Building A Team With A QB Who Is Close To The Top 10

[MahomestoKelce]

It shouldn't take one playoff game for front offices to realize a very good to elite QB is usually a prerequisite to winning a SB these days.

There are outliers (Flacco, Foles, 2013 version of Wilson, Johnson, Dilfer). But most of those guys either played elite (Foles & Flacco) or were surrounded by stacked positions everywhere else (00 Ravens, 02 Bucs, 13 Seahawks).

The NFL continues to be a passing league. More and more every year. Chances are we won't see an 85 Bears or 00 Ravens type defense carry a QB to a SB again.

 

[MahomestoKelce]

Yup. The Patriots dynasty made people forget how important superstar receievers and skill position players are.

2000s Colts and broncos with Peyton had excellent receiving cores

70s steelers had Lynn Swann, John Stallworth

90s broncos had Elway, but also had Terrell Davis and Shannon Sharpe, rod Smith

90s Cowboys- the Triplets, Larry Johnston, Orlando pace

94 -49ers - Steve young, Jerry Rice, deion Sanders

The fact they only got one SB (Against Rex Grossman in the rain) between 1999-2011 is mind boggling.

As is the number of one and dones.

99: 1st round bye. Lose at home to Titans in 2nd round.

2000: Lost to Miami and Jay Fielder in first round.

2002: Blown out in round one by Jets

2005: 14-2. Get upset at home by Steelers in first PO game.

2007: One and done at home in second round. Lose to SD.

2008: One and done in SD.

2010: Lose at home to Sanchez and Jets in WC round.

That is terrible.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

The fact they only got one SB (Against Rex Grossman in the rain) between 1999-2011 is mind boggling.

As is the number of one and dones.

99: 1st round bye. Lose at home to Titans in 2nd round.

2000: Lost to Miami and Jay Fielder in first round.

2002: Blown out in round one by Jets

2005: 14-2. Get upset at home by Steelers in first PO game.

2007: One and done at home in second round. Lose to SD.

2008: One and done in SD.

2010: Lose at home to Sanchez and Jets in WC round.

That is terrible.

Yup.

And the fact that people like to absolve Peyton from any and all criticism for it I'd even more amazing.

 

[Triumph]

that's 14 to compare with Jones

The top 9 are above Jones league.

Herbert is the only QB not to take his club to a Super Bowl, but he is firmly fixed as the Chargers franchise QB.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Jones is going to have a monster second season if we get the offensive line figured out and get him another playmaker.

Our chance at another super bowl in the next couple of years is tied to wolf continuing to have more successful drafts!

 

[Deus Irae]

I'd add Carr to that list.

I put together a group that nobody should have questioned. Anyone close, either by reality or perception, I left off. Even so, one person decided to insist that two of them didn't belong. Patsfans gonna Patsfans.

 

[Deus Irae]

It shouldn't take one playoff game for front offices to realize a very good to elite QB is usually a prerequisite to winning a SB these days.

There are outliers (Flacco, Foles, 2013 version of Wilson, Johnson, Dilfer). But most of those guys either played elite (Foles & Flacco) or were surrounded by stacked positions everywhere else (00 Ravens, 02 Bucs, 13 Seahawks).

The NFL continues to be a passing league. More and more every year. Chances are we won't see an 85 Bears or 00 Ravens type defense carry a QB to a SB again.

I think you're misreading things. It's not that very good to elite QBs are needed to win a SB. It's that elite QBs are need to remain consistently at the top. It's a big difference. Eli and the Giants are probably the best example of it.

 

[Wozzy]

A lot of people keep saying Mac Jones is outside some top 10 list in 2022... how do you know?

Mac was a rookie in 2021, he played great, he can make every throw... but he only played well for a rookie. He has a lot of room for improvement.

He could rocket into outer space this season, or he could crater. But claiming you know... based off what?

Give me a break... you're guessing. That costs nothing, and is worth nothing.

If the team around him is great, he could be "average/good" and they could win it all. He could be amazing and they could lose early if his team sucks.

The Patriots team as it stands today, before free agency settles or weeks before the draft isn't as bad as hyperbolic fans are making it out to be. And it could be much better by the time the regular season kicks off.

 

[Boomer B]

A lot of people keep saying Mac Jones is outside some top 10 list in 2022... how do you know?

Mac was a rookie in 2021, he played great, he can make every throw... but he only played well for a rookie. He has a lot of room for improvement.

He could rocket into outer space this season, or he could crater. But claiming you know... based off what?

Give me a break... you're guessing. That costs nothing, and is worth nothing.

If the team around him is great, he could be "average/good" and they could win it all. He could be amazing and they could lose early if his team sucks.

The Patriots team as it stands today, before free agency settles or weeks before the draft isn't as bad as hyperbolic fans are making it out to be. And it could be much better by the time the regular season kicks off.

It’s a fan forum. Of course we speculate. What are we supposed to do in the off season.

 

[masterbouncer]

I am more concerend about the OL first rather than WR, yes you need better options on the receiving end but it won't help much having 2 superstar WR when your OL is cracking every singel snap and your potential future QB is broken by week 10 of the season, once a good protection comes in play I think there is where you need to have as well elite WR to compete in this days NFL, but its March and a long way to go before WK1 starts

having said that, I have a hard time to believe the Pats will compete this year, for the SB anyway not, but POs will be already quite a challenge specifically not being blown out again in the first PO game like last year, because there are some very stacked teams in the AFC right now and the Patriots so far have not loaded up with more talent on their side

as always hitting on the draft is extremely important and you should get not only prospect but players that can already compete in year 1, this and next years draft including next years FA will determine how it will go further with Mac, however as of now I would not judge Macs play to hard if he would have to play behind this OL, I just hope he won't get a serious injury thats where we are right now with the talent and team building process

those thing can change pretty fast, but not having an seemingly elite QB (which Mac has to prove at one point yet) does not help to acquite FA talent unless you overpay, so I'd rather focus on hitting home runs during the draft, unlike what the pats did the last coupe of years beside last year, which was a great draft for them

 

[Boomer B]

I am more concerend about the OL first rather than WR, yes you need better options on the receiving end but it won't help much having 2 superstar WR when your OL is cracking every singel snap and your potential future QB is broken by week 10 of the season, once a good protection comes in play I think there is where you need to have as well elite WR to compete in this days NFL, but its March and a long way to go before WK1 starts

having said that, I have a hard time to believe the Pats will compete this year, for the SB anyway not, but POs will be already quite a challenge specifically not being blown out again in the first PO game like last year, because there are some very stacked teams in the AFC right now and the Patriots so far have not loaded up with more talent on their side

as always hitting on the draft is extremely important and you should get not only prospect but players that can already compete in year 1, this and next years draft including next years FA will determine how it will go further with Mac, however as of now I would not judge Macs play to hard if he would have to play behind this OL, I just hope he won't get a serious injury thats where we are right now with the talent and team building process

those thing can change pretty fast, but not having an seemingly elite QB (which Mac has to prove at one point yet) does not help to acquite FA talent unless you overpay, so I'd rather focus on hitting home runs during the draft, unlike what the pats did the last coupe of years beside last year, which was a great draft for them

You hit on some good points. The next 2 drafts need to be home runs. We have talent gaps at multiple positions. If we want to compete for a SB in 3-4 years we need to add talent at:

- o-line, at both tackle and guard
- at least 2 competent corners
- free safety
- LB
- d-line
- a true number 1 WR and potentially a number 2

Bill has a lot of work to do to rebuild this roster.

 

[Triumph]

Just make him throw.

Where is the move the chains player that Dante Scar was referring to?

James White? Dante was alluding to an Edelman/Welker type. Even Almendola sufficed just fine when Edelman got hurt.

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

Disagree....

It made me think that a better defense was needed. 13 seconds? Shameful....

Sometimes even that isn’t enough. Pats defense was pretty good in 2018. Held the rams to 3 in the Super Bowl, but still gave up a really late drive to Mahomes to force OT.

 

[1960Pats]

I mean opinions are great but nothing that has actually happened on the field supports this. The disrespect is crazy lol. I think we need less opinion, more facts and logic.

Why? Opinions is what this place is about.
My opinion is that it's unfair to put Lamar Jackson in any discussion of QBs. He's an outstanding runner playing the position of QB.

 

[1960Pats]

Where is the move the chains player that Dante Scar was referring to?

James White? Dante was alluding to an Edelman/Welker type. Even Almendola sufficed just fine when Edelman got hurt.

My vote goes to James White also. He's one of the most underrated players in the NYFL.

 

[1960Pats]

It’s a fan forum. Of course we speculate. What are we supposed to do in the off season.

We could be like Bill and do nothing.

Okay, that was a joke.

 

[Ivan]

Not only do you need the QB, you need the weapons also.

Last SB winners:

Stafford - Kupp, Odell
Brady - Evans, Godwin
Mahomes - Kelce, Hill


Then you look at the contenders. They all have weapons and in most cases multiple weapons.

We can’t send Mac into a gun fight with a water pistol

Agree with this completely, and it’s even more of a concern when you add in the teams that didn’t make it, like the Bills. The AFC is now by far and away the stronger conference, and it’s loaded with teams that are offensively explosive, so to be true contenders the Patriots are not only going to have to build a team that is able to slow those offenses down, but also able to put up 30 plus on a weekly basis. And I’m not so sure that the game script of limiting possessions and winning TOP will work now, as we see teams scoring so quickly as to nullify that model( although it worked very well for many years (e.g..Peyton Manning).

I had hoped that Belichick was going to bring in Allen Robinson, because they desperately need a true #1WR, and then add an explosive young WR high in the draft, because that would have given them a corps of skill players that would enable Jones to keep pace with the high powered offenses across the conference. Unfortunately it didn’t happen in free agency, and unless Belichick is able to address this in the remainder of the off-season it’s going to be really difficult for Jones to put up the points necessary to keep pace with the top teams in the AFC.

While I’m certain that Belichick knows what he is doing, and has an overall plan to get them back to the top I honestly can’t tell what that that is right now. It seems like he’s doing another cap reset off-season, and going to rely upon low cost FA’s and the draft for this seasons team, but it’s hard to see how that makes them a real contender this year, so the only conclusion I can come to is that we are looking at a longer term plan to get back to the top. I can live with that, but it’s definitely a turn of events given how aggressive he was last off-season. We will see how the rest of the off-season goes, but right now it’s hard to see them in contention in 2022.

 

[Wozzy]

It’s a fan forum. Of course we speculate. What are we supposed to do in the off season.

I’m talking about those speaking with certainty Mac is outside the top tier of QB’s and in desperate need of superweapons.

Nobody knows if Mac takes his job seriously and comes to camp bulked up and lean. He might come of out of preseason throwing darts with the same exact weapons.

Agholor and Jonnu’s stats weren’t cut in half from the year prior because they lost their athleticism in a freak car accident… it was because Mac and the passing offense underachieved, largely because he was a clueless rookie. It doesn’t take a wide eyed optimist to assume he will improve, but the optimistic take is he might improve mightily.

 

[Ivan]

Just make him throw.

You can’t have Jones throwing to receivers who can’t get open. When Nelson Agholor is your #1 WR then you don’t have a #1WR. People complain about how vanilla their offense is but they don’t have any WR’s who can get open downfield or outside the hashes. Jones has to throw to guys who would be the 3rd and 4th options on most teams. When Dante Scarnecchia is going public with the need for playmakers you know they have a real problem there.

 

[Ivan]

I’m talking about those speaking with certainty Mac is outside the top tier of QB’s and in desperate need of superweapons.

Nobody knows if Mac takes his job seriously and comes to camp bulked up and lean. He might come of out of preseason throwing darts with the same exact weapons.

Agholor and Jonnu’s stats weren’t cut in half from the year prior because they lost their athleticism in a freak car accident… it was because Mac and the passing offense underachieved, largely because he was a clueless rookie. It doesn’t take a wide eyed optimist to assume he will improve, but the optimistic take is he might improve mightily.

I have a great deal of faith in Jones as a person and a player, but it’s on Belichick to get him the help he needs, and if he doesn’t that’s where I’m going to place the blame. The only caveat to that would be if Jones didn’t do the work to get better and that was obvious. But I believe he will do that work. Belichick is going to have to make philosophical changes to team building, snd place more emphasis on skill players to get them back on top.