Can we finally stop pretending that Cam is good?

[One-If-By-Sea]

I don't buy it either. I'm sorry, but Brady had 24 passing tds with basically the same cr@p offense.

Cam newton has 5 passing TDs and my eyes tell me his pocket presence stinks and his mechanics are poor. It's 50-50 every time he throws the ball whether it will be a laser or be at the receivers feet. Other guys like Jeff howe have said he's missing reads.

Not saying the receivers aren't a problem. They are. But to say that's why cam has 5 tds to this point and absolve him?

And I was a big proponent of cam early in the season it just seems he's regressed since covid

Agreed. Or his shoulder or legs are getting weaker, or he is injured.

 

[crawhammer]

He is the GOAT coach, there is no debate here. His coaching is the reason we are 6-7. Put any other coach instead and we are probably 2-11 right now.

now if you talk about his team building that is different. If BB finish his career here without another winning season, it will be more an indictment of his team building than coaching.

Belichick failed miserably in Cleveland. He was 5-13 before Brady accidentally became his starting quarterback. From there they went 14-3 and won their first Super Bowl. Every Super Bowl title has concluded with Brady having led a fourth quarter game-winning drive. Brady had them in position to win 3 more but Belichick's defenses ultimately surrendered leads. Belichick's defense (and his coaching) was so incompetent in SB LII that it squandered Brady's greatest single performance ever. Bottom line is Brady's far more responsible for the Dynasty than Belichick. And it's not even close.

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

Bill had no choice. Stids is not the cure. The season is not ending well, no matter what.
Covid kinda put the kabosh on the whole league this year.

"It is what it is "

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Bill had no choice. Stids is not the cure. The season is not ending well, no matter what.
Covid kinda put the kabosh on the whole league this year.

"It is what it is "

or “it is what you make it!”

is the state of our current roster because of the virus? Partially, 8 players did opt out.

is the state of our current roster because of poor drafting and personnel decisions? Definitely, according to some on this board,

is the state of our current roster because ownership interfered with the transition plan at the qb position a few years ago? No doubt,I think, this is the biggest single reason we are sucking toilet water this year. Ownership fell in love with a qb and failed to realize that at the end of the day, the nfl is a business and qb’s are depreciating assets with a limited useful life.

 

[lancerman]

I don't buy it either. I'm sorry, but Brady had 24 passing tds with basically the same cr@p offense.

Cam newton has 5 passing TDs and my eyes tell me his pocket presence stinks and his mechanics are poor. It's 50-50 every time he throws the ball whether it will be a laser or be at the receivers feet. Other guys like Jeff howe have said he's missing reads.

Not saying the receivers aren't a problem. They are. But to say that's why cam has 5 tds to this point and absolve him?

And I was a big proponent of cam early in the season it just seems he's regressed since covid

It’s worth noting Brady had Edelman playing more, Gordon playing at the start of the year, AB when he lit up Miami and got some touchdowns and a healthier Dorsett.

Look at Brady’s game logs in the second

 

[captain stone]

Just started reading this thread at page 11 (post #201) so apologies if this has been already asked, but:

Was anyone really believing/pretending that Cant was actually good?

 

[1960Pats]

There has been lots of pretending going on this season. The fanbase and Belichick are used to winning, so such a shocking decline makes many of us cling to delusions. One delusion is that Cam is going to become a solid quarterback or there is something there with Stidham. Another is that this roster is headed in a positive direction with the current talent. And finally, there is the delusion that free agents can solve our problems so let's invest years of cap money on "sure things."

Yes, we have a few good pieces. But most of the roster is past its prime and overpriced free agents will just extend a slow decline. There is no magical solution other than being ruthless with trimming the roster and loading up on picks. If we can go young and cheap, the turnaround will be much quicker than sliding into a rut where we make the playoffs some seasons but can't compete for championships against top clubs.

We're in a conference with Mahomes. Even with Brady, Mahomes is a beast that would be difficult to overcome. So, if our goal is winning a title rather than looking pretty solid every season, we need to swing for the fences through drafts rather than settle on a JAG at quarterback.

I admit that Can't Newton is not the answer. We have visual proof of that. But I'm not sold on Stid being a dud yet, but that's also possible.

I think there might be a change in the pay structure for FAs due to a change in the cap, so it's possible that we could fill more holes there in 2021 than in a normal year, even at QB.

The Pats have had success against Mahomes and KC, even coming close this year with Stidham and Hoyer playing like crap. KC is not as invincible as many are making them out to be. There's also the outrageous Mahomes contract that may have an impact on their future roster.

I wouldn't give up on the Pats' future quite yet.

 

[Ring 6]

Just started reading this thread at page 11 (post #201) so apologies if this has been already asked, but:

Was anyone really believing/pretending that Cant was actually good?

You know the old saying opinions are like ***holes everyone has one but the corollary is no matter how bizarre the opinion you can find people supporting it.

 

[1960Pats]

Just started reading this thread at page 11 (post #201) so apologies if this has been already asked, but:

Was anyone really believing/pretending that Cant was actually good?

Didn't you read the Extend Newton thread? Thankfully that has gone extinct but it lasted far too long than it should have. There are probably still some holdouts but even they can't come forward now. It's painfully obvious that Can't is not the answer and never was.

 

[sb1]

Belichick failed miserably in Cleveland.

No he didn’t.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

“Stid is not the answer” but could he possibly be worse than Cam? You’re telling me he can’t complete 10 pass for 100yds and .5 td a game?

 

[PScottman]

He seemed to be with no plan to finish the action.

It's actually more than that - when has he started running, bought time and hit a receiver downfield this year? I cant remember many if any. It's college level running QB stuff: make one read, if it's not there take off running with no intention of throwing to make the second level try to stay with their man instead of peel off to clobber him.

 

[varjao]

Cam started the season well, the first 2 games. Then he got Covid, when he got back against Denver his mechanics were so awful and has been since then that I think at some point he reinjured his shoulder and they are keeping that indoors. He's doing so much effort to throw a pass he has to have a hip or shoulder injury. He was never the most polished passer but he was better than that.

He has exposed himself to a beating since week 1 , while I appreciate the effort I want no part with a QB that is always recovering from a beating and never 100%.

 

[FCB02062]

No he didn’t.

Please enlighten us as to how Bill The Cleveland Coach was not an utter failure? He was 31-46, 1-1 in the playoffs with zero division titles, finished in 3rd or worse every season but 1 (finished 2d in 94)....and he drafted a ****ing FULLBACK in the first round. His drafts yielded exactly ONE player w post season honors (safety Eric Turner). And his coaching tree blows as well

 

[sb1]

Please enlighten us as to how Bill The Cleveland Coach was not an utter failure? He was 31-46, 1-1 in the playoffs with zero division titles, finished in 3rd or worse every season but 1 (finished 2d in 94)....and he drafted a ****ing FULLBACK in the first round. His drafts yielded exactly ONE player w post season honors (safety Eric Turner). And his coaching tree blows as well

Took a team completely devoid of talent to the verge of contention before the plug was pulled on the franchise. Set the team up with draft picks that allowed the new Ravens franchise to pick guys like Ray Lewis.

Factually inaccurate to say he was a failure. His W-L record in his last season couldn’t be any more meaningless as the franchise was terminated.

And who was that “1” in the win column against in the playoffs?

 

[PScottman]

The reason to play Stidham at this point has nothing to do with if he's the starting QB of the future, it's to see, while he's still on a rookie contract at almost no cost, if he can be a BACKUP or if they have to go pick up TWO QBs next year at significant cap hits from what they have available (and need across other positions).

There's much more to this than the very superficial "yes/no" approach without any nuance. No team can have all-stars at every position. In fact they will be weak at certain positions EVERY year. Why else would you need a trade deadline and waiver wire?

So looking at this from the perspective of a year they're not going to make the playoffs; the ability to truly evaluate the ENTIRE roster to make better, more informed decisions about next year - who will you even keep as backups, who can SAVE you cap money to fill bigger holes that are high cost (such as the WR and TE which are also needs in addition to the QB)? Who can still potentially improve vs regress due to age, injury, or mental capability?

We always look at these questions in binary (all or nothing) instead of multi-faceted and complex.

 

[sb1]

The reason to play Stidham at this point has nothing to do with if he's the starting QB of the future, it's to see, while he's still on a rookie contract at almost no cost, if he can be a BACKUP or if they have to go pick up TWO QBs next year at significant cap hits from what they have available (and need across other positions).

They can do that right now with the way they’re playing him in mop up. No need to start him. He will never be a starter for anyone barring injury.

 

[PScottman]

They can do that right now with the way they’re playing him in mop up.

No you cant. Backups DONT just come in mid-game - they also spot start when the starter is hurt. He has only come in, behind, facing all out rush (and the Ram's DL "not trying hard" meme goes both ways - the Pats OL wasn't "all in" by that time either). That's it. What do coaches always say: "we need to see players in a lot of different situations".

If the other team actually has to respect the running game for example - haven't seen that in Stidham's spot time. What about playing with the lead? Nope, haven't seen that either. A gameplan designed to his strengths and to cover his weaknesses vs Cam's or Hoyer's? Haven't seen that either. And if you think he get those snaps in practice too for the coaches to 100% know what he "is" during the course of installing a gameplan this season - you don't know anything about football. The backup gets maybe 1/5th of the throws and in just a small amount of the scenarios they walkthrough. The third QB is usually running the scout team running someone else's gameplan.

What is the ultimate purpose of starting ANY QB then the rest of this season if they all suck? Shouldn't they just run the wildcat all the time then?

 

[sb1]

No you cant. Backups DONT just come in mid-game - they also spot start when the starter is hurt. He has only come in, behind, facing all out rush (and the Ram's DL "not trying hard" meme goes both ways - the Pats OL wasn't "all in" by that time either). That's it. What do coaches always say: "we need to see players in a lot of different situations".

If the other team actually has to respect the running game for example - haven't seen that in Stidham's spot time. What about playing with the lead? Nope, haven't seen that either. A gameplan designed to his strengths and to cover his weaknesses vs Cam's or Hoyer's? Haven't seen that either. And if you think he get those snaps in practice too for the coaches to 100% know what he "is" during the course of installing a gameplan this season - you don't know anything about football. The backup gets maybe 1/5th of the throws and in just a small amount of the scenarios they walkthrough. The third QB is usually running the scout team running someone else's gameplan.

What is the ultimate purpose of starting ANY QB then the rest of this season if they all suck? Shouldn't they just run the wildcat all the time then?

Perfect opportunity then to audition Cam to see if he is worth bringing back in some capacity on a cheap deal while the team drafts another QB.

 

[PScottman]

Perfect opportunity then to audition Cam to see if he is worth bringing back in some capacity on a cheap deal while the team drafts another QB

Somehow the coaching staff seeing Cam start all season so far ISN'T enough to know, but seeing 1/5th of that, only in practice and mop up from Stidham IS enough to know.