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DRAFT BGC 2021 Pre-Draft/Patriot-Type Prospect(s) thread

2021 Patriots Season:
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Next Up: vs Dolphins
Pick Results: MIA: 0% at NE: 0%

Sun
Sep 12th

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patsfanfromoversea

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Oh relax. You might not care about the stability of the OT position but it doesn’t mean the team doesn’t. Having a capable swing tackle off the bench is a luxury, sure...until you’re forced to start bums like Marshall Newhouse and Jermaine Eluemunor at those tackle spots. That’s when the fun really starts.

Calling it bullcrap isn’t going to make it untrue. The facts are our starting left tackle has missed all of 2018, two months in 2019, and a month and a half of 2020. If he keeps up that pace he’ll only a miss a month this time and the offensive line would have to shift three guys just to fill his spot for those four games. No biggy. Our starting right tackle underperformed with his most recent team and is no guarantee to return to being the guy we had three seasons ago. That is the hope.

Here is the fact: Neither starter is under contract after this season, and BB is apparently not in any rush to extend them. What if he doesn’t? What if they both walk? Who starts? Herron? Cajuste? Overspend on a proven tackle in free agency? Because those are your only options there if you don’t draft someone. Maybe BB opts to keep Wynn, maybe he doesn’t. Either way the position needs addressing. It’s no different than CB, which neither starter is under contract for beyond this season. We have no starting QB beyond this season. Hightower is a free agent next year. McCourty may retire.

- Horn would be my top choice at 15, because I don’t see them keeping both Gilmore and Jackson next year.

- Surtain would be my next guy, who I don’t like as much as Horn but would still be happy with as a CB1.
I have the fear both Horn and Surtain could be gone...Dallas Giants Eagles Chargers could all need CB's and Horn and Surtain are probably top 5 defense players of the draft class...
- Slater would be drafted (in best case scenario) as a “luxury” swing tackle for his rookie season, the same way Nate Solder was when he was drafted with the 17th overall pick in 2011, when Light and Vollmer were the established starters and signed through the 2012 season. Our luxury swing tackle Solder ended up playing a lot that year because Vollmer kept getting hurt. Light retired that offseason and Solder became the new starting left tackle.
I like Slater/AVT/Darrisaw in the first but AVT and Darrisaw maybe with a small trade down...they would provide good value..
Think about that. Belichick wasn’t afraid to draft a tackle in the middle of the first round, and that was when he had both starting tackles signed for the next two seasons. The Pats have NEITHER starter signed next season. That can change by May 3rd, so we’ll see. But it’s not some insane idea to draft a franchise tackle in the first round, because they’ve done it before. Solder won two Super Bowls with us so I’d say it was worth it. Slater could be too, and given Wynn’s history he’d probably be pressed into starting duty at some point this season anyway.

I’m big on Parsons, he’s the one linebacker I’d want them to get at 15. The character issues are concerning (him inciting a high school riot by yelling gun in the cafeteria, his documentated hazing incident at Penn State). If he’s grown past that he can be an asset. If he hasn’t he can be Rolando McClain Part 2. And you wouldn’t be able to claim the warning signs weren’t there. Before I’d heard of that he was my easy choice for defensive player at 15. I’d almost rather take the chance that he shapes up in Foxboro and becomes the centerpiece of the defense for years to come. I’d be happy with it. 15 is a great spot and it’ll be hard to go wrong.
I would take Collins in a heartbeat either, not at 15 but around 20 for sure...
I don’t know who suggested an extra first would be enough to move up from 15 to 7 because it wasn’t me who said that, but I agree with you on that much. It’s a large jump and would cost more than that.

The draft is an imperfect science and neither you nor I know any better than the guy in charge of making the decisions for the Patriots. Let’s just hope everything works out regardless of what direction BB decides to go. :thumbsup:
 

DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
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just curious. I' ve heard abut the hint of off field issues with Parsons. Do you know what the specifics are ?
Supposedly was in a fight at 17-18 with another student who ended up suing the coach..

 

Mark Morse

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Mark are you telling us you know what the Pat;s draft board is going to look like?
I would love to know what's on the Patriots draft board! I was referring to Bacon Grundle Candy's Patriots Type Players Draft Board. He lists them by position and which round they are rated to be selected.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

NFL Expert / Tone Setter
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just curious. I' ve heard abut the hint of off field issues with Parsons. Do you know what the specifics are ?
Ended up leaving and transferring high schools after yelling "gun" during lunch.

The hazing bs which he was involved in.

I mentioned this last week a few pages back that he's got into with more than one coach but at the same time had no problems with others. Every locker room has dynamics like this but from what I heard he had no problems walking around like a big shot. Can't see that happening in some places without someone a lot bigger putting him in a cold tub, maybe that's what he needs?

I'm back & forth about him on my board. Is Bill going to take a chance at 15, round one?
 

BaconGrundleCandy

NFL Expert / Tone Setter
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This is a coincidence.
5. Corner market: Top cornerbacks Stephon Gilmore and J.C. Jackson (restricted free-agent tender) have contracts that expire after the 2022 season, so the position is a "sneaky" need for the Patriots. It's a good year to try to fill it in the 2021 NFL draft (April 29-May 1 in Cleveland, on ESPN and ESPN the App), with South Carolina's Jaycee Horn (son of former NFL receiver Joe Horn) one notable first-round consideration. "This is a year where you can find corners throughout the entire draft. I wouldn't be shocked, right now, if 40 corners were drafted," ESPN draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr., said.

What I'm writing in the new thread and been discussed on here.
CB - We've heard Gilmore's name come up in trade talks for a year now. He's up soon and we have a decision on JC as well. This could be future pick considering we probably won't have as much money to spend next year and someone could be gone.

Fortunately for us there are two big boys - prototype day one starters that scream PTP. These guys aren't reaches, have legit first round value. So value and need meet perfectly.
 
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long distance

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
If all of Parsons, Paye & Zaven Collins were available at our pick, and since Parsons seems to be off your 1st-round board, then would you take Paye or Collins?

hypotetical questions are killing me :)

id like to answer but maybe it is still too early and other players i prefer might be on the board as well..

I think Collins could really thrive in NE. Paye is as PTP as it gets and can see him as blue chip in NE..

If there was no QB id firmly believe in (which unfortunately from my place i can't) on the board id try to trade down a bit unless Horn, Slater, Waddle f.e. would fall..
 
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captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
This is a coincidence.
5. Corner market: Top cornerbacks Stephon Gilmore and J.C. Jackson (restricted free-agent tender) have contracts that expire after the 2022 season, so the position is a "sneaky" need for the Patriots. It's a good year to try to fill it in the 2021 NFL draft (April 29-May 1 in Cleveland, on ESPN and ESPN the App), with South Carolina's Jaycee Horn (son of former NFL receiver Joe Horn) one notable first-round consideration. "This is a year where you can find corners throughout the entire draft. I wouldn't be shocked, right now, if 40 corners were drafted," ESPN draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr., said.

What I'm writing in the new thread and been discussed on here.
CB - We've heard Gilmore's name come up in trade talks for a year now. He's up soon and we have a decision on JC as well. This could be future pick considering we probably won't have as much money to spend next year and someone could be gone.

Fortunately for us there are two big boys - prototype day one starters that scream PTP. These guys aren't reaches, have legit first round value. So value and need meet perfectly.

Horn is indeed a worthy top-20 pick...However, I would rather extend both Gilmore & JCJack, re-sign JMac or a reasonable facsimile thereof, draft a CB for the pipeline at 120/122, and use our first pick, if it's not for a non-Fields QB, on front-7 help, for which there is a more immediate need...
 

holyredeemer

In the Starting Line-Up
This is a coincidence.
5. Corner market: Top cornerbacks Stephon Gilmore and J.C. Jackson (restricted free-agent tender) have contracts that expire after the 2022 season, so the position is a "sneaky" need for the Patriots. It's a good year to try to fill it in the 2021 NFL draft (April 29-May 1 in Cleveland, on ESPN and ESPN the App), with South Carolina's Jaycee Horn (son of former NFL receiver Joe Horn) one notable first-round consideration. "This is a year where you can find corners throughout the entire draft. I wouldn't be shocked, right now, if 40 corners were drafted," ESPN draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr., said.

What I'm writing in the new thread and been discussed on here.
CB - We've heard Gilmore's name come up in trade talks for a year now. He's up soon and we have a decision on JC as well. This could be future pick considering we probably won't have as much money to spend next year and someone could be gone.

Fortunately for us there are two big boys - prototype day one starters that scream PTP. These guys aren't reaches, have legit first round value. So value and need meet perfectly.
CB, S & T have a possibility to be HUGE needs. Gonna be quite a few disappointed folks during this draft.
 

patfanken

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Supposedly was in a fight at 17-18 with another student who ended up suing the coach..

So DB, his entire "off field issues" amounts to a fight that he clearly isn't proud of when he was 18. It sounds like a sophomoric prank that escalated into an actual fight. Why would the cops be necessary in the first place. Parsons didn't pull the knife. So no hanging with bad elements. No abuse of women, No academic issues, and no football related issues regarding a work ethic or coachability. Sounds like a tempest in a teacup

Based on what you pointed out, I'd have no problem picking him
 

betterthanthealternative

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So DB, his entire "off field issues" amounts to a fight that he clearly isn't proud of when he was 18. It sounds like a sophomoric prank that escalated into an actual fight. Why would the cops be necessary in the first place. Parsons didn't pull the knife. So no hanging with bad elements. No abuse of women, No academic issues, and no football related issues regarding a work ethic or coachability. Sounds like a tempest in a teacup

Based on what you pointed out, I'd have no problem picking him

It sounds like the kind of maturation that a good coaching crew and locker room would accelerate. He'll certainly be on notice. He'd have a sit down with the owner if he's taken at 15, for sure.

But put him in Cincinnati, for example, at it might go south.

Oh, I know what this young man needs: Easterby! :)
 

reamer

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
So DB, his entire "off field issues" amounts to a fight that he clearly isn't proud of when he was 18. It sounds like a sophomoric prank that escalated into an actual fight. Why would the cops be necessary in the first place. Parsons didn't pull the knife. So no hanging with bad elements. No abuse of women, No academic issues, and no football related issues regarding a work ethic or coachability. Sounds like a tempest in a teacup

Based on what you pointed out, I'd have no problem picking him

There are much more serious allegations of sexual harassment that were extremely disturbing to read about, if true. A fight I don't care about. I don't feel like repeating the contents if the harassment case. Google exists if you want to know more. I don't want someone like that around the team, all things being equal. If we draft him, then obviously I'll hope he plays well because of the team benefit, but I won't be a fan of the person.
 

KontradictioN

35. Activist #BLM ✊ #ACAB #FreePalpatine They/Them
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I would also take this draft any day of the week...I would Not make that trade for Justin Fields of course...But for Lance it's worth it here because there are some people (perhaps Bill is among them) who believe that he's the 3rd-best QB prospect in the draft; so if SF actually goes ahead and chooses Mac Jones at #3 and Lance becomes available at #7, then trading up for him now would kinda be the same as trading all the way up from #15 to #3 for him, and if the cost is simply a 2022 #1, then that's still less than the price Lynch & Shanny paid for the same general opportunity, if one cares to rationalize it that way...

Absolutely love the next 3 picks...

Shi Smith & Cornell Powell are ok where they were taken...Maybe a Simi Fehoko/Dax Milne combo at 122/188 would be something to consider...

Love the Tyler Shelvin pick here, where it's worth the chance that he's a better player than tester...

I ass-ume that you plan on converting the Divine Devil to Full-Time Weak-Side LB, as I would do...If so, then great pick! Dude's a Legit 6'3 - 226 now, with the frame for 235 or more; and also has the quicks to match, so he should have the ability to stick with both TEs and RBs, and hang closer to the LOS too...

Big fan of Ben Mason...though I wonder if I might take the chance that he'll be available at 242 if there's a DE i like at 197...or even at 188 and then wait for Powell (or another WR) at 197...
I’d be ecstatic with Shi Smith there. That’s a kid who can instantly come in and become an impact player in the slot. Or he could move to the Z with Meyers in the slot, depending on the defensive look and personnel grouping.
 

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