Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

[Sciz]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

He never officially agreed to anything. And since they were willing to offer to less than double (his contract was for $2.25M including LTBE incentives not just $1.4M in base salary) that really begs the question why did they approach him about lowering his salary in the spring? That was poking a stick into something needlessly and then at the 5 months later at the 11th hour deciding to go all in. Perhaps Waters is vindictive, he was said to be furious after KC cut him. He came here to rehab what he felt was a HOF image they tarnished. Did that. And then these guys started asking for concessions. Maybe they should have just offered him a raise to $4M back in March. Could have saved themselves another $750K in front money to Gallery and Koppen, so really they'd have only be adding another million to the cap... And with Connolly's deal averaging $3.25M per $4M was never a stretch for Waters.

Folks can blame Waters all they want. This just proves that the brain trust made a mistake and they really need/wanted Waters back and now it isn't gonna happen and we can live with the consequences.

I'm not one to post facepalm images, but you're really asking for it here. I;m convinced you're not actually reading the articles that people are posting, but the media (SMY and Bedard in particular) have reported the exact opposite of everything you've claimed over the past few weeks. You're looking for things that simply aren't there, when really, people have been trying to set you on the right path this whole time. This isn't a money issue. It never has been. Waters wants to be with his family, and he apparently never realized that he should tell the Pats that he wasn't going to show up. They gave him everything he could have possibly asked for short of moving the team to Texas. It wasn't good enough for him. The Patriots are not at fault here, but I'm convinced that you'll never understand that.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

^^^ your a funny dude ... :bricks:

Yeah, I know, I have this thing about accepting one sided reports spun about how the poor team attempting to bend over backwards was just totally screwed over by the conniving player. It's a lesson I've learned the hard way over the last decade as a Patriots fan. I continue to back them when a player is persistently moving the goal posts or asking for more than he's worth. This wasn't one of those cases. They had a chance to settle all this back in March and they chose instead to try and squeeze a little insurance out of a guy who was already worth double what he was due. And now they're upset because he doesn't want their 11th hour offer. Been there done that.

 

[Deus Irae]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

Unless there was poison in the details, or the relationship had already soured by the time of the offer, that's a reasonable offer. But it's the details that matter in an NFL contract.

 

[JJDChE]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

Folks can blame Waters all they want. This just proves that the brain trust made a mistake and they really need/wanted Waters back and now it isn't gonna happen and we can live with the consequences.

Sounds like the Pats offered to pay him a lot more, but it still wasn't enough. Granted, I haven't followed the situation, but at first glance that's what it looks like. Waters either really wanted to stay with his family or he has a sandy vag and wouldn't accept the counteroffer because of it.

BTW, we may WANT him back, but it remains to be seen if we NEED him back.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

I'm not one to post facepalm images, but you're really asking for it here. I;m convinced you're not actually reading the articles that people are posting, but the media (SMY and Bedard in particular) have reported the exact opposite of everything you've claimed over the past few weeks. You're looking for things that simply aren't there, when really, people have been trying to set you on the right path this whole time. This isn't a money issue. It never has been. Waters wants to be with his family, and he apparently never realized that he should tell the Pats that he wasn't going to show up. They gave him everything he could have possibly asked for short of moving the team to Texas. It wasn't good enough for him. The Patriots are not at fault here, but I'm convinced that you'll never understand that.

I'm not the one with the comprehension issues. The sides have been talking for some time. Otherwise they don't make an 11th hour hail mary offer midway through camp. And if they didn't keep in touch to the point they had any idea he might be having second thoughts then shame on them. We began hearing the talk to him, talk to them commentary long before camp opened.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

Sounds like the Pats offered to pay him a lot more, but it still wasn't enough. Granted, I haven't followed the situation, but at first glance that's what it looks like. Waters either really wanted to stay with his family or he has a sandy vag and wouldn't accept the counteroffer because of it.

BTW, we may WANT him back, but it remains to be seen if we NEED him back.

If we didn't need him back they never would have offered him $4M. An offer which probably didn't happen until Gallery decided he couldn't even make it through a camp.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

Unless there was poison in the details, or the relationship had already soured by the time of the offer, that's a reasonable offer. But it's the details that matter in an NFL contract.

Details and timing. Human nature being what it is. And what this FO seems to struggle with.

 

[JJDChE]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

If we didn't need him back they never would have offered him $4M. An offer which probably didn't happen until Gallery decided he couldn't even make it through a camp.

The outcome of the season will determine if he was truly needed.

BTW. $4MM for a pro bowl/all pro/HoF guard isn't all that much. You can argue his age devalues him, but its a one-year contract coming off a pro-bowl season. If he was critical they would've dug deeper.

 

[Deus Irae]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

Details and timing. Human nature being what it is. And what this FO seems to struggle with.

You're preaching to the choir on that one. An organization that is often brilliant in so many areas seems to be absolutely hit-and-miss when it comes to reading the drives/desires of its own personnel.

 

[Patriots Nation NY]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

Jim Mora You Will Never Know - YouTube

Mo .. here is something that is perfect for this thread ... Relax man, have a cream soda ..:rocker:

 

[DaBruinz]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

He never officially agreed to anything. And since they were willing to offer to less than double (his contract was for $2.25M including LTBE incentives not just $1.4M in base salary) that really begs the question why did they approach him about lowering his salary in the spring? That was poking a stick into something needlessly and then at the 5 months later at the 11th hour deciding to go all in. Perhaps Waters is vindictive, he was said to be furious after KC cut him. He came here to rehab what he felt was a HOF image they tarnished. Did that. And then these guys started asking for concessions. Maybe they should have just offered him a raise to $4M back in March. Could have saved themselves another $750K in front money to Gallery and Koppen, so really they'd have only be adding another million to the cap... And with Connolly's deal averaging $3.25M per $4M was never a stretch for Waters.

Folks can blame Waters all they want. This just proves that the brain trust made a mistake and they really need/wanted Waters back and now it isn't gonna happen and we can live with the consequences.

That's funny, Mo, because you clearly must have information that no one else does since that contradicts what SMY is reporting.

And, you're wrong. They were willing to more than double his salary. They said nothing about the incentives. That is an erroneous assumption are your part that they would have eliminated them.

 

[DaBruinz]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

Yeah, I know, I have this thing about accepting one sided reports spun about how the poor team attempting to bend over backwards was just totally screwed over by the conniving player. It's a lesson I've learned the hard way over the last decade as a Patriots fan. I continue to back them when a player is persistently moving the goal posts or asking for more than he's worth. This wasn't one of those cases. They had a chance to settle all this back in March and they chose instead to try and squeeze a little insurance out of a guy who was already worth double what he was due. And now they're upset because he doesn't want their 11th hour offer. Been there done that.

WOW. Listen to the BS you are spewing. This is SMY we are talking about. She's proven that she's not one to kiss the teams arse. The Adalius Thomas reporting was proof of that. So, your claims that it's a "one sided report spun about how the poor team is attempting to bend over backwards and was just totally screwed over by the conniving player" schtick doesn't hold water.

How do you know she's not getting her information from Waters himself? You don't. None of us do. But it's pretty sad that you automatically defend Waters as if his garbage don't stink..

Sorry, Mo. But the only one doing any spinning on this is you. And nothing coming out supports any of your claims.

 

[TheBeers]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

Wow 4 million.. Patriots offered Brian Waters $4 million to return this season - Extra Points - Boston.com

 

[pwes]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

This argument is so ridiculous. Waters clearly does not want to play. I can't believe that this is even being discussed. And then trying to blame the team for it. If he wanted to he would be here plain and simple. $4 million is more than enough.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

If this report is true then its clearly a fact that Waters did not like it here or wanted to stay home.

4 million was a VERY generous offer if this was true.....He obviously does not want to play in New England anymore.

I had thoughts about this earlier before this number appeared,if its true then I totally go 360 degrees the other way.

 

[DaBruinz]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

I'm not the one with the comprehension issues. The sides have been talking for some time. Otherwise they don't make an 11th hour hail mary offer midway through camp. And if they didn't keep in touch to the point they had any idea he might be having second thoughts then shame on them. We began hearing the talk to him, talk to them commentary long before camp opened.

How do you know it was a "11th hour hail mary offer"? How do you know it was midway through camp and not at the start? Did you ever stop to think that the Pats, realizing their cap situation, went to him to say, "Brian, we recognize what you did for us and we want to up your salary to the equivalent of $4 million instead of the 1.4mil it was supposed to be. " Hell, they may have even decided to go back to the original pay structure and forego the whole game by game thing. You sure don't know and it's not come out one way or the other.

No. You automatically assume that the Pats are trying to screw him over despite information to the contrary.

 

[pwes]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

If this report is true then its clearly a fact that Waters did not like it here or wanted to stay home.

4 million was a VERY generous offer if this was true.....He obviously does not want to play in New England anymore.

I had thoughts about this earlier before this number appeared,if its true then I totally go 360 degrees the other way.

i think you mean 180 otherwise your opinion doesnt change at all

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

The timetable of when this 4 million dollar offer is key to the truth.....If it was as reported in TC then Waters was never coming here....if its found that they offered him it yesterday then maybe Mo has a point.

But from reports it looks like it was a while ago.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

i think you mean 180 otherwise your opinion doesnt change at all

LOL....Yeah,its early in the day :bricks:

 

[randomk1]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

I'm kind of annoyed that this guy doesn't have that desire for the ring in him. A few months away from his family is going to be that big of an issue?

Pretty sure Troy,Tedy,Rodney would suit up tomorrow if they could play.


**** it...why not pay the 4 mill to a guy that actually wants play? Carter would've looked awesome on that front line even if he might not be 100% atm.