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DRAFT BGC 2021 Pre-Draft/Patriot-Type Prospect(s) thread

2021 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: vs Dolphins
Pick Results: MIA: 0% at NE: 0%

Sun
Sep 12th

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patfanken

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I’ll admit to being oblivious to where Slater’s stock is at. It was either him or Farely at that spot and I didn’t feel comfortable with it. Is Slater that much better than the likes of Darrisaw or Vera-Tucker? He would be quite the long term asset for sure, since he could replace either Wynn or Brown depending how BB wants to proceed beyond this season. I also underestimated the depth at offensive tackle. Had a chance at drafting Little at 49 but went corner instead (which I should’ve known better). Fun exercise either way!
I can't believe all the crap I'm hearing about overdraftiing an OT with out top pick. It's bad enough that we are talking about moving up in the draft and using valuable assets for a QB who might not b ready for TWO seasons. Now people want to make our top pick a guy who is ALSO likely to sit for a year and be a swing tackle?????? Are you guys NUTS

Do give me that crap about Wynn being injury prone or Brown on a one year deal. That's bullcrap. We have a VERY RARE shot at getting a top 2 LB, DLman Edge rusher, WR, or DB at 15 That kind of **** happens about once every 2 decades for us,. I sure as hell hope we don't screw it up by picking an OT who would be a luxury or a QB who we will have to wait 2 years to even see if he was worth the pick.

BTW- Moving to 7 from 15 is going to take a lot more than the 15 and a one next year.
 

Lansdowne

In the Starting Line-Up
I can't believe all the crap I'm hearing about overdraftiing an OT with out top pick. It's bad enough that we are talking about moving up in the draft and using valuable assets for a QB who might not b ready for TWO seasons. Now people want to make our top pick a guy who is ALSO likely to sit for a year and be a swing tackle?????? Are you guys NUTS

Do give me that crap about Wynn being injury prone or Brown on a one year deal. That's bullcrap. We have a VERY RARE shot at getting a top 2 LB, DLman Edge rusher, WR, or DB at 15 That kind of **** happens about once every 2 decades for us,. I sure as hell hope we don't screw it up by picking an OT who would be a luxury or a QB who we will have to wait 2 years to even see if he was worth the pick.

BTW- Moving to 7 from 15 is going to take a lot more than the 15 and a one next year.
Oh relax. You might not care about the stability of the OT position but it doesn’t mean the team doesn’t. Having a capable swing tackle off the bench is a luxury, sure...until you’re forced to start bums like Marshall Newhouse and Jermaine Eluemunor at those tackle spots. That’s when the fun really starts.

Calling it bullcrap isn’t going to make it untrue. The facts are our starting left tackle has missed all of 2018, two months in 2019, and a month and a half of 2020. If he keeps up that pace he’ll only a miss a month this time and the offensive line would have to shift three guys just to fill his spot for those four games. No biggy. Our starting right tackle underperformed with his most recent team and is no guarantee to return to being the guy we had three seasons ago. That is the hope.

Here is the fact: Neither starter is under contract after this season, and BB is apparently not in any rush to extend them. What if he doesn’t? What if they both walk? Who starts? Herron? Cajuste? Overspend on a proven tackle in free agency? Because those are your only options there if you don’t draft someone. Maybe BB opts to keep Wynn, maybe he doesn’t. Either way the position needs addressing. It’s no different than CB, which neither starter is under contract for beyond this season. We have no starting QB beyond this season. Hightower is a free agent next year. McCourty may retire.

- Horn would be my top choice at 15, because I don’t see them keeping both Gilmore and Jackson next year.

- Surtain would be my next guy, who I don’t like as much as Horn but would still be happy with as a CB1.

- Slater would be drafted (in best case scenario) as a “luxury” swing tackle for his rookie season, the same way Nate Solder was when he was drafted with the 17th overall pick in 2011, when Light and Vollmer were the established starters and signed through the 2012 season. Our luxury swing tackle Solder ended up playing a lot that year because Vollmer kept getting hurt. Light retired that offseason and Solder became the new starting left tackle.

Think about that. Belichick wasn’t afraid to draft a tackle in the middle of the first round, and that was when he had both starting tackles signed for the next two seasons. The Pats have NEITHER starter signed next season. That can change by May 3rd, so we’ll see. But it’s not some insane idea to draft a franchise tackle in the first round, because they’ve done it before. Solder won two Super Bowls with us so I’d say it was worth it. Slater could be too, and given Wynn’s history he’d probably be pressed into starting duty at some point this season anyway.

I’m big on Parsons, he’s the one linebacker I’d want them to get at 15. The character issues are concerning (him inciting a high school riot by yelling gun in the cafeteria, his documentated hazing incident at Penn State). If he’s grown past that he can be an asset. If he hasn’t he can be Rolando McClain Part 2. And you wouldn’t be able to claim the warning signs weren’t there. Before I’d heard of that he was my easy choice for defensive player at 15. I’d almost rather take the chance that he shapes up in Foxboro and becomes the centerpiece of the defense for years to come. I’d be happy with it. 15 is a great spot and it’ll be hard to go wrong.

I don’t know who suggested an extra first would be enough to move up from 15 to 7 because it wasn’t me who said that, but I agree with you on that much. It’s a large jump and would cost more than that.

The draft is an imperfect science and neither you nor I know any better than the guy in charge of making the decisions for the Patriots. Let’s just hope everything works out regardless of what direction BB decides to go. :thumbsup:
 
Last edited:

woolster22

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I can't believe all the crap I'm hearing about overdraftiing an OT with out top pick. It's bad enough that we are talking about moving up in the draft and using valuable assets for a QB who might not b ready for TWO seasons. Now people want to make our top pick a guy who is ALSO likely to sit for a year and be a swing tackle?????? Are you guys NUTS

Do give me that crap about Wynn being injury prone or Brown on a one year deal. That's bullcrap. We have a VERY RARE shot at getting a top 2 LB, DLman Edge rusher, WR, or DB at 15 That kind of **** happens about once every 2 decades for us,. I sure as hell hope we don't screw it up by picking an OT who would be a luxury or a QB who we will have to wait 2 years to even see if he was worth the pick.

BTW- Moving to 7 from 15 is going to take a lot more than the 15 and a one next year.
Presuming any of the "top 5" QBs they like are gone (if there is someone they like within range of a small move up, you obviously need to have faith in your scouts and secure the potential franchise qb):

Wasn't there a streak of 1st rd dlineman and winning the super bowl in said year?

There's only so many nfl lineman sized humans on the planet. Fewer still athletic ones. If the team has the chance to take an impact lineman they've identified on either side of the ball in the first, great.

Do you think Mahomes wishes he had another talented lineman or three last year?

OL may be a "luxury pick," but it's a luxury that returns dividends across the skill positions.
 

Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
This team just needs top end talent, as long as they’re getting that, I have no problem with whatever position is picked (outside of special teams only, of course). Any position can be justified. In this case, not only do you get a no-fly zone for this year, but you also have a long-term solution at CB, with both Gilmore and Jackson being free agents next year.
This is how I see it as well. There are always the prospects we want the most, usually based upon the biggest need, but the bottom line with a first round pick is getting a player who will become great for years. Unless they trade up there are about 10 players who will almost certainly be gone by the time they pick:

T. Lawrence QB Clemson

Z.Wilson QB BYU

J.Fields QB Ohio St.

T. Lance QB N. Dakota St.

M. Jones QB Alabama

K.Pitts TE Florida

J. Chase WR LSU

J.Waddle WR Alabama

P.. Sewell OT Oregon

M. Parsons LB PSU

*D.Smith WR Alabama

*I think Smith is dropping and might be available at # 15.

** It’s also likely that another OT and a CB will be gone, Slater is probably the OT, but it’s hard to say which CB will go off the board first. Horn, Farley, or Surtain could be there, and there will be quality OL available with. Vera-Tucker and Darrisaw still on the board, but if they don’t trade down then I would go with Kwity Paye, the edge defender out of Michigan. The top pass rusher in the draft is never available at this point, and is certainly never available when the Patriots pick, so I would add him to the Patriots front 7 and try to make life as miserable as possible for the young QB’s the Patriots will be facing in the AFCE. With Hightower and Van Noy coming back, the addition of Judon, and continued development of Wynovich and Uche the Patriots could have the best overall pass rush in football, and Paye would be a great addition to that group. It may seem redundant but the ability to run fresh pass rushers into the defense all day will make life hell for opposing OL and QB’s.
 

betterthanthealternative

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I can't believe all the crap I'm hearing about overdraftiing an OT with out top pick. It's bad enough that we are talking about moving up in the draft and using valuable assets for a QB who might not b ready for TWO seasons. Now people want to make our top pick a guy who is ALSO likely to sit for a year and be a swing tackle?????? Are you guys NUTS

Do give me that crap about Wynn being injury prone or Brown on a one year deal. That's bullcrap. We have a VERY RARE shot at getting a top 2 LB, DLman Edge rusher, WR, or DB at 15 That kind of **** happens about once every 2 decades for us,. I sure as hell hope we don't screw it up by picking an OT who would be a luxury or a QB who we will have to wait 2 years to even see if he was worth the pick.

BTW- Moving to 7 from 15 is going to take a lot more than the 15 and a one next year.

If the Pats think that one of the OT's has all-pro potential and the LB's, DL, Edge, WR, and DB that are left don't, I'm OK with it. At that point, it is about next year's roster more than this year's.
 

Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
If the Pats think that one of the OT's has all-pro potential and the LB's, DL, Edge, WR, and DB that are left don't, I'm OK with it. At that point, it is about next year's roster more than this year's.
I agree with this philosophy completely. Ultimately I think it’s about getting a player who will be great for years to come. Those who disagree should go look at the 23 players selected before Ed Reed by the teams that “ didn’t need a safety.” There are a few great ones, like Peppers and Freeney, but there are many who turned out to be terrible pro’s but “ filled a need.” Filling a need with a bad player is a waste of a pick, take the ones that you believe are going to be great and fill the need with a veteran who has proven they can play in the NFL.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
I can't believe all the crap I'm hearing about overdraftiing an OT with out top pick. It's bad enough that we are talking about moving up in the draft and using valuable assets for a QB who might not b ready for TWO seasons. Now people want to make our top pick a guy who is ALSO likely to sit for a year and be a swing tackle?????? Are you guys NUTS

Do give me that crap about Wynn being injury prone or Brown on a one year deal. That's bullcrap. We have a VERY RARE shot at getting a top 2 LB, DLman Edge rusher, WR, or DB at 15 That kind of **** happens about once every 2 decades for us,. I sure as hell hope we don't screw it up by picking an OT who would be a luxury or a QB who we will have to wait 2 years to even see if he was worth the pick.

BTW- Moving to 7 from 15 is going to take a lot more than the 15 and a one next year.

Micah Parsons, Kwity Paye, Zaven Collins - in that order - are my top targets at #15...Best-case plan B for me is, if a non-Justin Fields QB is unattainable, trading Down either with LV & Miami for the return of our 2022 5th- & 6th-rounders respectively or with the WTFs for #s 19 & 74/82...
One of those 3 should still be available at #19...

CB JC Horn (but not Surtain or especially Farley) would also be worthy of #15...This ain't no Lil' Terry Wheatley, or Glas-IR, or the Error Repeater, or Glitch Richards, or Cyrus the Virus, or the Little Duke (but not of Dorchester) Dawson...

If one of the Alabama WRs drops to #15 then they would also have to be strongly considered...

And though it might be a luxury pick for this season, adding any of Sewell, Slater or AVT would solidify our Left side either at LT or LG for potentially
the next decade... But yeah OL is lower on my 1st-round priority list than DE/LB...
 

Patsgofor4

In the Starting Line-Up
Micah Parsons, Kwity Paye, Zaven Collins - in that order - are my top targets at #15...Best-case plan B for me is, if a non-Justin Fields QB is unattainable, trading Down either with LV & Miami for the return of our 2022 5th- & 6th-rounders respectively or with the WTFs for #s 19 & 74/82...
One of those 3 should still be available at #19...

CB JC Horn (but not Surtain or especially Farley) would also be worthy of #15...This ain't no Lil' Terry Wheatley, or Glas-IR, or the Error Repeater, or Glitch Richards, or Cyrus the Virus, or the Little Duke (but not of Dorchester) Dawson...

If one of the Alabama WRs drops to #15 then they would also have to be strongly considered...

And though it might be a luxury pick for this season, adding any of Sewell, Slater or AVT would solidify our Left side either at LT or LG for potentially
the next decade... But yeah OL is lower on my 1st-round priority list than DE/LB...

Whoa, I actually agree with pretty much everything here (prefer Collins to Paye, who I think has a little more boom or bust in him than the other two). Great post.

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50-yard-line

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Micah Parsons, Kwity Paye, Zaven Collins - in that order - are my top targets at #15...Best-case plan B for me is, if a non-Justin Fields QB is unattainable, trading Down either with LV & Miami for the return of our 2022 5th- & 6th-rounders respectively or with the WTFs for #s 19 & 74/82...
One of those 3 should still be available at #19...

CB JC Horn (but not Surtain or especially Farley) would also be worthy of #15...This ain't no Lil' Terry Wheatley, or Glas-IR, or the Error Repeater, or Glitch Richards, or Cyrus the Virus, or the Little Duke (but not of Dorchester) Dawson...

If one of the Alabama WRs drops to #15 then they would also have to be strongly considered...

And though it might be a luxury pick for this season, adding any of Sewell, Slater or AVT would solidify our Left side either at LT or LG for potentially
the next decade... But yeah OL is lower on my 1st-round priority list than DE/LB...
Agree on Farley, but the funny thing is that he might become the best of the bunch. Can't take a health risk early at this point.
 

DropKickFlutie

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Been seeing the “Slim Reaper” dropinng to us quite a bit more in mocks. I’d prefer Waddle, but got to admit, Smith intrigues the h3ll out if me.

Devonta is the real deal after Chase. I too would have to think hard if Devonta is at #15 there with Parsons, Collins, Paye, Horn all available. Waddle is way too risky. Saying a guy like Devonta weighs too light is the dumbest argument. Marvin Harrison was also 175 pounds. Devonta was durable and played against the best corners in the SEC. Imagine teams being dumb and passing on Jerry Rice because his 40 wasn't good, or Brady because he looked out of shape for a pocket QB. This franchise has had 13 years of elite 5'7 midget slot receivers catching hundreds of balls in the middle of the field, and they're complaining now a WR is too light because he doesn't fit our broken crappy WR height/combine metric draft obsession.
 

patfanken

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Devonta is the real deal after Chase. I too would have to think hard if Devonta is at #15 there with Parsons, Collins, Paye, Horn all available. Waddle is way too risky. Saying a guy like Devonta weighs too light is the dumbest argument. Marvin Harrison was also 175 pounds. Devonta was durable and played against the best corners in the SEC. Imagine teams being dumb and passing on Jerry Rice because his 40 wasn't good, or Brady because he looked out of shape for a pocket QB. This franchise has had 13 years of elite 5'7 midget slot receivers catching hundreds of balls in the middle of the field, and they're complaining now a WR is too light because he doesn't fit our broken crappy WR height/combine metric draft obsession.
.Here is the thing if it came to any WR vs Parsons. You go with Parsons EVERY time. You go with the player who can make and impact on EVERY defensive play. the problem with every WR no matter how great is that 99% can be defended and minimized, The pats have proven over the years that is a COMBINATION of decent receivers make an offense go. THe
 

long distance

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
.Here is the thing if it came to any WR vs Parsons. You go with Parsons EVERY time. You go with the player who can make and impact on EVERY defensive play. the problem with every WR no matter how great is that 99% can be defended and minimized, The pats have proven over the years that is a COMBINATION of decent receivers make an offense go. THe

Maybe one should dive a bit deeper scouting Parsons.. on and off the field..
 

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