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Belichick's 'prove it' time table.

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BobDigital

Pro Bowl Player
The debate Between Brady and BB was never who was more important in my mind. That was always Brady. The question is, can each hold on to their GOAT legacy without the other? In my mind Brady has already proven he can be successful without BB, not that he needed to. Anyone know knows anything about football should know it isn't the coach that puts you over the top and wins the big games, that is the QB (when it happens repeatedly... with very few exceptions). While winning a super bowl would be nice, making the final 4 is good enough considering his age and where he is in his career. He should have proven to everyone now that he isn't just a product of BB. Not that he ever was. But anyone who denies it now looks foolish.

It is also true that adding a QB does more to instantly impact a team than adding a coach. Coaches take time to build their program, and the Pats are definitely in a rebuild right now. So the question is, how long does Bill have to turn this Pats team around and what would qualify him as proving that he is rightfully considered the GOAT coach without Brady. People talk about winning SBs, but that is really hard. Particular if you don't have a great QB/coach combo like KC does right now. But there must be some kind of of threshold that we can use for BB. Here is mine and you can tell me what you think.

Year 1 - Nothing. You shouldn't expect anything from a coach year 1 in a rebuilding team. They had cap and QBs issues. This was a 'balance the books' year. I don't think it should be held against BB.
Year 2 - Make the playoffs. Perhaps not in the old 6 team format. But with 7 of 16 teams making the playoffs in the AFC, this should be expected. The Pats have now worked out any cap issues, have had their bridge year and are now prepared to implement what they discovered some of their needs to be. Anything short of making it in should be considered a disappointment for the GOAT coach. Even if he is blown out round 1 that would be fine.
Year 3 - Make it too the division round. At this point you should have found your QB, got the talent and scheme infused. Have sorted out any coaching issues you have, and even if some left your contingencies should be in place to cover it. Ideally by this time you have your QB in year 2-3 and they are now able to make the push to get you past round 1. Being bumped off in round 1 is generally not acceptable at this point anymore, though in some weird cases it might be, if the team that beats you ends up representing the conference or something. But if that happens you need to at least not get blown off the field.
Year 4 - Make the conference championship game. After 4 years of rebuilding there is no excuse for a great coach to not sniff the CCG once in that time. An alternative is to make the final 8, if the team that beats you wins the conference.
Year 5 - Make the final 4. No more excuses. Doesn't matter who you play. You are now 5 years in and your team should be built and ready to beat anyone but the first seed, assuming you didn't claim it. Your seed should be high enough that you can avoid playing the harder teams and so you should not be tripped up. No more excuses. Make it now.

That is how i see it with BB. Injuries of course can derail things, but after 5 years without Brady if we don't see the final 4, it more than fair to question the legacy of Bill as the 'GOAT'. How would you measure it though?
 

Patriot Missile

Pro Bowl Player
Pretty reasonable except at the very start of the YEAR 3 take is the Qb. “Should have found” has put a lot of good coaches on the unemployment line. Pats have been fortunate, we’ll see if they can do it again.
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
Bill is GOAT coach without a doubt and I’m trying to keep that separate from Bill the GM but it’s getting difficult to do.

Pats are right now almost exactly what the Buffalo Bills were 3 seasons ago and Pats have a better coach. Look at them now. No reason why we can’t become a contender in that same timeframe like they did. Bill is on the clock.
 

PATSYLICIOUS

Pro Bowl Player
In this league built towards weaker teams being in position to turn things around, id say 3 years is sufficient to build a contender. If we are not contending by 2023 it would look bad on bb imo. Still the goat but itll be very tough at that point to counter the “what is he without brady” argument.
 

farn

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BB’s proven everything he ever had to prove years ago. Every success forward is gravy. To suggest other great coaches aren’t linked to great QB play is way off.

He’s the best. It’s just that the best isn’t good enough for the modern Patriots fan.
 
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PatsFanInVa

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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Pats had a division-winning record in the right division :D. Then again, if you're the 08 Pats, 11-5 is a dollar short.

Re: the 5-year plan, wow. Talk about coming down to earth. I'd argue that you're counting on this being extremely stepwise. It's the logical way to think of it going, but after a few tastes of that style of trying to build up from the plateau to the mountaintop, we most recently showed that you can just go there if all the stars align (2001), then stay there because you're just rude like that. But I wouldn't argue you're wrong in the sense of an over-under. If it all happened next year, the BB fans could say "Now, mothrafrocker." But on the other hand, this is the more likely scenario... and MAN, what pain it was over the last 20 years, when we went 5 years between SB appearances! Wait, I mean that 1 time.

One day Pats fans will call 2020 that one weird year when BB had a losing record, right after all of these "perfect storm" factors hit, and will agree that any other team with this roster would have been 2-14 or whatever... or else we'll all say this was the beginning of becoming the NE JAGs, emphasis on NE, as in NEbody can play here. I sincerely hope we're looking at that anomaly in BB's timeline to date :D
 

TheRainMaker

I'm getting my res at Dorsia
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So if 2000 was the "reset" and Bill was reason for their turnaround in 2001, he should have no problem getting them to at least the divisional round next year. He's got plenty of cap space and there are veteran QB's available for trade. If Bill doesn't get them to at least a Wildcard next year, that's a very bad look for him.
 

p8ryts

In the Starting Line-Up
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
BB’s proven everything he ever had to prove years ago. Everything success forward is gravy. To suggest other great coaches aren’t linked to great QB play is way off.

He’s the best. It’s just that the best isn’t good enough for the modern Patriots fan.
I am just so sick of this Brady/Belichick story line. I know there are many that feel like you and I but so many people have turned it into an either or. It’s making it very difficult to appreciate what’s happening with TB12 and what we can look forward to with BB. I’m excited about free agency and the draft and training camp and what our next version will be. I don’t want to spend any more time adding up fictitious gotchas.
 

amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
So if 2000 was the "reset" and Bill was reason for their turnaround in 2001, he should have no problem getting them to at least the divisional round next year. He's got plenty of cap space and there are veteran QB's available for trade. If Bill doesn't get them to at least a Wildcard next year, that's a very bad look for him.
Honestly I see us finishing 3rd in the division again. And if the Jets land Watson then we may be last ...
 

TheRainMaker

I'm getting my res at Dorsia
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Honestly I see us finishing 3rd in the division again. And if the Jets land Watson then we may be last ...
Yes. It all depends on the QB situation. I would be shocked if Watson really wants to go to the Jets. If so and the Bill can't land a QB, they'll finish in last place.
 

ashley1992

Moderator
Staff member
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They are both the GOATS in my opinion but does anyone think another coach could have won 7 games with our team this year with the talent we had. I would be shocked if any other coach wins 2 games.
Tom, no need to elaborate how important he is/was.
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
Yes because I think a different coach moves off of Newton. Bill had some crazy loyalty to him that defies logic.
Also our losses to Denver, Houston and the Niners were due to coaching primarily.
That says a lot more about our backups than it does about Newton or Bill. Nothing I’ve seen from Stidham makes me think Bill is wrong here. He’s not a promising kid with upside he’s much more likely a non prospect that doesn’t belong in the league. And for a 4th round pick that wasn’t that great in college- that isn’t unusual.

Nothing to do with loyalty and everything to do with best chance to win on any Sunday.
 

amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
That says a lot more about our backups than it does about Newton or Bill.
It was not a good coaching year for Bill at all. He had several head scratching challenges, the team was for the most part awful situationally, game planning vs bad teams was terrible, he did nothing at Qb despite Cam being putrid. If you take out the awful Jets we had 5 wins.
 

KontradictioN

Probably the nicest guy on the forum
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Bill is always going to be the GOAT HC. He gets that designation through Super Bowl W’s, his meticulous preparation, the culture he instills within the organization, and how he maximizes the talent he has. He won’t lose that based on what Brady has done.

Bill the GM is a mixed bag. 2021 will be his ultimate prove-it year. He’s shed Caserio in the offseason, has a ton of cap room, and has the highest pick in each round that he’s had since 2008 (Mayo) and 2009. If this team isn’t back in the playoffs next season, it will be a massive failure on his record.
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
It was not a good coaching year for Bill at all. He had several head scratching challenges, the team was for the most part awful situationally, game planning vs bad teams was terrible. If you take out the awful Jets we had 5 wins.
Put McDaniels or any other lesser coach in as HC and I doubt they win more than a game in 2020.

Wasn’t a great year by Bill but I thought overall he did all right with what he had. The team was competitive more often than not and to be honest they had no business even winning 7 games. I expect better next season.
 

amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
Put McDaniels or any other lesser coach in as HC and I doubt they win more than a game in 2020.

Wasn’t a great year by Bill but I thought overall he did all right with what he had. The team was competitive more often than not and to be honest they had no business even winning 7 games. I expect better next season.
An offensive minded HC like Reid or Payton probably get 7 wins or more.
 

TheRainMaker

I'm getting my res at Dorsia
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They are both the GOATS in my opinion but does anyone think another coach could have won 7 games with our team this year with the talent we had. I would be shocked if any other coach wins 2 games.
These are the players Bill hand picked and wanted to roll with. So basically you're saying Bill didn't do a good job as GM?
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
Bill is always going to be the GOAT HC. He gets that designation through Super Bowl W’s, his meticulous preparation, the culture he instills within the organization, and how he maximizes the talent he has. He won’t lose that based on what Brady has done.

Bill the GM is a mixed bag. 2021 will be his ultimate prove-it year. He’s shed Caserio in the offseason, has a ton of cap room, and has the highest pick in each round that he’s had since 2008 (Mayo) and 2009. If this team isn’t back in the playoffs next season, it will be a massive failure on his record.
The Bills built a contender in 3 seasons starting basically from where we are now. Good running game, good OL, not bad in the secondary, weak up front on defense, weak in the passing game and a QB with no long term future.

Dunno if we’ll ever win a SB again but don’t see why Bill shouldn’t be able to duplicate what the Bills have done in that same time frame.
 
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