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Can we finally stop pretending that Cam is good?

2021 Patriots Season:
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Sun
Sep 12th

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sb1

Pro Bowl Player
Somehow the coaching staff seeing Cam start all season so far ISN'T enough to know, but seeing 1/5th of that, only in practice and mop up from Stidham IS enough to know.
Hopefully the Pats get Edelman back soon and Wynn back next week. With a healthier offense it’s worth giving it to Cam the rest of the way to see if he’s worth bringing back cheap. I believe this is what they’re thinking. Obviously if Cam wants to get paid - seeya.

I don’t want Stidham here next year. Shouldn’t be hard to find someone better in the draft.
 

lancerman

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
“Stid is not the answer” but could he possibly be worse than Cam? You’re telling me he can’t complete 10 pass for 100yds and .5 td a game?
Can he extend plays on run, keep teams off balance in run games, score some rushing TD’s and at least command the offense at a competent level?
 

Lagaffe_07

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Can he extend plays on run, keep teams off balance in run games, score some rushing TD’s and at least command the offense at a competent level?
For starter Cam doesn’t command anything. Second you have running back to score from the 1 yards line. Cam hasn’t run very well on designed run that are not inside the 2-3 of the 1st down line. We he do run outside of those 3 yards he slide after 2-3y The only thing he is good this is year is on the power short yardage run. And you can cover a part of that with running back. Stidham is not Brady. He is fairly mobile and can scramble and get his share of yards.
 

lancerman

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
For starter Cam doesn’t command anything. Second you have running back to score from the 1 yards line. Cam hasn’t run very well on designed run that are not inside the 2-3 of the 1st down line. We he do run outside of those 3 yards he slide after 2-3y The only thing he is good this is year is on the power short yardage run. And you can cover a part of that with running back. Stidham is not Brady. He is fairly mobile and can scramble and get his share of yards.
You should watch the run game more then. Cam has been doing a great job identifying coverage and calling blocks to set up the run. Pretty much everyone who has followed him since Carolina and even here has commented on it, he’s a huge asset with experience there. I am very doubtful a second year QB is capable of doing it that well. Cam just by virtue of being there makes run defenses more passive because they don’t want to bite in case keeps it. He’s also made plays with his legs plenty of times and being able to score at goal line is integral and it’s not something just anybody can do as well as Cam. Cam has 11 rushing TD’s. The rest of the team has 8. Cam is our second best rusher in yards. Stidham is simply not going to do that.

I would not be so quick to dismiss that. Considering the run attack is the only positive on offense. You can’t just plug and play there or assume another RB will the hole of all of that. That’s too much in the positive. I know it’s sexy to focus only on passing, but this is really not a team that is going to win on passing and we need to optimize rushing.

As far as passing, Stidham hasn’t really shown much to even make a case for himself there. Stidham until the last two games had had interceptions everytime he stepped on the field. As far as dealing with pressure, in comparable situations he’s been equal or worse (last Thursday he basically picked up where Cam left off in getting pressured and sacked against what theoretically should have been a more tired defense in garbage time). He has not shown the deep ball ability Cam flashed against Seattle or early in the Rams game. The only real advantage and it’s barely that Stidham has is he’s more willing to go for a quick dump off. Granted Cam has had more time to do it, but he shows more positives and the negatives are nearly equal overall. It would be one thing if Stidham came in and he was solid. But usually comes in and has the same issues as Cam without something notably better.

So really it comes down to Cam is much better for the rush game, he has more experience, he has leadership qualities and all the players love him, and in the passing game the only difference is Stidham has been quicker to take dump offs and Cam has been more willing to try to make plays and has flashed some better deep balls.

So we are just hoping there’s something about Stidham that he hasn’t shown yet on the field or to the coaches in practice and it will compensate for what we pretty much know he lack that we lose for taking away Cam. And quite frankly even if he was marginally better passing (this is not the case and there is no evidence he is even better than Cam) we have a crap receiver Corp and we aren’t going to win or compensate with a marginally better passer. It’s just as likely all the bad qualities we’ve seen are made exponentially worse by giving him more field time.

It’s just way too much wishful thinking for me to say the coaches are wrong
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
I get the hoping and wishing that Stidham would be our next great NE QB. I really do. Going into the season I wished the same thing.

Then reality hit hard, as it usually does.

The best QB on this roster and the one that gives us the best chance every week is Cam Newton. Fact, not opinion.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
It's actually more than that - when has he started running, bought time and hit a receiver downfield this year? I cant remember many if any. It's college level running QB stuff: make one read, if it's not there take off running with no intention of throwing to make the second level try to stay with their man instead of peel off to clobber him.
Yeah there was this statistic someone posted very early in the season, if not before the season started, that showed his career attempts, completions & yards while throwing on the run...Very, very low number of attempts - shockingly so, given his reputation - and an even lower completion %, lower than his overall %...I figured the sample size was too low to draw any definitive conclusions, but now I have come to this definitive conclusion: Cant has never thrown often or well while on the run because he sucks at it and has never bothered himself with trying to improve upon it...Absolutely inexcusable.
 

patriot1136

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Someone earlier mentioned Edelman. Is it realistic he will be back this season? He would definitely be a boost to the offense and would help out Cam but I didn't think he would be recovered for this season. Plus he would have to shake off a lot of rust. I'd rather him heal up 100% and come back next year.
 

JMC00

Pro Bowl Player
I'm not gonna argue against someone if they think Cam is bad but I wouldn't be opposed to see him (for a team friendly price) get a full off-season go out and sign a few guys like Allen Robinson or Kenny Golladay , Hunter Henry, and another WR like Marvin Jones or Curtis Samuel and take Kyle Pitts in the 1st and Mac Jones in the 2nd.

Robinson/Golladay
Jones/Samuel
Meyers
Harry
Edelman (reduced snap role)

Henry
Pitts


Harris and Michel won't be seeing 8-9 guys in the box with those receivers
 
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amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
I'm not gonna argue against someone if they think Cam is bad but I wouldn't be opposed to see him (for a team friendly price) get a full off-season go out and sign a few guys like Allen Robinson or Kenny Golladay , Hunter Henry, and another WR like Marvin Jones or Curtis Samuel and take Kyle Pitts in the 1st and Mac Jones in the 2nd.

Robinson/Golladay
Jones/Samuel
Meyers
Harry

Henry
Pitts
I like this scenario actually, nice job, but realistically do you still Bill making any of those moves? He just does not pay for high priced FAs at all at the skill positions. If you we get a better QB then we don't need as many great players at the skill spots.
 

Bonzo

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Cam in his 30's reminds me of Dwight Howard in his 30's. He still looks the part but it's clear that, under the hood, the injuries have dampened even his presumed strengths. (His yds/carry is a full yard off his career avg. His passing otoh, save for that baffling td-to-int ratio and an actually decent comp%, is actually basically consistent with what he's shown post-MVP: low yds/gm, low yds/att, low pass rtg, he's always had high sack%, etc.)

It's a shame because he seems like an excellent dude. He'd need to show a lot next three weeks to convince anybody he isn't washed.
 
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sean10mm

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Newton is a decade younger than Brady and his arm looks deader by miles. His throwing motion just looks so labored sometimes it makes me wince. As much as he always leaned on running, he used to be able to effortlessly toss bombs downfield too.

He's more a victim of the offense's woes than the villain but he's not, you know, actually GOOD anymore either.
 

lancerman

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Newton is a decade younger than Brady and his arm looks deader by miles. His throwing motion just looks so labored sometimes it makes me wince. As much as he always leaned on running, he used to be able to effortlessly toss bombs downfield too.

He's more a victim of the offense's woes than the villain but he's not, you know, actually GOOD anymore either.
He’s not the same. But his skill set is more downfield throws and we lack the talent for it
 

PScottman

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
his skill set is more downfield throws
His skillset is running the ball. If he is so limited that all he can do is run or have to have a perfect pocket for 4-5 seconds to toss 20-30 yard throws, the defense can sit in basically a modified man cover-2 with everyone else on the line, shut down the run and have him throwing into coverage every time.

If your QB cannot use the whole field...99% of NFL defenses will shut that offense down.
 

lancerman

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
His skillset is running the ball. If he is so limited that all he can do is run or have to have a perfect pocket for 4-5 seconds to toss 20-30 yard throws, the defense can sit in basically a modified man cover-2 with everyone else on the line, shut down the run and have him throwing into coverage every time.

If your QB cannot use the whole field...99% of NFL defenses will shut that offense down.
And we don’t have a better QB on the roster so it doesn’t matter.
 

1960Pats

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Yeah there was this statistic someone posted very early in the season, if not before the season started, that showed his career attempts, completions & yards while throwing on the run...Very, very low number of attempts - shockingly so, given his reputation - and an even lower completion %, lower than his overall %...I figured the sample size was too low to draw any definitive conclusions, but now I have come to this definitive conclusion: Cant has never thrown often or well while on the run because he sucks at it and has never bothered himself with trying to improve upon it...Absolutely inexcusable.
What do we make of the fact that this season he's had his 2nd highest completion % of his career, and it's higher than any of his playoffs or his MVP season?

I never thought that Cant was much to brag about and his woeful performance this season didn't change that. He's a smooth talker though. If he's here next year I'll puke.
 

1960Pats

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Someone earlier mentioned Edelman. Is it realistic he will be back this season? He would definitely be a boost to the offense and would help out Cam but I didn't think he would be recovered for this season. Plus he would have to shake off a lot of rust. I'd rather him heal up 100% and come back next year.
The Edelman we know is gone forever. He was great while he lasted but never got the recognition he deserved.
 

1960Pats

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Newton is a decade younger than Brady and his arm looks deader by miles. His throwing motion just looks so labored sometimes it makes me wince. As much as he always leaned on running, he used to be able to effortlessly toss bombs downfield too.

He's more a victim of the offense's woes than the villain but he's not, you know, actually GOOD anymore either.
He was never a good passer and he blows now.
 

Vindicate

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
“Stid is not the answer” but could he possibly be worse than Cam? You’re telling me he can’t complete 10 pass for 100yds and .5 td a game?

Cam is pretty likely to turn the ball over once a game.

Stid is guaranteed to turn the ball over.

Stid's slight advantage in the short passing game does not speak to the strengths of this team right now. Cam's mere presence as a mobile QB, unfortunately, affords us the best opportunity to win games.

I'm not saying I love Cam's production here - the passing aspect is laughable. But Stid is just not ready/maybe not NFL caliber.
 

jdlboot14

Practice Squad Player
Cam is pretty likely to turn the ball over once a game.

Stid is guaranteed to turn the ball over.

Stid's slight advantage in the short passing game does not speak to the strengths of this team right now. Cam's mere presence as a mobile QB, unfortunately, affords us the best opportunity to win games.

I'm not saying I love Cam's production here - the passing aspect is laughable. But Stid is just not ready/maybe not NFL caliber.
I would argue Cam is as likely to turn the ball over as Stid. I mean, Cam's screen pass INT last week was far worse than Stid's first ever pass attempt last year. And you can't argue that Stid hasn't performed much better in his short opportunities @KC and @LAR. Each time he looks more comfortable. (although you can't expect much in the situation last week - blowout, OL collapsing, Rams DL on pass-rush highs)
 

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