatever, to "buy yourself" that extra year of prime earnings. It's not free. Nothing is.

His obligation is 1 more year of his current contract. What's he giving up to get out of it?

Keep talking about something nobody does, player or organization, but keep at it man lol.

 

[PatsfanTN]

Wait wait, maybe it’s 4d chess Kraft is playing. Keep the Seahawks guessing on if they need to plan for Gonzales or not. Right? Right?

I’ll keep saying it, PAY him. This defense takes a BIG step back without him and nonexistent pass rush.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Nevertheless, fulfilling your contract is your basic obligation. If you want out, you give something up. You just don't put out a release to the Felgers of the world or whatever saying "I took less in this way" or "I took less guaranteed money" or whatever, to "buy yourself" that extra year of prime earnings. It's not free. Nothing is.

His obligation is 1 more year of his current contract. What's he giving up to get out of it?

This a very one sided stance.
As stated multiple times by multiple posters, NFL teams cut players all the time.
By definition they don't honour the contract they committed to.
But players are obligated to fulfill their contract when they vastly over perform?
And, you could also ask what the Pats are gaining to "get out of his current deal".
They are gaining signing him now, before the market escalates next year which it undoubtedly will.
They are also gaining the advantage of a fully committed Gonzo, and a message to the team that if you play well and conduct yourself professionally off the field, you will be rewarded.
This is not an outlier, this is the norm for high performing rookies, they negotiate and sign extensions when they can as determined by the CBA. before their current deals expires.
Teams do this, pretty much every team does this.
The Pats not doing it isn't the rule, it's the exception.

 

[Triumph]

You're right that he loses some money, but a team would pay him a higher contract to make up some of it.

But the Pats would ask to be paid too. A 1st is a given, but might NE want more?

The Patriots lose here too since they lose his services during holdouts and they lose on his trade value.

Yes, the Pats lose a HOF CB (I believe that Gonzo is), but Im not so sure that the Pats would allow Gonzo to go without cashing in.

 

[Uptown]

Goddells dumbass even got extended before Gonzo

Gonzo & his agent were waiting to see the terms/ figures in the Goddell contract before coming to an agreement. Per sources, not only does he aim to be the highest paid CB, but aspires to become co-commissioner of the league as well. We should see a deal done within the next 24 hours..

 

[rochrist]

It makes no sense for Kraft to voluntarily make statements in support of Gonzo and his new contract and then not follow through. Every sports media outlet in the country would rip Kraft for being a lying dog. Bob Kraft is still one of the top most influential owners in the NFL and he has a seat at the big table upfront. If what you claim is fact then Krafts word would be worth 5hit amongst his NFL peers and to potential players wanting to sign in NE.

That is not the kind of franchise that Kraft is building post Belichick.

When did you become a Kraft suckup? There are a infinite number of ways to split words so that you can lie withouot lying, and a cutthroat commodities businessman is going to know all of them. There are ways that 'the biggest contract for a CB EVAH' can also be something the player isn't going to like. We know absolutely nothing about the structure, when it would pay what, the length, nothing except vague ******** from Kraft.

I don't know what Kraft's word is worth among his NFL peers, but I notice they don't seem to want to put him in the HoF.

 

[mgteich]

QBs are the face of teams and Maye will soon be one of the biggest names in the game. People know who Drake Maye is. I bet there are people who have no idea who Gonzo is, or Surtain, or Witherspoon etc.

I

Why cant the deal be completed during the season?

gonzo has no interest

 

[rochrist]

Why cant the deal be completed during the season?

Apparentlty the concept of a player being unwilling to negotiate during the season is foreign to you even though it's happend HUNDREDS OF TIMES BEFORE.