Belichick's 'prove it' time table.

[holyredeemer]

I hope so. There's cap room and a lot of opportunity to upgrade. With competent QB play this year, maybe we close out a few of those games where we had the ball in opposing territory, a first down, with a chance to win it in the fourth quarter. Maybe we even get to 10-6.

JG seems a little injury prone, but I'm not as down on him as some others. I think he could succeed here, provided he stays healthy.

That's why I think they should really go for JG if he's available and draft his successor if they think he's on the board. With his injury history, the rookie would get a lot of opportunities without all of the pressure.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Man. Some of that coaching Brady got in New England clearly really took.

 

[jmt57]

TB12' longevity is really what killed BB the GM

A point that many are missing.

Building a long term plan based on your QB to perform at a very high level at age 43 and 44 is not sound reasoning.

What Brady is doing now is unprecedented in sports history. To have expected this type of performance at his age as the basis of your multi-year forecast would not have been logical or rational. TB12 defied those odds in dramatic fashion; allegedly expecting this superior level of play to continue now is based solely on the benefit of hindsight.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

TB12' longevity is really what killed BB the GM

Old me killed the new me...

 

[yukon cornelius]

A point that many are missing.

Building a long term plan based on your QB to perform at a very high level at age 43 and 44 is not sound reasoning.

What Brady is doing now is unprecedented in sports history. To have expected this type of performance at his age as the basis of your multi-year forecast would not have been logical or rational. TB12 defied those odds in dramatic fashion; allegedly expecting this superior level of play to continue now is based solely on the benefit of hindsight.

it really killed any long term planning and resulted in a constant 'win now' gamble that a) didn't plan out, as it put a ton of instant gratification need on the draft and b) wasn't sustainable with the cap

 

[Ring 6]

Belichick is under .500 without Brady and it's not likely that changes next season.Brady now has 3 playoff wins without Bill, all on the road. Bill has 1 playoff win without Brady and none on the road.

I'd like to think Bill knows all of that and feels he does have something to prove. Hope he rebuilds this team with that in mind.

Belichick has nothing to prove.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

A lot of people on here didn't think Brady had anything left last year. What I mean by "graveyard" is that the QB doesn't have much to succeed. Cam is just terrible.

I would hope we aren’t going into 21 with the same personnel. Since we are among the teams with the most cap space and have glaring holes at wr/te.

 

[ScottishPatriots]

Belichick can go 3-13 for 3 years and get fired and in 10-15-20 years it won't even be mentioned, when was the last time you heard someone talk about Chuck Nolls record without Terry Bradshaw.

All of this is in the moment media fodder, he doesn't have anything to prove except maybe to his own ego.

 

[Ring 6]

A lot of people on here didn't think Brady had anything left last year. What I mean by "graveyard" is that the QB doesn't have much to succeed. Cam is just terrible.

Brady was injured the second half of last year. Barely even practiced. Had trouble throwing.

 

[BobDigital]

So if 2000 was the "reset" and Bill was reason for their turnaround in 2001, he should have no problem getting them to at least the divisional round next year. He's got plenty of cap space and there are veteran QB's available for trade. If Bill doesn't get them to at least a Wildcard next year, that's a very bad look for him.

I agree, but he doesn't need to hit every step till year 5 IMO. For instance, if we miss the playoffs again, but he makes the division round in year 3 that would be fine. I'm just using these steps as a logical progression of where you want to be an by what time ideally. Most coaches don't even get 5 years these days, and that is more than fair.

It's also possible BB never finds another HOF QB. I wouldn't blame him for that, they are hard to find and don't become available every year. But you don't need a HOF QB to make the final 4. Just a good one with the right pieces and a good D. That should be possible for Bill to do.

 

[BobDigital]

These are the players Bill hand picked and wanted to roll with. So basically you're saying Bill didn't do a good job as GM?

It is an interesting point. I understand coaches wanting to be the GM. Some give Bill props for being one and some hold it against him. I think it is fair to hold it against him personally, as he insisted on it. It might be better for Bill to step back from the GM roll and narrow his focus. If he can't do that and it hurts him to his detriment then that's on him.

They are both the GOATS in my opinion but does anyone think another coach could have won 7 games with our team this year with the talent we had. I would be shocked if any other coach wins 2 games.
Tom, no need to elaborate how important he is/was.

They absolutely overachieved this year with the talent they had. But I'm not sure how much of that is BB and how much was just plain old luck. After all, teams over achieve and under achieve every year and there is no particular reason why in many cases. We know some of the teams they did better then they should've had bad coaches and some teams that did worse had pretty decent coaches. I'm not saying BB doesn't deserve some minor credit for this success, but I wonder how much of that record this time was him and how much was luck. We'll never know I suppose.

 

[BobDigital]

Let's hypothetically assume that the Patriots/Belichick do not meet those goals.

In that case what other coaches are above Belichick as the best ever, and why?

Bill Walsh would have a great case. Joe Gibbs won with 3 different QBs. That is highly impressive and not talked about enough. I'd need to think about it.

 

[Tony2046]

Bill is always going to be the GOAT HC. He gets that designation through Super Bowl W’s, his meticulous preparation, the culture he instills within the organization, and how he maximizes the talent he has. He won’t lose that based on what Brady has done.

Bill the GM is a mixed bag. 2021 will be his ultimate prove-it year. He’s shed Caserio in the offseason, has a ton of cap room, and has the highest pick in each round that he’s had since 2008 (Mayo) and 2009. If this team isn’t back in the playoffs next season, it will be a massive failure on his record.

I'd give him until 2022 to make the playoffs. Need time to build team chemistry.

 

[jmt57]

it really killed any long term planning and resulted in a constant 'win now' gamble that a) didn't plan out, as it put a ton of instant gratification need on the draft and b) wasn't sustainable with the cap

Ironic that so many were at one time constantly complaining that 'the window is closing'.

 

[Tony2046]

Bill Walsh would have a great case. Joe Gibbs won with 3 different QBs. That is highly impressive and not talked about enough. I'd need to think about it.

I think the salary cap would have to be a factor when considering those names.

 

[jmt57]

Bill Walsh would have a great case. Joe Gibbs won with 3 different QBs. That is highly impressive and not talked about enough. I'd need to think about it.

Bill Walsh is a great comparison. His innovative ideas do not translate to metrics we now depend on. Same goes for Paul Brown. Sid Gillman is overlooked, as is to a lesser extent Dan Coryell.

Gibbs winning with three different quarterbacks is also a very interesting case. If I recall correctly their defenses were very strong each time, putting the offense in advantageous field positions. A great offensive line (The Hogs) blocking for John Riggins, George Rogers and Earnest Byner helped in a day when officiating/passing rules were far different than today. Their OL was so good a scrub (Timmy Smith) pulled a Jonas Gray and ran for 200 yards in the SB. Winning was far less reliant on the quarterback at that time, in comparison to today.


Walsh has far fewer wins (311 to 102), half the championships, and a lower winning percentage (.673 vs .609).

Gibbs worked in an era when defense and a running game was a winning formula.
Belichick did the same, but then unlike Gibbs was able to adapt to an era where a passing offense was paramount.

 

[SVN]

Belichick can go 3-13 for 3 years and get fired and in 10-15-20 years it won't even be mentioned, when was the last time you heard someone talk about Chuck Nolls record without Terry Bradshaw.

All of this is in the moment media fodder, he doesn't have anything to prove except maybe to his own ego.

The irony is that the same people who called Brady a system QB are now heaping praises on him not because they came to some realization but because praising Brady gives them a chance to take a shot at BB.

BB doesn't give media the access like others do so he is going get his lumps. If he sat down regularly with Peter King like Arians does. or Andy Reid does he wouldn't be given this grief.

Tony Dungy didn't win any SB's without Peyton Manning yet no one cares about it. Or Holmgren without Favre. or Jimmy Johnson without Aikman.

 

[SVN]

I am not convinced Rodgers is going to get cut or traded. But if this is the list of teams he might get traded to, the Pats have a good shot at getting him since Green Bay may want to trade him out of conference to avoid letting him go coming back to bite them for the playoffs.

So belichick is going to trade for rodgers who constantly talks way more than he should about coaching and playcalling in the media . Yeah sure.

 

[jmt57]

From Green Bay's point of view I cannot make a case for trading Rodgers - even though they just drafted a QB.

Trading Rodgers does free up $5.5 million in cap space for the Packers.

But it also means they use about one out of every six 2021 cap dollars on a player that is no longer there: $31.5 million in dead cap space on Rodgers.


It doesn't make sense. They can wait until next year, when a trade will net them $22.6 million in cap savings for 2022.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Bill has a terrible career record without Brady as his starting quarterback and until he can prove he can get the team winning consistently again the doubters will grow more and more each failing year and to be honest they have a right to be if the team continues to falter....Belichick needs to prove these guys wrong even if its just a wild card one and done run - they have the ammo to improve this offseason and there is absolutely no room for error - no more N'Keal Bust Harry wide receivers please